Ma Deuce deemed "irreplaceable"

That's right, the military has given up trying to replace the .50 Cal M2 heavy machine gun and has instead opted to upgrade it with the latest M2E2 version.

A gun that first entered service in 1921, and we still can't better it today, what an incredible weapon.

www.strategypage.com...

The U.S. Army has given up on getting a replacement for the nearly century old M2 .50 caliber (12.7mm) machine-gun. At least not anytime soon. Many of the current ones are wearing out, so the army is replacing over 80 percent of its 36,600 M2 machine-guns in the next five years, with new M2s. Efforts to develop a replacement for the M2 have failed so far.

For example, three years ago, field testing of the XM-312, the chief contender to replace the M-2, began, in the United States and overseas. Then, nothing. That's because the test results were not encouraging, the biggest shortcoming being the low rate of fire (about 260 rounds per minute). This is about half the rate of the M2, and was believed adequate for the 25mm smart shells the XM312 was originally designed for (as the XM307). But for 12.7mm bullets, it didn't impress the troops. There were some reliability problems (the M2 has one jam per 10,000 rounds), which were believed fixable. The rate-of-fire issue, however, has proved to be more difficult. Meanwhile, a new upgrade for the M2 has been fielded, and Ma Deuce still rules the battlefield.

The new M2E2 has a quick change barrel, flash hider and lot of small improvements. It is much in demand.

The m-2 is so devastating that it might not ever get replaced. Not until there is no more war.

It is capable of numerous feats.

-Shooting down aircraft.
-Destroying armored vehicles. (and regular vehicles)
-Destroying buildings.
-Destroying ships.
-Killing people.


You could probably mount one on a satellite, and shoot down ICBM's, UFO's, and "other" spacecraft.

Heck you might be able to shoot down a small asteroid with it.

John Browning's designs, were hundreds of years ahead of everything else at the time.

in vietnam Carlos Hathcock mounted a scope on jeep a mounted version and used it as a bizare sniper rifle as its possible to squeeze off 1 round at a time with practice and has accuracy power and range

then if all hell breaks loose you can just hold down the triggers and let rip

Now that IS interesting. At last there is somebody in the Pentagon who has the brainpower to listen to the end users - the guys on the ground.

Now, if only a certain Kord Lover would take note!

No surprise, really. The M2 is pretty much the AK47 of heavy MGs - Durable, powerful, versetile and completely irreplacable.

Originally posted by fritz

Now, if only a certain Kord Lover would take note!

[sarcasm]How ever could you say such a thing?! Surely you know that the kord is the most impressive weapon in the world and should replace the M2? [/sarcasm]

For those of you not privvy to the above, see,

The worlds longest debate about the .50

Originally posted by PaddyInf [sarcasm] How ever could you say such a thing?! Surely you know that the kord is the most impressive weapon in the world and should replace the M2? [/sarcasm]

Good point, well presented Paddy!

Funny thing is tho', I am left wondering why the Kord didn't make the trials as a possible replacement.

Was it simply because it was crap?

If people haven’t been watching the news lately, what Pentagon doing is tightening its belt by cutting every program they can because America is flat broke.

Congress just canceled the absolutely vital BASIC program, (Broad Area Surveillance Intelligence Capability), because an extra $ billion is just not there to fund it, so who cares about some machine gun.

American government is bankrupt, American economy and financial institutions are bankrupt, and as usual it’s the taxpayers that are left to foot the bills, if they are not being evicted at the time.

As to the “irreplaceable” M2, one only has to look at this page and think for them selves;

world.guns.ru...

John Browning testing his prototype .50 caliber heavy machine gun, circa 1919

M2 literally uses RIVETS to hold its housing together. Rivets in 21st century, think about it. The age of steam engines, magic of electricity, etc.

The only other MG I know of that uses rivets is the M240, and it shows in its massive weight.

This is how simple it really is

/Recognizing the need to replace the obsolete 12.7mm Browning M2HB machine guns, during the early 1980s the CIS (now Singapore Technologies Kinetics / STK) company began to develop a new heavy machine gun. In this development CIS designers closely followed the path set by the unsuccessful American “Dover Devil GPHMG” programme, and tried to create a modular weapon better suited to modern tactical doctrines and production techniques. It seems that the Singaporean engineers succeeded in this effort, as in 1988 CIS introduced a new 12.7mm machine gun, simply designated “CIS 50MG”./

world.guns.ru...

Singapore has a better .50 cal the US, and had it since the 80s, because even they know all to well how obsolete M2 is.

In the world of heavy MGs, Russian 14.5mm is still the undisputed king.

world.guns.ru...

Simply blows .50 cal out of the water.

Chinese made a modern design called QJG 02G.

14.5mm is so devastating that Fabrique Nationale, (the same Belgium company that makes MGs for US Armed Forces), came up with their own 15.5X115 caliber, and the FN BRG-15 heavy MG, but for the lack of funds abandoned it in the early 90s,


/First announced in october 1983, the BRG-15 was designed to replace aged Browning M2HB .50 cal (12.7mm) heavy machineguns, and was, probably, the most powerful machine gun ever made, outperforming even Soviet KPV 14.7mm. The BRG-15 could pierce 10mm of steel armour at 30 degrees at the distance of 1350 meters, or, in other words, capable to defeat armour of almost any APC at the distances of 1000 meters and beyond./

world.guns.ru...

Belgians politely referring to M2 as “aging”, LOL!

In comparison, M2 is a 19th century joke, a relic that belongs in the MUSEUM!

XM312 flopped because of its low fire rate, high cost and low reliability, and that’s what happed to all floating barrel designs through out history of weapon design.

The way this is going, our troops will be using the M2 in the age of robots and laser blasters when the aliens finally invade! LOL!

Hey Optimus Prime, the Decepticons are coming, here’s your trusty M2! ROLF!!!

My dad was in WWII and was a machine gunner (M1917 I think).

However, he has always spoken very highly of the "Ma deuce" for when the going got tough.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Good design, refined over a century of use and testing with feedback from combat troops has left nothing but the essential weapon.

But then again I have a picture of a minigun and it looks way cooler. And has bigger numbers next to it.

It's one of those things where the original is good, though perhaps not optimal, but good enough that no plausible weapon can improve on it's performance enough to warrant replacing it.

As a vehicle weapon, it's nearly perfect. weigh isn't too much of an issue, it fires fast, has decent accuracy, and is reliable. It's a bit heavy for infantry use, but as the designers of it's intended replacement found, drastically cutting the weight means it's affected more by recoil.

within the constraints of the .50 BMG round, there just isn't the capability to increase performance over the M2 enough to warrant replacing it. It's like the M-16 in that respect (though it's record is far more satisfactory). There's all kinds of weapons that the DoD finds better than the M-16/M-4 series, but none of them meet the (somewhat draconian) requirements for improvement.

The M-2 ain't necessarily the perfect .50, but it's designers could be proud that it's damn well close enough.

One of if the the best MG ever put in warfare. On the ground it is not a gun you want to come against. Can mow down anything in its path. John Browning knew his stuff. The 1911 is still the M2 of most night stands in TX.

a reply to: mdiinican

The dover devil was a leap ahead in many ways and really didn't have recoil issues even while being both substantially lighter, cheaper, and much more versatile.

How much cheaper? In full production it would have been between 20% to 25% the price.

It also allowed at LEAST twice the ammunition on the mount without extra weight compared to an M2 with HALF the ammunition on the same mount.

Oh and if this mythical recoil issue existed do you think they would have been able to make and successfully use modular conversions that allowed you to fire 12.7x108 14.5 kpv and even 20mm Vulcan rounds out of it?

Oh and BTW, it could use ANY of these much more powerful rounds successfully off the same tripod as the M2 barely works off of!

Like it's little brother the XM248 it really was quite a bit better and lighter than what we're using now.

Honestly the XM248 and the dover devil could have given us much better weapons that also would have cost a fraction of what we pay now for heavier, less durable, and worse weapons now.