Socialism>>>Facism

Even if it's true what John McCain says about Obama's economic policy I think it'll be a hell of a lot better than what we've had the last 8 years. We had fascism for the last 8 years, and, Bush, really didn't help much for having the same doctoral tendencies as Hitler did.

Those saying that Obama is a socialist really need to lighten up and give him a chance. He hasn't even taken office yet.

Not sure what the thread title is supposed to mean, but I think there is a better one to reflect what your OP is actually about.

What I'm saying in not so many words is that even if Obama's policies were at their best, socialism, that they are better than what we've had for the last 8 years. Now that Bush is out of office we can compare him to other leaders of the past, and, I choose to compare him to Hitler.

I have nothing to say about Bush or Obama - not my presidents. However just to be fair - fascism was in Italy. In Nazi Germany - national-socialism. Still, i personally see no fascism in US, nor national-socialism. But if you feel that there are parallels to be drawn - i wonder if you compare Bush to Mussolini or declare him socialist (national, of course)?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Bush is pretty fascist. He was doing away with a lot of liberal policies. He didn't care much for gay rights, and, he didn't care much for abortion. He was inspiring the bigoted core of his base. And to make matters worse, he was energizing his base by giving them ammo, by saying, that the terrorists in the world were only Muslim, when this is not the case. He didn't make an effort to really explain the terrorism problem well and as a result he has caused a lot of discrimination against the people of Islam.

I think you will notice the amount of fascist like qualities Bush had after Obama is President for a while. You will wonder how we could ever let someone like Bush, who, nearly destroyed the constitution, into office.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Facism was in Germany too. The "socialism" in National Socialism had nothing to do with actually being socialist. Especially seeing as the german Nazi party hated anything that resembled communism.

The National Socialist party was formed, originally, to unite the working class of the German nation, so at it's birth it had some socialist tendencies.

However, with the rise of Hittler, Himmler and the gang, it was taken over and became extremely right wing and very quickly lost any notion of socialism and closer resembled facism than anything else.

reply to post by stumason


Who do you think Bush is more closer matched to?

Hitler, or Mussolini?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Neither.

Hitler was quite a politician, at least in the beggining. He was a good orator and, for the most part, a capable leader.

Mussolini I don't know much about, but he too seems to have been someone who could stir the masses with his speeches and had some element of leadership.

Bush is a moron.

He can't string together anything close to a stirring speach, would have trouble finding his own arse with a map and has displayed a woeful lack of leadership on more than one occasion.

[edit on 7/11/08 by stumason]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
What I'm saying in not so many words is that even if Obama's policies were at their best, socialism, that they are better than what we've had for the last 8 years.

Ok I see.

Well Stumason pretty much said what I would about Socialism and Fascism in relation to what you said.

I do not think Obama's plans makes him a socialist (and I agree more with socialism), as he still supports our capitalist engine.

Now that Bush is out of office we can compare him to other leaders of the past, and, I choose to compare him to Hitler.

I would not say Bush was on the level of Hitler, in any respect really.

Bush I would say has been more indirectly involved in the whole process. I think he qualifies to be prisoned for war crimes, but I don't think he is the evil mastermind that Hitler was. I do think there were a couple in Bush's Administration though

[edit on 7-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

We have shifted so far to the right ... that everything looks leftist.

Richard Nixon would be considered a "liberal" (like there is something wrong with it). This process has been done over so many years that you really don't see it, it's indistinguishable.

If you watch a lot of TV or are on the internet a lot you won't notice it. It's time to turn off the TV and the Internet and thing for awhile...

At this point I'd gladly vote for a 1972 Republican. Really!

Fascism is a form of Socialism.

Now you know why so many clamor the two parties are seldom different.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Mussolini... who should know said:

...Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....

Also:

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power."

Ergo Fascism is antithetical to socialism and could also be described as predatory capitalism.

With Bush being a third generation Nazi and his VP (possibly the son of Satan) Cheney, doesn't give much room for discussion! Just waiting for the next puppet to lead the masses.

Mild fascism is indeed what we have degenerated into. The quotes by Mussolini above are very instructive.

The problem is that we have been trained to believe that Fascism and Communism/Socialism are polar opposites, that there is a point in between them which is ideal. They are, in fact, dissimilar in economic structure but equally tyrannical. Both concepts are fundamentally Statism.

The sad reality is that Obama and the Democrat congress, if they so desire, can build on Bush's neo-fascism and the greater state control of our economy and shift us toward socialism much more easily than if we were in a more free state when they took office. In other words, the most important element in our downfall is the degree of government control over our lives, which can be used by whoever is in office to promote their particular flavor of tyranny.

LOL at Obama being a socialist. That's so ridiculous. I wish people who do say that would look at his policy plans. And yes at least give him a chance.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by LittlePinky82]

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

 

Facism was in Germany too. The "socialism" in National Socialism had nothing to do with actually being socialist. Especially seeing as the german Nazi party hated anything that resembled communism.

The National Socialist party was formed, originally, to unite the working class of the German nation, so at it's birth it had some socialist tendencies.

However, with the rise of Hittler, Himmler and the gang, it was taken over and became extremely right wing and very quickly lost any notion of socialism and closer resembled facism than anything else.

Socialism is about helping everyone not just one particular group of people like the Nazi's. Socialism also works towards ending the caste system, racism etc. They never were socialist in the first place.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Fascism is a form of Socialism.

Now you know why so many clamor the two parties are seldom different.

You're kidding right? Fascism is a form of socialism? LOL! How in all things holy do you figure that one out?

Originally posted by LittlePinky82

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Fascism is a form of Socialism.

Now you know why so many clamor the two parties are seldom different.

You're kidding right? Fascism is a form of socialism? LOL! How in all things holy do you figure that one out?

Rockpuck obviously got his definitions from the GOP Dictionary by Karl Rove. Fascism is, and always was, an alliance of the corporate with the state. Fascism appears in various degrees, one of them fairly obvious in the GOP. It will be interesting to see how the fascist element of the GOP manages to crush the Ron Paul wing.

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

Mussolini... who should know said:

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power."

It sure looks like we could be headed for fascism then. The merger of state and corporate power is happening. Is anyone concerned, not about the global economy, but about the current situation leading to fascism.

Here's a recent thread about the rise in fascism in Europe.

[edit on 25-3-2009 by Maya00a]

reply to post by LittlePinky82


I made this thread when I was ignorant.

I didn't know better.

I agree, socialism is just another form of fascism. If anything I was talking about true socialism which is entirely impossible.