Zeitgeist Solutions (New Monetary System)

I am going to use this thread to help educate people about the problems with our monetary system. Please don't post here unless you have something to contribute. This thread will be wasted if we allow it to degenerate into arguments.

We all agree that we need a new monetary system. We all know that the Federal Reserve is corrupt, but few truly understand the monetary system.

I will post some very interesting stuff here as I collect it together.

Right now, as I understand it, there is only 7 Trillion Dollars in Paper currency, or about $6.00 for every man woman and child in this country. Now if there is only $6.00 for everyone, then obviously, we need more cash to play with in our economy. There is clearly a shortage of money.

The Federal Reserve prints money, and loans it to the US Treasury at interest. We, the people, are not allowed privately to issue our own currency. However, it is lawful to do this. The Federal Reserve does not want people doing this, so the Feds go after people who figure it out and use it for themselves.

First Lesson is this : Money is created out of the Lien Process.
In a commercial paper economy, where inflation allows us to grow economically, Liens create currency.

Money is created from Debt.

If I, person A, decide to give Person B a job, and agree to pay him $1,000.00 for mowing my lawn, then I created a $1000.00 debt right then and there. If, however, that debt created an impossibility in the monetary system because that paper simply does not exist in circulation, then paper (A Check) is used to pay that debt back. However, regardless, the debt is created out of thin air and added to the economy as "value".

Understood so far?

Well, then if we are creating money by creating debt, then all is good, as long as we are allowed to create a check to pay off that debt. The debt was created out of thin air, and the money is created the same way. If we are required to pay an imaginary debt with REAL money, like gold or silver, then we run out eventually, because of the shortage of gold or silver.

God and Silver are not solutions to this, only a small part of the solution.

T o back everything with Goild or Silver would be foolish because those are scarce as well.

The idea that works has to do with backing artificial currency with natural resources, or services or goods. Each person can issue their own artificial currency. Each currency will be backed by THAT individual's labor or services. We keep an Exchange, kinda like the Stock Exchange, but it's a personal Exchange system. Each person, instead of having a credit rating, would have a Currency rating. Their currency rating would represent how good they have been about providing goods or services when currency is turned into them, which they have issued.

In other words, Example : I have a Grocery Store. This grocery store produces about $5000/Month in Profit. This would allow the grocery store owner, to issue $5000/ Month in their own personal currency. Regardless of whether or not the grocer has made any money that month. This is personal credit at it's finest, and inencumbered by the central banking system.

As long as this grocer is honorable there is no problem. If he/she becomes dishonorable, then people will stop accepting their currency as soon as their Currency Rating get's lowered. That will hurt business for them, as fewer people would be willing to accept their paper.

Back in old times, even a half century ago, people lived this way. And it worked. Farmers would issue "Wheat Reciepts" and their Wheet Reciepts would buy them Clothes like Sheepskins, when the winter would come, and crops would be scarce, yet clothing was needed.

The next step is to figure out the way to implement this Currency Rating System. Besides this important step, people need to understand the momentum against us by the Federal Reserve, and their attempts to keep this from being a reality. People can do what I am describing. It's Legal.

"T o back everything with Goild or Silver would be foolish because those are scarce as well."

How would that be foolish?

A currency is supposed to be scarce so no more can be created. The whole problem with the reserve is that the money is not scarce, since they can simply create more and LOAN it to the U.S. it creates inflation and devalues the money that is out.

If the U.S. didn't have to borrow money and simply made its own it still wouldn't be good. We would still have inflation.

The whole point is what ever backs the currency has to be scarce and rare so more can't be created.

reply to post by Techsnow


I don't buy that. What backs currency does not need to be rare, but it needs to have intrinsic value. What the OP is suggesting, I think, is that the intrinsic value be labor itself. For instance, instead of trading gold/gold notes for a service, trade the value of one's labor. This has similiarities to gold-backing, since labor, too, is limited, but it is lacking in one limiting factor; absolutely arbitary assignment of value.......we can say gold is whatever value we want to assign to it, but physical work is a relatively static value.

If I want to trade a bushel of wheat for a couple dental sessions, the dentist and I are both recognizing the value of each other's hard work and coming to an agreement as to how much each one's time is worth. If I want to give him gold as payment, who is to say he doesn't deserve a whole bar out of my pocket? Do you see the difference?

[edit on 10/15/2008 by iceofspades]

Originally posted by Techsnow
"T o back everything with Goild or Silver would be foolish because those are scarce as well."

How would that be foolish?

A currency is supposed to be scarce so no more can be created. The whole problem with the reserve is that the money is not scarce, since they can simply create more and LOAN it to the U.S. it creates inflation and devalues the money that is out.

If the U.S. didn't have to borrow money and simply made its own it still wouldn't be good. We would still have inflation.

The whole point is what ever backs the currency has to be scarce and rare so more can't be created.

The idea that currency is supposed to be scarce, is a fallacy. Only cash is scarce, that's the problem.

Money is not scarce, since it can be created by debt. In our current economy, in our commercial paper world.....

All I have to do to create money is this : I get a job (yeah, right)....then the person who owes me money, my employer, decides to can me for no good reason. I'm fired without pay. I file a lien against him for the amount owed and losses along the way. I file the Lien for $2000 in stolen funds owed, and another $1000 in tort damages because of the fact that I needed to pay bills this week, and I was not paid in time, causing my water to get shut off, and my dog died because of dehydration.

This lien filed would cause me to be able to produce a Documentary Draft (Money Order). and then trade it on the open market. If the lien was filed properly, I would have a "Perfected Claim", and therefore I could issue funds backed by this Claim, via a check drawn on the funds that are secured by the lien.

Therefore, there is no shortage of money AT ALL. So, currently this is where we stand. In commerce, we can all create as much money as we want, however, this inevidably leads to hyperinflation as well. If we can each be worth a hundred million for filing liens then all we are trading is "valueless paper" anyways. This is the system that does not work very well. This is the system we currently have. There is no shortage of money, only for people who don't understand it very well.

Even the Federal Reserve System creates money by the Lien process. The Bank of England has a lien on the entire United States Corporation. All money is created out of the Lien process.

"The entire taxing and monetary systems are hereby placed under the U.C.C. (Uniform
Commercial Code)" -- The Federal Tax Lien Act of 1966

Originally posted by iceofspades
reply to post by Techsnow

 

I don't buy that. What backs currency does not need to be rare, but it needs to have intrinsic value. What the OP is suggesting, I think, is that the intrinsic value be labor itself. For instance, instead of trading gold/gold notes for a service, trade the value of one's labor. This has similiarities to gold-backing, since labor, too, is limited, but it is lacking in one limiting factor; absolutely arbitary assignment of value.......we can say gold is whatever value we want to assign to it, but physical work is a relatively static value.

If I want to trade a bushel of wheat for a couple dental sessions, the dentist and I are both recognizing the value of each other's hard work and coming to an agreement as to how much each one's time is worth. If I want to give him gold as payment, who is to say he doesn't deserve a whole bar out of my pocket? Do you see the difference?

[edit on 10/15/2008 by iceofspades]

I completely see the difference but in a fast passed society, using such a barter system makes little to no sense.

The intrinsic value of something backed by a physical object is its rarity.

Ever heard of the Tally Stick? You know how you use a stick as a currency? You make it rare.

Although internal controls have been an integral part of business for centuries, confusion exists over the exact meaning and scope of the term. Historically, the term internal control applied to the domain of accounting. The term was applied to the effort to safeguard assets and ensure the accuracy of the accounting records.

Alot of things can work as currency, it doesn't have to be backed by gold. But to say it doesn't have to backed by something is rarae makes no sense to me.

reply to post by truthwarrior7


"Money is not scarce, since it can be created by debt. In our current economy, in our commercial paper world..... "

Do you know why our money is created by debt? You do realize that we borrow money from the federal reserve right? They then print us more at interest and we are supposed to eventually pay the debt back to them some day. There's nothing federal about the federal reserve. We are literally borrowing money from a bank that has THEIR money backed by... GOLD.

The real question you should be asking is why do we borrow money from the federal reserve. Why not just make money ourselves instead of borrowing money from them?? When you figure out the answer to that queston you'll probably realize we don't a new currency, we just need to start making our own.

Originally posted by Techsnow
reply to post by truthwarrior7

 

"Money is not scarce, since it can be created by debt. In our current economy, in our commercial paper world..... "

Do you know why our money is created by debt? You do realize that we borrow money from the federal reserve right? They then print us more at interest and we are supposed to eventually pay the debt back to them some day. There's nothing federal about the federal reserve. We are literally borrowing money from a bank that has THEIR money backed by... GOLD.

The real question you should be asking is why do we borrow money from the federal reserve. Why not just make money ourselves instead of borrowing money from them??

When you figure out the answer to that queston you'll probably realize we don't a new currency, we just need to start making our own.

That's pretty much what i'm saying.
I have more to add, but I have work to do. I'll be back shortly, with a follow-up.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by truthwarrior7]

reply to post by truthwarrior7


I think I understand what you are saying. I don't think anything like that (a barter system) would ever work, it would take too long. A real simple solution, and I think Ron Paul would support me on this, would be to stop using the federal reserve and start printing our own money.

There's nothing wrong with cash, I don't understand why Zeitgeist 2 made such an issue about it. There are a lot of things I don't agree with that came out in that movie. Why replace everyone with machines, then no one would have work? If everyone was replaced by machines then you're barter system currency is even more less likely to work.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by Techsnow]

want a solution? get rid of the economy! period.

don't think it'll work? well of course not if no one's responsible for their own actions. service-to-others is the only way to go! life isn't truly lived until man realizes that helping others can create happiness and spiritual progress. being humble and truly loving all others will send off positive vibes throughout the planet; why use any type of currency when everything's free and everyone wants to help you out?? a barter system isn't even needed - everyone should want to help everyone if we all knew the real truths about life, but alas, that doesn't give power to the wolves at the top...

we're all family on this planet, and it only makes sense to be on the same page as the rest! otherwise, we're headed in the wrong direction!

...or we could just keep trading metals, because they're gonna be worth so much when we're starving and overpopulated

The real reason we shouldn't go back to a gold standard isn't very complex. The Rothschilds have most of the worlds gold assets that they've been accumulating since they started their scamming. and you want to go back to that standard. see the problem there?

Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

it seems you got rid of the federal reserve system and replaced it with nothing. not a bad idea but we are left with the same monetary system based on the same foundation of future value only in the hands of people and creditors. If I issue so much money it is based on what I can make in profit. This is similar to what we already do with the credit rating system. I'm all for getting the government out of our business, but who runs the ratings system on this new exchange? How would we all be able to trust this? The FRS is an imperfect and corrupt monetary philosophy/system. Something does need to replace it that is more sane, equitable and solid. I like the idea of a solid standing by having something tangible to back it up but we have the problem of all material things being inherently volatile in value. Basing things on ability to produce or pay is just as bad. Perhaps a system of strict value control worldwide for resources would be effective, replacing the human need for profit with a reward system of some sort to provide an outlet for those who want something beyond the basics. As a people we should ensure that some basics of life be made non-volatile or as steady as possible; food, shelter, clothing, education, transportation, health service. Anything beyond that could be put in the reward point system, which would be a way of removing the basics of life from being treated as commodities while giving people an outlet for greater wealth and discretionary income. Off the top of my head give discretionary income for services beyond usual, ideas or invention, social service, etc. The discretionary income (money) would come from a designated value system like price control where we put value on these things. Or any non-basic items or services could be in a laissez faire system similar to what our entire economy is now. I'm not sure of all the details on that system since its just an idea, my point would be to keep the basics of life safe and steady for all and allow for an outlet for those who want more.

[edit on 10/16/2008 by deepvoid]

This reply is from a rescent personal experience, so sorry if it seems a bit off topic...

A friend of mine had some water leaks in his house...the kitchen faucet needed replaced with new cut-off valves, and the toilet needed new cut-off valve as well as new seals and fluid master. To get a professional plumber would cost in the neighborhood of $200 just for labor, not including the parts. I just happen to have worked in the plumbing field a few years back, so he asked for my help...no money was ever discussed as payment because I know how bad everything is right now. So I did the labor, and he bought all the parts (about $70). But I feel I did get paid...he gave me an older game he no longer played for my son, fed my family that night, and gave me a few movies that I was wanting to get but not had the money for.

But this is usually how I am...I try to help people in any way that I can, but I don't expect anything in return, it just happens it always pays for itself in the long run when there is something that my family needs help with.

Doing away with money altogether would be great, but it would also take it's toll on society as no one would know how to act, and everybody would have to be re-educated on how the system works. Nowadays not everyone who helps others out like I do ever is compensated for thier labor...people are too busy always trying to get something for free, and will often overlook those that have helped. This is why I feel that basing the economy strictly of resources or labor would not work as hardly anyone has good moral values and would be willing to work with the system.

However, in order to implement any other system for the economy would require a completely new set of laws, in turn throwing out all of the older ones that pertain to non-backed monetary system...this would require not just an overthrow of the monetary system, but an overthrow of the government as well bedcause there is too much vested interest already by the people at the top.

It is a shame that people fall in to the trap of believing that the Federal Reserve is federal at all - it is more of a World Reserve Corporation since 70% (I believe) of the countries use it for thier monetary system...it will never be gone from use as long as there is debt owed to them, on which that interest can never be repaid because there is nothing to pay it back with. In other words if we (the US) just up and decided to stop using it and do our own system, you can bet your bottom-non-backed dollar that it would incite a war.

I don't think we need a monetary system like you said we all agree to.
There is your first problem... We are competitive by nature and thus will not support each other without some type of personal reward. "Getting Money" We cannot see people farming and sharing, or providing an assured service as it should all be.
Select people for jobs during schooling and afford all people equal food and shelter right's.... Hell even for you material people out there, plastic crap from china can be yours as well.
Immagine everything as a cirlce and planning logistic's to cover everyend would eliminate hunger and division's between people.
Only problem is the rich wont ever let that happen
Peace

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Jb0311NY]

What if we could come up with some kind of hybridized system, using elements of both the barter system and for some applications, our own national currency, backed by precious metals? Some things would be dealt with through barter, while others might require a more tangible form of payment. The currency aspect would also allow for individuals to save for their later years, when they may no longer be able to barter? Just a thought.

certain items should not have to be paid for like food, clothing, shelter, healthcare and whatever heats your home,...everything else we should have a barter system for.. or

people are too greedy for this but

a global solution would be

this system would be based on credit system

the governments only job would be moniter the businesses and moniter the credit system

it would be up to the people to make the laws for and hire sherriffs and congressmen to maintain a community

the way the constitution says all men are created equal( to me it means all are paid the same no matter what job you have..this would include govt jobs)

everyone works on a piece-work/salary basis(the company requires you to put out x cases of product ,if you work non-stop you can do the work in 2 hrs with experience-5 hrs for the people just learning .if you want to sit around and gab it could take 10 hrs ..your choice)if you dont complete all the work required in 10 hrs. you get credit for the work you did and must leave to make room for the rest of the workers

the jobs like cashier and maybe a few others they are paid salary 5 hr work day(but the people with some disabilities would work great here) not to be taken as an insult

long haul truck drivers would drive 4 hrs in the direction the shipment was headed and drop it off to the next driver to continue the haul (i said 4 hrs but he is getting the same 5 hr salary, the extra hr is for some of his travel time to return home)

this would only work if all property was based on a flat-line system no matter what country( an acre is worth x amount)

it would also eliminate some of the wars because everyone on the planet is worth exactly the same

x amount of credit is put towards your retirement and a small x amount is put towards a disability fund(people that cannot work at all) and a smaller x amount is put aside for the government

if you already have a job you cannot get a second so everyone has an oppotunity to work

this of course will not be liked by all but it would give everyone an equal oppotunity to support their family and would make a peaceful planet

businesses would have to work with a near equal trade system ( they pay x for a product then they can only charge the cost of that item including shipping and labor)

people in prison would be required to work on farms without machines so they learn their lesson and are not loafing off the system(kinda slave labor
they only get enough credit to pay for their housing,food,and clothing and no luxuries

this is the only solution that would benifit everyone on the planet,and not only greedy ones

this would have to be a global re-education system for it to work

Originally posted by goathead
What if we could come up with some kind of hybridized system, using elements of both the barter system and for some applications, our own national currency, backed by precious metals? Some things would be dealt with through barter, while others might require a more tangible form of payment. The currency aspect would also allow for individuals to save for their later years, when they may no longer be able to barter? Just a thought.

That's the way the USA was until the Fed Res was established...There was no Federal Deficit at all until then & it only took about 20 years for them to engineer the Great Depression & force the government to officially declare itself as bankrupt (The Emergency Banking Relief Act of 1933).

The reason why the government went bankrupt is because the use of Federal Reserve Notes is the only currency allowed by Unconstitutional law. So I'd agree that what needs to be changed the most would be to remove the "elites' monopoly" on currency. Currency does need to be backed by something tangible, yes, but it doesn't have to be anything particularly rare if a stable/unalterable value can be attached to it. It's the "fractional reserve" system of banking being linked to a "currency monopoly" that's screwed up everything.

[edit on 19-10-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

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