This is a demonstration in England being denied to us by the Police

some of the comments i have read in this thread have amazed me! I suggest to the people who think the police force is some brainwashed army to actually go to their local station and ask to go out on patrol with an officer and look at things from the other side of the coin. I've done this myself and I can tell you they're doing a better job than most of youcould probably do. Also to those who use the old arguement 'they should be out dealing with real crime', let me know what you'd be doing during your shift??

Originally posted by onetruesaxon
I can tell you they're doing a better job than most of youcould probably do. Also to those who use the old arguement 'they should be out dealing with real crime', let me know what you'd be doing during your shift??

Please let me tell you.

There once was an old man living on his own, minding his own business when 2 thugs broke in to his home, fed up with the police doing nothing every time he had a burglary he took matters into his own hands and shot one if them dead. Did the police give him praise for getting rid of the low life scum that polluted the streets, no of course not instead he was duly arrested and sentenced for murder. Where he spent years of his life behind bars.

I used to think like you but not any more, police nowadyas would rather dish out fines than tackle serious crime.

Heres a few examples of the kind hearted police force tackling crime.





And



Lastly a good example of how police can incite rioting












[edit on 16-10-2008 by franspeakfree]

Originally posted by freeradical
reply to post by 19DCW71

 

The problem with large scale protests is that you always get someone who may or may not be part of the group, possibly even a 'plant' who decides to get physical and then it gets ugly.

I know that you always get a few morons,but if you are on such a large scale, the protesters themselves could rsolve this issue. I don't see how anyone is going to attempt to get physical with a crowd in the upwards of a million plus. This is what I mean by a large protest and if you want to see real results for real matters,this is the only protest that should be organized. A few hundred or few thousand is a wasted accomplishment.

Thank goodness people are getting smart, educating themselves much in thanks to the (current) freedom of the Internet, the corrupt people in power be it government or financial (not all of them mind) have reason thus to fear this. Its a bit short sighted to fear progress of the human race by trying to protect the status quo.

Education, in my view, is more potent than any weapon, protest or riot to implement positive change. Was this not the goal of the original Illuminati?

Though I agree with the fact that an education is one of the most important things, it's also used as a weapon and is used to control the strong, to do the physically inferiors dirty work. It also falls into the wrobng hands.I know I and many people use the internet for education, but it's also used for people researching how to destroy mankind.

Also a quote I read from an unnamed author makes a very valid point.

"the spread of knowledge amnd education has taught mankind little in the art of self control and even LESS in living with one another."

If you ask me, the more educated people become, the worse off they get.aS FAR AS THE ILLUMINATI, I don't know what their or anyone's agenda is, but I will tell you that the reason the world is in this current state is because of education. It has allowed corrupt people to manipulate the masses.

Facts is there's only 2 types of people. Good or Evil and depending on how you educate either of them, will have a drastic outcome on the future of our world. Very touchy situations we find our selfs being forced into.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by 19DCW71]

reply to post by onetruesaxon


"
some of the comments i have read in this thread have amazed me! I suggest to the people who think the police force is some brainwashed army to actually go to their local station and ask to go out on patrol with an officer and look at things from the other side of the coin."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I respectfully suggest you have a walk around a busy city centre and see how the police randomly pick on people who's only crime is that they are a bit boozed up. I saw one lad beaten and arrested for simply looking at an officer!
I'd gladly go on patrol with an officer. What an easy days work that would be. Fine a couple of speeders for doing four miles an hour over the limit. Pull into a layby for an hour or two to drink coffee and do the crossword. Then it would be off to a housing estate to make sure that the elderly owners of a council house didn't try to stop the body building bailiffs from smashing their front door down and taking their goods over a simple unpaid bill. Back to the layby for another hour. Perhaps give out a few parking fines, before a busy night of arresting innocent law abiding people whose only crime is to fight back against the teenage yobs who prowl the streets or attempt to protect their homes from those trying to break in, or vandolise, their property.

"For gods sake man get a grip and open your eyes! The only people the law protects now are the governments unfair rules and regulations which make our lives harder and more difficult, or the deviants and feral yobs who prey on ordinary people and make life hell. Ask yourself this before you go supporting an unfair and out of control police force- Why is that it always seems to be the victim, whose only crime is that he protected himself, that is arrested and taken to court?"

The system, as it now stands, sucks!!!

Originally posted by 19DCW71
This is why I think protesting is a useless waste of time. There's a sign which says "Defend Free Speech" yet nobody even defends themselves when force is applied.

To protest peacably is fine but the minute they try to infringe upon and take your rights by FORCE, is the time the entire crowd needs to react as one and make it a phsyical protest.

Your peaceful protests are absolutely USELESS and have resulted in absolutely NOTHING, other than the fact theat your standing there looking foolish and actually doing more harm for the cause. They know evertime they come in they take a little more of our rights and nothing is done.

Next time you people decide to protest, you may as well go already handcuffed, with your pants around your ankle, because your being raped of your rights, so why put up a facade if your not gonna fight.

I can understand this point of view, but I disagree completely. Allow me to explain....

I believe that history should always be our guide. By getting physical with the police, media is then able to capture those images on film, spin the story, and make you look like a crazy. Instead I say be peaceful. Just like Americans did in the 60's. When they protested and things got out of hand, they SAT DOWN! These people were abused in every possible way, and they SAT DOWN! So when it could no longer be ignored and the media covered these incidents...they had no footage to make the protesters look like crazies. Instead the world saw images of protesters SITTING DOWN and authorities were shown to be the abusers that they truly are.

By exposing the corrupt system for what it is...then you can get the change you desire. No good comes from violent protest. Instead you look like some angry psycho and no one will listen to the message of an "angry psycho". If you are peaceful, sitting down, and the whole world sees you getting your head smashed in by the real psychos.... then your the victim and people will listen to your story.

Of course you have a right to defend yourself. You shouldnt allow anyone to bully you, hit you, push you etc. In this case however, you have to look at the bigger picture. Being violent in retaliation does nothing but give the police an excuse to come out in force and play with all their new "non lethal" toys...and get away with it... and in cases like these it will not matter who is violent and who is not. You will all get painted with the same brush and they will come after the whole group.

Originally posted by MrWendal

By exposing the corrupt system for what it is...then you can get the change you desire.

If MODERN society is "the Change" you're talking about, this was a waste of time. Today there's more corruption, violence and immorality than when they protested. So I can assume it safe to say this ISN'T the change they were desiring.

No good comes from violent protest. Instead you look like some angry psycho and no one will listen to the message of an "angry psycho".

I tend to disagree. Everyone has succumbed to the will of every physco who has run this country and is still so naively brainwashed that they still believe "The SPIN" the media puts on everything. When everyone realizes tyhe media is biased then we can talk about the media. until then,i'ts just another American propoganda brainwashing tool used to further THEIR cause.

If you are peaceful, sitting down, and the whole world sees you getting your head smashed in by the real psychos.... then your the victim and people will listen to your story.

LOL . No disrespect, but this scenario only shows that you may be dead for no apparent reason. To allow someone to smash your head in shows your natural survival instinct has been removed by their tactics or you are just plain scared to death and shouldn't be there in the first place. If memory serves correct, didn't many students die during these protests? It was a little before my time.

If you read my other post, you will see, I honestly think the only way to logically protest PEACFULLY is in mass numbers. Everyone needs to organize (for the right cause) and then protest. A good example was the million man march. I don't know what the exact number was but now you have a significant protest.This will assure that the governing agencies will not intervene by force. What could you possibly do to 1 million plus people.

My suggestion is that when they try to unjustly quench the protest with force, it's only right to use it back. I'm not stating rush out and cause physical confrontations. But people need to band together as one. It's not about race and religion, but rich and poor. We Poor are the ones who built this world and are being controlled by such a minimal few.It's pathetic.

I tend to agree that peace it better, but is U.F.U. (utterly effing Useless) when it comes to accomplishing something of this significance in a realistic time frame. Peaceful protests will last for centuries and get nothing accomplished.The powers that be aren't stupid. they appease the few with menial B/S and we're back to square one. Do you want to be a slave the rest of your life, along with your children theirs and so on? I want my siblings to be free.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
This is how our freedom of speech is being treated, our RIGHT top freely protest. They are ILLEGALY closing down the protest, aboloshing our RIGHTS to a peaceful protest!

uk.youtube.com...

The police are breaking the law, denying us the right to campaign and confiscating materials, on what legal basis are they confiscating cameras and paraphenalia... No reason!

The secretary of the University and college in liverpool asks many valid questions and the police ignore him...

[edit on 14-10-2008 by mr-lizard]

[edit on 14-10-2008 by mr-lizard]

part 2 of the video

uk.youtube.com...

free country my arse.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by beefeater]

reply to post by franspeakfree


Wow those vids are shocking.... Was that a footballer who came to the rescue? Sure looked like it...

I hope that security/copper thinks twice about displaying such violence, especially after such a kicking by the mob...

Karma?

Can somebody answer the point, mentioned by several people now, about requiring permission to set up stalls in public?

Originally posted by onetruesaxon
Please let me tell you.

There once was an old man living on his own, minding his own business when 2 thugs broke in to his home, fed up with the police doing nothing every time he had a burglary he took matters into his own hands and shot one if them dead. Did the police give him praise for getting rid of the low life scum that polluted the streets, no of course not instead he was duly arrested and sentenced for murder. Where he spent years of his life behind bars.

Are you talking about Tony Martin? If you are then if you read about the case in full it is clear that he broke both the letter and spirit of the law with offences including the possession of an illegal firearm.


[edit on 16-10-2008 by Mike_A]

Originally posted by franspeakfree

Originally posted by onetruesaxon
I can tell you they're doing a better job than most of youcould probably do. Also to those who use the old arguement 'they should be out dealing with real crime', let me know what you'd be doing during your shift??

Please let me tell you.

There once was an old man living on his own, minding his own business when 2 thugs broke in to his home, fed up with the police doing nothing every time he had a burglary he took matters into his own hands and shot one if them dead. Did the police give him praise for getting rid of the low life scum that polluted the streets, no of course not instead he was duly arrested and sentenced for murder. Where he spent years of his life behind bars.

You are talking about that guy in Norfolk/Norwich, aren't you? Something Martin?

Well, yes, you can use that story to make a point but it would be better to explain exactly what happened. Martin (please excuse me if that wasn't his name, I have trouble with my memory. It is a second name rather than first though), who had had his property burglarised several times over that previous 6 months, found a young man (late teens) robbing his shed. Martin confronted the burglar, who took flight. While the youth had his back to Martin, running away with no property, Martin fired one or more shots from his shotgun into the youths back, killing him.

We all know about British fire arm laws, Americans always tell us we wouldn't have such high crime rates if we were allowed to carry guns and that may well be the case but as it is, gun laws here are extremely strict! Even in America, a country that to most Europeans seems to be very trigger happy, there are strict rules against shooting an unarmed person who is running away from your property, no matter what crime they have commited!

I do understand the farmers point of view. The thought that someone who has done nothing in his/her life to earn a crust could come and take your hard earned property is sickening but there is always a line that should not be crossed and I firmly believe the death of another human should not so much as be approached!


EDIT: Apologies, I have just re-read your post and you seem to be posting from a very American perspective, so you are probably not talking about the farmer in Norfolk, I would be interested in reading about the event you are talking about though, if you can possibly find me a link or maybe explain further.

Regarding your videos, they are all (obviously) American and US police can not be compared in any way to their British colleagues and a comparison should never be attempted.

On top of that, you are showing footage of police reacting on the spur of the moment, due to their own training and personality. This thread is about the reaction of the "higher ups" to a protest.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by triplesod]

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by franspeakfree

 

Wow those vids are shocking.... Was that a footballer who came to the rescue? Sure looked like it...

I hope that security/copper thinks twice about displaying such violence, especially after such a kicking by the mob...

Karma?

Nah, it was just a prick from the home end. You can tell he is a nob even before his reaction by the way he is wearing full replica kit!

We can't really see what is going on in that vid, it does look like the copper is banging him with the but of his truncheon but we can't be 100% sure of that or if he is, where he is hitting him and why.

I am playing devils advocate here, I am no big fan of the police but I do think they get a lot of undeserved stick nowadays. They aren't half as bad as they were 20 years back. That isn't to say that there isn't a few little Napoleons in the squad who use their uniform as a way to inflict physical and mental torture on others. I know for a fact that they are out there and in fact, I have a couple of stories myself that would make you sick to you stomach!

Originally posted by Mike_A
Can somebody answer the point, mentioned by several people now, about requiring permission to set up stalls in public?

Originally posted by onetruesaxon
Please let me tell you.

There once was an old man living on his own, minding his own business when 2 thugs broke in to his home, fed up with the police doing nothing every time he had a burglary he took matters into his own hands and shot one if them dead. Did the police give him praise for getting rid of the low life scum that polluted the streets, no of course not instead he was duly arrested and sentenced for murder. Where he spent years of his life behind bars.

Are you talking about Tony Martin? If you are then if you read about the case in full it is clear that he broke both the letter and spirit of the law with offences including the possession of an illegal firearm.


[edit on 16-10-2008 by Mike_A]

I thought that mate (see my above post) but it seems that she is American so is very unlikely to know of that case. I would presume she is talking about an American case.

I'm just wondering though if you are sure about the "illegal firearm" business. Tony Martin was a Norfolk farmer, they all have shotguns and rifles, legally 99% if the time.
You are completely right though about him committing a grievous crime and he deserved his punishment.

i give up on this topic because people will manipulate things to fit their own agenda without actually doing any research.

Triplesod,

Yeah I realised after it might not be Tony Martin but nevertheless he is a case that is brought up in these circumstances.

As far as the weapon goes, he was using a pump action shot gun which is illegal in the UK and he knew this because he hid it after the event. The bigger issue, and the specifics are eluding me right now, is that (IIRC) he didn’t just confront the burglars. From what I remember he heard them downstairs, crept down with his gun and waited to get a clear shot; in other words his intent wasn’t to drive them off or apprehend them but to actually cause serious harm or kill them. I think this was proven through ballistics, i.e. the holes in the wall from his initial shots demonstrated that he must have been crouching on his stair, somewhat hidden from the burglars. Again I’m hazy on the specifics so maybe you can correct me on some of that but I think that’s what happened.

Found more info here:

dotconnectoruk.blogspot.com...

"The only obstruction in Church Street, Liverpool was Merseyside police vehicles and the crowd who gathered to see what was going on and stayed to support the protest. Activists and the public surrounded and blocked the exit of the police van, but the police were being hardline and couldn’t see that they caused the biggest obstruction in Liverpool for many years. The public were on the side of the political activists and chanted with us at various times “Let Them Go! - Let Them Go!”
The police were offered the chance a number of times to unarrest the activists (as they could have done at any time) and we would disperse."

---

Glad to see the public using common sense and standing up fow what is right. Not at all suprised to know that the Police refused to acknowledge their own mistakes and illegal activity.

But Lizard, have you found anything saying that the protesters had permission to set up these stalls?

It doesn’t matter whether they were causing an obstruction or not, they simply need to have permission to set them up and that is that; that is the law. Since the police only seemed to be bothered with the stalls and anyone stopping them from removing them it would make most sense that they just didn’t have that permission to set them up.

The children think that what they are born with is normal, but the older people realize that things have changed so much, and our rights have gone downhill since 9-11. But it is too late for them, or by then they have relized that politics are senseless, unless who your election is going to take away your basic rights or not...

Big government has ruined a lot of our self-government and our privacy with things like the "patriot act". What a lame name for a bill that lets the government observe our phone calls and transactions. They can look at this blog. I'm sure they are, heck, it says in the site description that this site is used to "uncover government secrets"! I don't know how bad this kind of thing is in the UK, but I think it will get much much worse for us in the US if another "terrorist attack" happens. If a attack did happen we might have to pass a "Pass this unless your not a american hero bill" that takes away the Bill of Rights.

Ridiculous.

People keep coming into this thread and saying how bad things are and talking about the Big Brother state but no one is answering the points brought up by Essam, IA and myself.

We know that UK law requires you to have permission to set up these stalls in public, can anyone say whether or not they had permission? Since that is all the police were focusing on, it would seem likely that they didn’t.