They say... (an interesting conspiracy in religion)

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Some of you shock me with the weirdness of your questions on religion, sorry to say. Why would the Bible have to say God was better or best? In comparison to what would he be better than? What in the world are you talking about the category of four? There are about 100 different words that are synonyms for "good", is the bible suppose to list them all? No one can be better than God, but some might say you can be equal.



[edit on 16-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

Well, God in the bible didnt say it nor did Jesus say God was best or better, and it is maybe because it has to do with the overcome thing left for man. And Jesus was a man so the best and better than he had to have been working with since afterall the world is evil the which Jesus overcame. That leave just with a Jesus who overcame good too since he would not say he was good.

What is to overcome if you, a man, cant be good ever how Jesus mentioned? If you overcome the world (mentioned evil, correct?) as Jesus did, and you cant be good (since God is only good and Jesus words shall not pass away), then it only can mean you can become best or better inorder to overcome.

Make sense to me. By the way, if, say, 100 different words are all synonyms for good, it just means for good, not for best, not for better, and not for evil, which are each apart from each other no matter their synoyms. So it means it is still the category four (good, evil, best, better).

We go up or down from the word good still implies difference. And God is not implicated as best or better or evil for obvious reasons.

reply to post by Mabus


but your start point for the whole best better is about as tenable as a christian arguing christianity is right becasue it says so in the bible

probabily more so becasue we have to rely on sense and logic not ignore it

your using best better but not putting good in the correct place of the religeon your arguing against interms of god

if your start point is flawed eveything after it is equally flawed

god doesnt care about better or best he IS THE PINACLE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD there is no best better theres nothing above him so no need to say it

your chasing your own tail

long story short .. when a bunch of atheists are having to argue against your argument and stick up for religeon becasue your argumenst so fundamentally flawed its time to draw a line through it and pull a rethink

At the moment I am "me" and not you or god, I am whole.

Originally posted by panda319
Another point to add, sorry Mabus, I was agreeing with you until now.

Lucifer was cast into hell because he tried to be better than God. So, God did kind of make it clear who was best and better. There are a ton of other things you can easily use as contradictions to the bible though. I mean, it kind of produces its own hypocritical contradictions that you can just use. You don't even have to have originality, the bible fights itself.

Hello

I just wanted to say, he said "I shall rise above the stars of God and be like unto the most high". Never was it said, "I will be better then God". This is the same claim that Jesus of Nazareth made and is why he was called a blasphemer by the separatists according to the bible.

The reason God is the most high, is not because of heavenly heights, but because of ascension. Not astrial ascension, but physical ascension, that is descention through family line.

God is angry because he is the life of us. He is the personal one who carries us and is in the body, not out. People forget him, that when they look in the mirror they forget who they are and go running for things to worship, forgetting the creator who is self made using the dead and rising to life in each generation of man.

His laws are not hard. One original....don't die. Don't check out the knowledge of Good and Evil. Why? God is spirit. God dwells inside being breath (a hot blast) and "takes no pleasure in the death of sinners".

It is said in scripture that "God comes out of his place to judge the inhabitants of the earth". He comes out of the body 3 times. This happens because the last in the family line does not produce an heir, a new mansion that God alone builds thus causing the "abomination of desolation" by desolating the family line.

Isa 14:4 you shall lift up this proverb against the king of Babylon (means confusion, not an individual i.e. "he let's confusion run his life"), and say: How the exacter, the gold (life) gatherer, has ceased!
Isa 14:5 Jehovah has broken the rod of the wicked, the staff of rulers (chiefs meaning: Last descendant, Heir)
Isa 14:6 who struck the peoples in wrath, a blow without turning away, ruling the nations in anger, dealing out persecution without restraint.
Isa 14:7 All the earth is at rest, quiet; they break forth into singing.
Isa 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice over you; the cedars of Lebanon say, Since you have lain down, no one hewing will come up against us.
Isa 14:9 Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats (scape-goat=bear the sin in the wilderness=outside the body) of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.
Isa 14:10 All of them shall answer and say to you, Are you also made as weak as we? Are you likened to us?
Isa 14:11 Your majesty is lowered into Sheol; the noise of your harps. The maggot is spread under you; yea, the worms cover you.
Isa 14:12 Oh shining star, son of the morning, how you have fallen from the heavens (Haw-vah=to exist)! You weakening the nations (nations means kin=family), you are cut down to the ground.
Isa 14:13 For you have said In your heart, I will go up to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, and I will sit in the mount of meeting, in the sides of the north.
Isa 14:14 I will rise over the heights of the clouds; I will be compared to the Most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet you shall go down to Sheol, to the sides of the Pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see you shall stare and closely watch you, saying, Is this the man who made the earth tremble, shaking kingdoms,
Isa 14:17 making the world like a wilderness, and who tore down its cities; he did not open a house for his prisoners?
Isa 14:18 All kings of nations, all of them lie in glory, each man in his house.
Isa 14:19 But you are thrown from your grave like a despised branch, like the covering of the slain, those pierced by the sword, those who go down into the stones of the Pit, like a dead body trampled under foot.
Isa 14:20 You shall not be united with them in burial, because you ruined your land; you have slain your people; the seed of evildoers shall never be named.
Isa 14:21 Prepare for the slaughter of his sons, for the iniquity of their fathers; that they may not rise and possess the land and fill the face of the earth with cities.
Isa 14:22 For I will rise against them, says Jehovah of Hosts, and I will cut off the name and remnant, the son and grandson, from Babylon, declares Jehovah.
Isa 14:23 Also I will make it a possession of the hedgehog and pools of water; and I will sweep it with the broom of ruin, says Jehovah of Hosts.
Isa 14:24 Jehovah of Hosts has sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so it shall be; and as I have purposed, it shall rise up;
Isa 14:25 to break Assyria in My land, and trample him on My mountains. Then his yoke shall depart from them, and his burden shall depart from his shoulders.

People who are looking for an Anti-Christ are themselves an Anti-Christ in the shear light of not wanting themselves to bear such a burden, rather pointing the finger when "he" is found. Only he is not a he, but a spirit of which there are many. To lay down your life for the cross, is to lay down your life for a generation. Jesus says, "Who ever loves Mother and Father, Sister of Brother, friends more then me is not worth of me". Child is number 1.

As one must be born of "Water and Blood", because this is regeneration and a glorious new body....which is truth, so must one prepare their spirit in truth for the new generation. To put away those things which you want not your children to do, so that they may prosper and to have never been aware that those "things" existed.

As such, "The memory" of those sins are lost. The children don't learn, so the "Living God" forgets them, but remembers the sinner forgiving them, even, there own parents.

The "Living God" is among us every day, we don't recognize him/her, but he is here, not one can claim to be him for we are to "Love one another" and "Serve one another". He does not regard persons. This is not a contradiction, but a wrong perspective.

All are created equal, advantages and disadvantages to all. We need to stop thinking of the father as a being. He is being. He is just with himself. We forget "he is in judgment with us". How do you know justice without bearing justice? How do people think God is perfect? God is truth, there fore I know God had to experience everything in order to be God of everything. No other way, but truth. I can then trust the creator knowing spirit, the breath of God fills all lungs, being in all between the lungs (the cherebum of the ark whose wings flutter) and the heart (contents of the testimony) who joins the breath to the body making us alive.

[color=#FF0000]They Say"God is unfair",but I ask you, If God is in all, then is God unfair? Justice is perfection being level ground. Experience is Justice being known in the light.

Peace

Ok lets try something.

Imagine God, try to think clearly on your idea of God, visualize it in your mind, get comfortable with it.

Got it ? Ok good.

Now think of this, that image is wrong.

God cannot be defined as anything we can relate to within our universe. God is all these things and more, part of and outside of the boundaries of our understanding.

That is what the scriptures teach us.

Now religions try and get you to focus on the benign aspects of God, because those are the aspects they are supposedly trying to bring out in the world, but that's another quasi-mystical discussion for another time.

The idea of better or betterer I don't know where you got that, but I would suggest if you are actually interested in the subject of spirituality that you do a bit more research.

Hear this out:

Hell is a person who would behave hellishly. Whose will is hellish is hell (the person).

Heaven is a person who behaves heavenly. Whose will is heavenly is heaven (the person).

Heaven and hell arent hard to find.

You cant quench your burning will if it's either heaven or hell, but someone external can stop you from doing the hellishly or the heavenly, but can not stop you from being hell or heaven. Being and doing are seperate things.

There is no would-be evil, but there is would-be foes to each. The would-be foes would do evil toward you with the intent to make it known they are actually being evil toward you.

If you are in hell now, then it just means it seems someone is doing hellishly things toward you to make it hell toward you. In the bible, those "in" hell got removed. It is implying, in a layer, that persons are removed from being subjected to the persons who are hellishly. After removed from the hellish, as long as your name is found written in the book of life, you wont be dumped with the hellish into the lake of fire. The hellishly get put into the lake of fire with death (living and dieing) because the hellishly do not have their names written in the book of life since they will not overcome evil and can not overcome good, which is encasing them so that they are kept from doing any evil they would actually do toward another.

Satan overcame because his name was written in the book of life since says the fact he was given a new name away from Lucifer. Jesus gives a new name to who overcome, remember? See:

"Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

"Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

^^The first quote implies also for Lucifer who was given the name Satan. No where in the bible did Lucifer give himself the name Satan is implicating he was given a new name for overcoming.

The second quote can imply that Jesus' new name may in fact be both Satan (earthly) and Michael (heavenly).

Check it out:

Rev 12
7And there was war "in" heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more "in" heaven.

^^Neither prevailed each other and neither are "in" heaven (the person) can imply they are heaven and heavenly and earth and earthly. You'd have to be hellishly (the person) to be "in" heaven (the person). So Michael against the dragon only implies the heavenly against the earthly. Implying either rises up for different occasions. So in occastion Satan is seen risen up as Jesus new earthly name...and, in occasion, Michael is seen risen up as Jesus new heavenly name. Both are for a purpose you are to see why heaven and earth are mixing which = who and what paradise is.

So in conclusion: Heaven and earth dont prevail against each other so they do prevail being 'For' each other for paradise sake.

The funny thing is why do ppl still call out the name Jesus when he said he overcame the world and good since he isnt good either? He implied he has a new name, did he not, since he overcame? So instead of ppl wearing a claimed Jesus peice, they should wear a symbolically claimed Michael peice or a Satan peice, and not to worship them, but to symbolize they, wearing it, overcame evil (and the devil) and overcame good (and God).


Which of you wont admit Jesus overcame and so indeed has a new name? And how is it you, to whom it concerns, have not received his new name as I did? I am surely better standing than you who will not overcome. Remember, if you will not overcome then your name isnt written in the book of life. And if that is the case, you are willing to be dumped into the lake of fire. Ha! I can see why I with Satan and Michael will see to it you are cast into the lake of fire, because I dont like any who lower themself just to kiss God's butt, and I damn sure dont like any evil being. I'd call being evil also any who kiss up to God in lowering their standing. So either roll with us overcomers with new earthly and new heavenly names recieved, or get dumped into the second death.

I tell you, your will is enternal so it wont do anything but lower to God and kiss God's butt if you would not listen to what I say here for bettering your standing. You are locked in, and you can not prove otherwise in still being against what I stated throughout this thread.

Originally posted by Mabus
Satan overcame because his name was written in the book of life since says the fact he was given a new name away from Lucifer. Jesus gives a new name to who overcome, remember? See:

"Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

"Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

your lack of logic is becoming mesmerising

lucifer got a new name satan, we dont know who gave him that name it doesnt say

but becasue jesus talks about handing out free names else where you say it MUST be jesus that gave him the name thereforeblah

and you satrt your good best better crazyness again just change the words


please please become a born again christian or a stanist or muslim or jew or somthing anything please never declare your self an atheist we simpley dont want you you do more harm then good with this bewildering quagmire of disinformation and looped fuzzy logic ........infact you saound like a religeon

reply to post by noobfun


I'm not atheist or in any religion. I used to be a Christian and I used to be an atheist.

I read for the truth the bible I get is saying. I bring forth the message implication, not what any religion or athiest says.

I am a messenger. If I read anything I seek its message out foremost, though its author or director may or may not have an indended message I still see a message since the truth, in paraox, works through everything and everyone awake or asleep in its expressions since everyone and everything are its expressions.

A message is something that has to be given you that you recieve by seeking. Seeking implies some work on your part. If I give you a coded truth to crack, when you recieve it by seeking, then you get the message. Message has no one format in particular. So if you get not the message, because you seek not, then that just means you only look at what you get as is without doing any work to understand it and understand it is a message.

If I write: "het nam is ocming" and you seek not understanding it will show you seek not because you work not to see the message in that implying "the man is coming". I can careless about the 'as is' format, which says I am better than someone who expects everything to be given them at face value in a formate only they can understand. The ppl I am better than do not seek to understand because they dont do any work, but instead will ask, say, me to make clear for them. They fail if I had to do work they should be able to do.

reply to post by Mabus


the problem is youve read the bible in a new and imaginative way no one else understands or finds sensible (woohoo a new prophets thats found the one true way)

youve then misquoted it used seriously fuzzy logic to mislink events then brought us the great message youve discovered

your message looks more like "hyet mom be obcmeing" but your trying to convince us its "the man is comming"

ill leave you to you quasi religeous what ever it is ....





[edit on 17/10/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by gYvMessanger


Religion is B.S.

Do you honestly think Jesus is still coming or is coming back even?

Your answer if based on the bible should be? NO! Who is coming or coming back aint with the name Jesus. So while you wonder why you are cast into the lake of fire, just keep asking Jesus why. But I tell you, you will do so to no end since your will would not overcome Jesus. Jesus name shall save you where the warm dieth not! Why? Since that name is not written in the book of life. And guess what? You would not EVER accept that truth.

And so it shall be the undercomers deny being best or better, and deny the very new name thing to where they see not and will not see Satan and Michael way beyond the Son, God, the devil, and the betrayor all together.

If you would not eternally receive a new name, then you will not at any point. The damned are always damned. I just deliver the message just before they are cast into the lake of fire. I mean, hey, the damned are worthy of the reason why they are so damned, are they not? Besides, I like the thing of telling any foes right to their faces just Who gives the order. I like to see the eyes not see Who is right before them, but will rather willingly see the second death first hand EXPERIENCE. I say suit yourselves and let your will see you cast into damnation. At least it's all yourself being you 100%.

3rd year law student here.....and following this tripe was next to, no....it was impossible. What in the hell was being said?

If you want a sane answer than ask a sane question. That means one or two sentences. You are preaching in tongues or something. Not only that your understanding of God is....unique to me at least.

If I had to guess the OP is from some African nation or the middle east.
so not only is it gobbly gook but we have a language barrier issue and meaning of words. What is this Best Better Bestest type issue? why did I just post on this thread?

Now check this out at face value since many seek not the message:

"Mark 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:"

^^Notice the word "better"? Yes, he who said it is implying doing something that is better for you rather than doing something good or evil for yourself. But! You who are damned will willingly not recieve any better news. I tell you, CLEARLY your will will not let you turn from damnation if you will not see the word better better than God's good in terms of doing something in the very quote. You do see a good God sure as hell wont do you any good for you in the quote since the good God does not keep you non-better types from getting cast into hell fire. Now tell me... Will you still not do any thing better than God? Will you still not do anything better than what God does, and take a lower seat to God when you see clear in the God damn quote that you can do better than good God Almighy? Remeber, if this was said "but my words shall not pass away", then how the hell do you not see doing better than God can be done for your sake with the quote? If the words shall not pass away, then dont you think you should really get with the better thing to better yourself over good God Almighty, since the quote implies it is only you who can stop you from being cast into the hell fire.

Bottomline is the damned are a waste of a mind. You can fool yourself if you will since your will will not let you recieve the better thing or the new name thing.

As for me, soon I'll be with women where paradise is. Haha, you who are damned have a will that would not let you get a rewarding of any kind. I mean, maybe even your will wont accept anything paradise. It sucks to be you.

Your an idiot or a troll, possibly both.

I don't care if its a one line post, we need a way to negatively mark posts its getting out of hand now.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
3rd year law student here.....and following this tripe was next to, no....it was impossible. What in the hell was being said?

why did I just post on this thread?

i dont know why you posted but im glad you did i started to think it was my sanity and reason that had gone for a strole around the garden

the better best betterest bestified bestificated is a wonderous construct though easily more unstable then a house of cards in a hurricane but somehow he is able to keep it almost up right with his hands to carry on the argument

Originally posted by Mabus

As for me, soon I'll be with women where paradise is. Haha, you who are damned have a will that would not let you get a rewarding of any kind. I mean, maybe even your will wont accept anything paradise. It sucks to be you.

that sounds very islamic ..... thats an islamic reward belief no mention of it in the bible

either your
A) very confused about the bible and how to read it
B) a troll
C) a muslim pretending not to be and trying to discredit christianity
D)very confused about the bible and how to read it and most of life too

Think of all the ppl off topic mad...

If I make certain mad with what I say, then I must be better than them who are indirectly saying so. Thanks. Nice to know my every words make ppl snap when I aint even attack them to where they attack me one way or another.

I think I'll use the ignore button on all those off topic comments and who ever is attacted to them. Good luck staying mad at me when I wont see you any further.

By the way, the damned would give damn, alright, about what I say how I make em go crazy. Like I said, the damned cant shake their will. It is already set. You cant be something you're not. You cant make me something I'm not either. So keep trying since your will is stuck hellish.

And those who follow what the mad ones say are just mad how I got em also. So um any anger issue anyone else got with what I say? Speak up. Cant dismantle what I stated so you um shall get upset and resort to attacking. The cowardly cant admit why they attack so they would climb up some other way to attack. Watch! A storm of hell is coming down!

No one can accept being better than God expect me. I accept such. Just because I do only means it's me. I aint anyone else. You cant make me accept something you maybe accept. My will is beyond. And if you truely dont like what I say about myself, then put me on ignore. I let me be me reguardless.

I am a messenger. Need I any other to tell me I'm what they say? Hell naw. But um they can keep trying to no end just to prove how I did reveal the damned amongst. Trust me, the damned cant recieve a messenger since their will will not let them. Those who seek do work to get the message. Anyone not doing any work is damned already which shall reveal by their comments and questions off-topic to the message.

reply to post by Mabus


Mabus are you still in judgment? I ask seriously. Are you still bearing witness? Have the elders cast their crowns? You hear the wind speaking and the water rushing? You must as this is how they speak and we know their voice.

And you will be perceived mad, even as David foaming at the mouth. You are secluded by the Lord, to bear his witness of you.

"If I bear witness of myself my witness is not true, yet there is one who bears witnesses of me and I know his witness is true."

"Do not judge, that you may not be judged; for with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured again to you."

"It sucks to be you"...so you've judged, be strong in the truth as we need help. Parable, not riddle. Peace, not strife.

Love as all are his...Peace

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


The damned firstly who bare witness of me are already in the lake of fire, watching through their human graves which shall not frankly tell the hellish person is already in the lake of fire and has no control over what the human grave says or does.

I have judged no man. My works let any walk into no naming mentionings with defined shakings.

Besides all this, those who are damned are not a man. They are abominations far from man. The unnamed are the damned who bare witness.

Originally posted by Mabus
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

The damned firstly who bare witness of me are already in the lake of fire, watching through their human graves which shall not frankly tell the hellish person is already in the lake of fire and has no control over what the human grave says or does.

I have judged no man. My works let any walk into no naming mentionings with defined shakings.

Besides all this, those who are damned are not a man. They are abominations far from man. The unnamed are the damned who bare witness.

Yes, the ones who say. "Look the man has become like one of us, to know both good and evil and now: Lest he take from the tree of life and live for aeon.

I bear the same witness. I am not as strong as you, but I bear being shown daily and pierced daily and lamented to daily.

The first has come to the head, and we are collected one by one.

Peace

First thought that came to mind after reading your convoluted disoriented attempt to undermine the faith of the COG was... Did your parents have any children that lived? Satan is the author of confusion and the god of this age. You are a prime example of the COS.

COG do not "think they are evil". We do know that we are not God/Perfect. Therefore, we make sound judgments but never ever execute judgment on anyone. Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Got it... the COG do not label themselves as "evil"... we label ourselves as "sinners". The awareness of our imperfect nature allows us always to "turn the other cheek" as did Abel when attacked by his brother Cain.

Your characterization of God is profane. God is not "best or better". God is Holy... big difference.

Listen to what the people are saying to you in their posts. You are "confused" your thoughts are the proof.

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace.

Still time for you... make the most of what time you have left... tick... tock... tick... tock... tick.......

.... or is that precisely what you are doing right here... right now...