Obama (Barry Soetoro)Has Duel Citizenship?

Here are excerpts from an article that was published on February 29, 2008, that focused on the question of John McCain's citizenship. What it reports is quite on-topic and central to what this thread is about, "Is Senator Barack Obama eligible to become President of the United States?"

As I have said many times now, in this thread and others, there has never been a legal definition of what "natural born", in the context of the US Constitution, means. It doesn't exist. There are only laws that define who shall be nationals, citizens, and naturalized citizens. None that say who shall be "natural born" citizens; at least not anymore.

In common usage, there exists more than one meaning that is associated with the term "natural born". And none of the definitions are legally binding.

Three examples from the article that express how the term's meaning has evolved over time. Here, the first interpretation focuses on loyalty to the US by a citizen who would be POTUS (Of course birth doesn't guarantee loyalty to anything, but that's for another discussion.):

1.

But is John McCain a natural born citizen? The Constitution does not define the term further, and legal scholars say the notes of the Constitution's drafters shed little light on what they meant. It seems clear only that the founders wanted to make certain that whoever was president would be loyal to the U.S. alone and not to some other country. But the term "natural born citizen," many scholars say, was not in common use at the time the Constitution was written.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Another interesting one. A law existed in the year 1790 that defined, and at one time guaranteed "natural born" status to those born outside the US:

2.

Sen. McCain's supporters draw some comfort from a law passed in 1790 by the first Congress. It provided that the children of US citizens born outside the US "shall be considered as natural born citizens." The law is no longer in effect, but it provides some guidance on what the founders had in mind at the time of the Constitution.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Why was this law of 1790 revoked? A close reading of the law reveals that it was a race based law. That any alien that might qualify for natural born status has to be "a free white person". So that might have something to do with the law eventually being annulled. And so a law that clearly defined who shall be natural born citizens has not been seen since. First Congress. Sess. II. Ch. 4. 1790. (Page Image 103 - 104)

The question has to be asked: In the context of the US Constitution, was "natural born" also a reference to free Whites as defined in the 1790 law? Again, the Constitution does not define the term "natural born", so we may never know the answer to that question.

Yet another definition follows. This one completely disregards the ideas of loyalty and that one has to be born within US borders to be considered "natural born". Rather focuses on natural born citizenship being the natural result of those born to "parents" who are citizens of the US. As if to say that law has nothing to do with one becoming a citizen of the US, but rather birth to US "parents" does. (Does birth to "parents" refer to one parent and two parents, or only two parents being US citizens? Hard to tell.)

3.

Sen. McCain has the support of Ted Olson, the former U.S. solicitor general. "The plain meaning of 'natural born citizen' includes persons who become citizens of this nation 'naturally,' that is, by virtue of their birth to parents who are citizens, particularly when the birth takes place on territory occupied and controlled by the United States, in Senator McCain's case, a U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone," Olson says in a statement. But that is by no means a universally held view.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Each attempted definition brings with it some difference that make it incompatible with other understandings of what "natural born" means in the context of the Constitution. And each bears with it a crippling caveat. Those caveats are underlined in each of the previously cited references. The first is the claim that "natural born" was not a term that was in common usage at the time the Constitution was written. If the authors were not sure what "natural born" means, how can we be sure? They didn't even include a legally binding definition! The second definition bears the caveat of it being a law and definition that is no longer in effect; presumably for good reason. The third definition's caveat is that it is not universal in meaning.

Another interesting fact is, the United States has never held sovereignty over the Canal Zone. This fact muddies the waters when trying to come to an understanding that those born in the Canal Zone, like Senator McCain was are natural born citizens. Mainly because some US military installations are not under the jurisdiction of the United States; which the 14th Amendment of the Constitution addresses:

...many legal scholars say the Canal Zone never was sovereign U.S. territory. In a February 1978 speech to the nation on the Panama Canal Treaty, heavily vetted by government lawyers, President Carter said, "We have never had sovereignty over it. We have only had the right to use it. The US Supreme Court and previous American presidents have repeatedly acknowledged the sovereignty of Panama over the Canal Zone."

www.msnbc.msn.com...

So is John McCain a natural born citizen? Still a mystery. Mainly because no law replaced the 1790 law that defined the term "natural born".

Is Senator Barack Obama a natural born citizen? Was he a natural born citizen, who later became naturalized? Still a mystery. Mainly because some claim that he was born in Kenya. And because no law replaced the 1790 law that defined the term "natural born".

Both Senators, if all documents are in proper order, are citizens of the US under US CODE: Title 8, 1401 and 1403. The problem is that nothing indicates that they shall be natural born citizens. Only assumptions have been made about that issue..

Has the Supreme Court ever resolved the issue? Nope. But it did make mention of "natural born" at least once:

In 1964, the Supreme Court seemed to say, without deciding, that "natural born" meant born inside the United States. In an opinion on an unrelated issue, the court observed, "The rights of citizenship of the native born and of the naturalized person are of the same dignity and are coextensive. The only difference drawn by the Constitution is that only the 'natural born' citizen is eligible to be President." But that language is not legally binding, and the Supreme Court has never ruled on what "natural born" means.

www.msnbc.msn.com...
SCOTUS: Schneider v. Rusk (No. 368)

So why this post? To show that if Obama is able to prove that he is a citizen of the US, there will still be the question of whether he has natural born status, thereby satisfying his eligibility to become POTUS.

Someone like Obama who as a child never renounced his US citizenship, should have been able to renew citizenship without taking on naturalized status. Which would mean that both Obama and McCain would share the same kind of citizenship. They are both citizens, but not naturalized citizens.

If this case goes to Supreme Court of the United States and a ruling is made, the outcome could affect the candidacy of both McCain and Obama. And future would-be presidents.

So while Berg wants to know the truth about Obama's eligibility, he has opened a Pandora's box of possibility. It is possible that he may cost Obama his campaign and a chance at being president. In the long run, though, if he intends to go the distance to SCOTUS, if necessary, he may cost John McCain his campaign and chance at the presidency as well.

Many folks have said that if only Obama would just show his long form birth certificate, then no harm done if it says that he was born in Hawaii. That if only Berg could see that document, things would be settled. Well, the fact of the matter is that Berg doesn't have the authority to determine who is eligible to be POTUS. Judges and courts may have a hard time justifying that they do have authority, if they choose to do such a thing. What laws will back up their decision?

Cautiously, it seems like judges and courts only have authority to determine who is NOT eligible to be POTUS. And it would seem that cases where naturalized citizenship would be a factor would be the most clear cut.

Some folks may blame Obama for a possible future constitutional crisis, other may blame Berg, but the truth is that the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of those who vaguely propositioned "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President", and then signed it into law.

I just found out that a ruling by the judge on this case has been made.

Please see:

Lawsuit Against Obama Dismissed in Philadelphia Federal Court

yeah i heard a rumor the Judge was suppose to rule friday or as late as monday looks like Berg is appealing to the SCOTUS so its still not over. and the Judge didn't rule on the Complaints or Evidence against Obama he just ruled basically that no one has standing to Sue to determine a candidates eligiblity.

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
yeah i heard a rumor the Judge was suppose to rule friday or as late as monday looks like Berg is appealing to the SCOTUS so its still not over.

Yes thats just it... you've been hearing rumors. thanks for going on and in this thread providing us with nothing but hearsay, rightwing slanted or unofficial sources and little technicalities. Oh yes and ofcourse youv been taking burgs word for it.... blinded by partisanship....

On another note I would like to make reference to MissysWorld's lady liberty and my lady liberty... its appears that mine is standing strong, though missys is hates it in there thats what happens when you fill lady liberty with a bunch of ignorance and misjudgement, she gets depressed..

[edit on 25-10-2008 by southern_Guardian]

Come on you guys! This is ATS! You ask how the fed hasn't told him he can't run? And think that the "press" would be interested in the fact that he has shown no birth certificate? Did you all forget that the corporate controlled media, is corporate controlled? And no truth ever comes out there? Why do you think this website is here? Did you forget that every level of government is working together to destroy the people, and the country? And there may be no requirement for a birth certificate, but if one, just one person asks for it, it should be shown to the world, that would be the right, and decent thing to do. A Certificate of Live Birth, is not a Birth Certificate. If you take a certificate of live birth somewhere where they need a birth certificate, they will kick you out the door, and tell you to come back with a real, full birth certificate.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
yeah i heard a rumor the Judge was suppose to rule friday or as late as monday looks like Berg is appealing to the SCOTUS so its still not over.

Yes thats just it... you've been hearing rumors.

thanks for going on and in this thread providing us with nothing but hearsay, rightwing slanted or unofficial sources and little technicalities. Oh yes and ofcourse youv been taking burgs word for it.... blinded by partisanship....

On another note I would like to make reference to MissysWorld's lady liberty and my lady liberty... its appears that mine is standing strong, though missys is hates it in there

thats what happens when you fill lady liberty with a bunch of ignorance and misjudgement, she gets depressed..

[edit on 25-10-2008 by southern_Guardian]

On another note I would like to make reference to MissysWorld's lady liberty and my lady liberty... its appears that mine is standing strong, though missys is hates it in there

thats what happens when you fill lady liberty with a bunch of ignorance and misjudgement, she gets depressed..

I would address that comment, but I find it very difficult at this time, to "dumb down" myself to your level. I'll have a better response after 4 years of "Change", and am hoping I have more to say than just
"Yes we can"...

[edit on 8-11-2008 by MissysWorld]

reply to post by MissysWorld


cdn.factcheck.org...

www.factcheck.org...

wut?

It is documented form Indonesian records. His school records, and parents' divorce records. Barry is in big trouble, and you will hear about it very soon when the SCOTUS has their conference. His real name is Barry Soetoro, and his charges will be falsifying an official document, swearing to the Illinois Bar Exam that he has never lived under any other name than "Barack Obama," Running for President when not an American Natural Born Citizen, and running for Senate when he's not EVEN a citizen.
PLus, he's very involved in the Blago Governate mess, so that "Obama smile and charm" won't save him this time.

Go to dictionary.com

Duel Citizenship should be Dual Citizenship
and that means BO is a British/Kenyan/Indonesian
usurper president without legal standing since he is not
"Natural Born" as required by the constitution.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Go to dictionary.com

Duel Citizenship should be Dual Citizenship
and that means BO is a British/Kenyan/Indonesian
usurper president without legal standing since he is not
"Natural Born" as required by the constitution.

Yes, Obama was born a duel citizen, not a natural born citizen. A natural born citizen is born with two Amercican citizens as parents.

This is why the Founders of this country had to grandfather themselves in because they were not natural born citizens.

There's no legal person named Barack Obama. The person in the White House is named Barry Soetoro.

His name was legally changed when he was adopted in Indonesia. Barry Soetoro never legally changed his name back to Barack Obama.

This is why he has sealed his Indonesia adoption records and his passports.

He most likely travelled to places like Pakistan as Barry Soetoro a citizen of Indonesia.

Here's some more info:

Thank you for taking the time to review the documentation relevant to the Constitutional legitimacy of the presidency Barack Obama. There have been various problems with the vetting of Mr. Obama throughout the campaign and the present. I’d like to take the opportunity to highlight the most pertinent and alarming issues that have been clearly revealed. I’m sure you will agree that this information must be further investigated promptly before any damage is done to the United States and its citizens beyond the Constitutional compromises that currently exist. Most interesting, though, is the fact that Mr. Obama has not simply ordered the original vault copy of his birth certificate to be sealed and chosen to retain three (3) law firms to defend the various cases spending a reported $800,000 (of whose money?). If Mr. Obama has nothing to hide, then why fight the more than 42 cases in federal courts alone (according to Justia) and similar number in state courts of which the merits are well-founded and substantiated through factual evidence, state and federal statutes, and international laws? Main issue is that the state of HI, according to statue 338 allows Foreign born children of Hawaiian residents to obtain Hawaiian birth certificates and obtain them based on a statement of one relative only. There is plenty of evidence of Mr. Obama being born in Kenya and obtaining his Hawaiian birth certificate based on a statement of his grandparent only, who simply didn’t want to deal with immigration and not based on any records from any hospitals. Extensive searches in the State of Hawaii showed no birthing records for his mother [Stanley] Ann Dunham in any hospital in Hawaii.

educate-yourself.org...

This is troubling to me because in order for Barry Soetoro to legally become Barack Obama he would have to become a naturalized citizen.

Barry Soetoro just decided to start calling himself Barack Obama but this is illegal because Barry Soetoro would have to legally change his name to Barack Obama and there's no evidence that this occured. So the person in the White House is a citizen of Indonesia named Barry Soetoro.

There are serious concerns about Mr. Obama’s identity and financial dealings. I have obtained a list of some 100 addresses under the name of Barack Obama (and similar spellings). These addresses are attached to different social security numbers. As you know the first three digits in a social security number signify the state. Those were issued all over the country. One of his social security numbers, that was used while he was a law student at Harvard and attached to his address in Sommervile MA, was issued in Ct and attached to a holder of this social security number , that is 118 years old. Clearly no human being can legally have dozens of different social security numbers and Soetoro/Obama is not a 118 years old. I believe there is evidence of massive fraud and massive financial fraud. I believe those units of Name/ss number/ addresses were used to fraction large campaign contributions and other transactions. There is evidence of campaign contributions coming from countries like Libya, Uganda, Palestinian authority and Saudi Arabia. Mr. Obama’s grandmother, Ms. Madelyn Dunham worked as a volunteer in probate department of the Oahu Circuit court and had access to the Social security numbers of the deceased individuals, which might explain the findings. Mr. Obama’s mother Ann Dunham, according to databases had numerous aliases and at least two social security numbers.

This is very troubling to me.

He had all of these different addresses and social security numbers under the non existent person Barack Obama. Barry Soetoro is a citizen of Indonesia.




[edit on 13-9-2009 by Matrix Rising]

Does'nt most Jews living in the US have dual citizenship?

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Is there a way to find out if he Legally changed his name back to Barack Obama? Are there - I don't know - federal?? - areas that would give or have this info?

I have also wondered if his name was ever legally changed from Barry Soetoro.



[edit on 13-9-2009 by mappam]

Originally posted by mappam
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

Is there a way to find out if he Legally changed his name back to Barack Obama? Are there - I don't know - federal?? - areas that would give or have this info?

I have also wondered if his name was ever legally changed from Barry Soetoro.



[edit on 13-9-2009 by mappam]

There would be records if Barry Soetoro legally switched his name to Barack Obama. This is because Barry Soetoro would have to become a naturalized citizen of America.

Barry didn't want to do this, so he just started calling himself Barack Obama. There's no legal person named Barack Obama. His name was legally changed to Barry Soetoro when he was adopted and he never legally changed his name to Barack Obama.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


How can this info be confirmed?

I guess that was my question above. You state this as fact but I can't figure out how to confirm that the name was/was not legally changed.

Is it Federal or by State or just where does one go to change a name?