Let Me Get This Straight.....

With everything going on in the world today our civil liberties being taken away, the warfare state, the welfare state, the government putting us into bankruptcy and now this. 700 BILLION dollars to go to "rescuing" our economy.

Ok so let me get this straight. You want me the taxpayer to give more of my hard earned money to you the banker so you can lend it back to me.... at interest. Wait wait wait I wanna be clear on this you want me to give the government the money... to take the bad debt off of your books so you the banker can lend ME and my other taxpaying brethren the GREAT opportunity to borrow money from you AT INTEREST. How much interest will I be getting on the money I am lending the government?

I put this in the conspiracy section because this really is a debatable issue and that is are we the people and Im not talking about just in America really slaves? I mean we arent labeled as slaves but think about this and please look at this in a simple manor.

We are being asked to pay for wars and for what? What do I get from a war? My taxes go up I know that. I know the bankers and the military industrial complex makes money I know that. I know many lose their lives. But yet I still have to pay for this. Im asked to pay for the government and its organizations to take my rights away. I pay them to listen to my phone calls, track my emails, look at my bank transactions, and probably read this post that I am posting. Now I am being asked to help the bankers out. Now in doing this they will let me borrow money from them and that is if I am lucky. All these people look me straight in the eye and tell me that this is needed so the "credit"market can continue.

Gee thanks for giving me the honor to borrow money at interest from you. If this bailout was to help you guys lend to people at NO interest THIS would be a good investment. But its not this bailout is so the banking industry can continue on their tear of more power and more money all at the expense of us the common peon. People you can use any terminology you want for this bailout but what it should be called is a slave payment. This is the biggest conspiracy I feel there is out there and should be talking about here on ATS. Are we really slaves?

[edit on 29-9-2008 by mybigunit]

Yes. You got it rather well...

The 'system/establishment/way things are' requires us to "prop them up" so it can continue. Like we need it to continue as it is.

They offer us (via our esteemed meat-puppets in office) the following concessions to offset the offense to our 'common' (pun intended) sense:

Paulson doesn't get to be King. Wow, we sure made out on that point!

They "may" have to pay the money back in 5 years (no interest compounded).

The cream of the crop corporate elite won't get to blatantly rape the stockholders through extraordinary bonuses... yeah that'll help the market out a bunch!

The 'representatives' will keep an eye on things.... uh huh.

Woo hoo, we win!

They insist on treating the Americans like hayseed rubes who have no clue of the scam that has been run by the Central Banks for the last century.

Amazing.

But the sad part is, the people who really need it won't "qualify" for help as they are at thier credit limit or thier credit has been screwed up by this "crisis".

Originally posted by ATruGod
But the sad part is, the people who really need it won't "qualify" for help as they are at thier credit limit or thier credit has been screwed up by this "crisis".

Yup the people who followed the governments consumerism corporatism agenda of dont save its unpatriotic you need to spend us out of recessions are the ones who will get screwed. With the money retraction there isnt the money out there to pay these debts so yes these people get screwed hard in the whole deal. Oh but they still have to pay for the bailout. So what slave number are you my friend

And we are supposed to get our money back when these assets are sold.
Yep!
And when pigs fly, we'll call them pigeons! (DUCK!)

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
And we are supposed to get our money back when these assets are sold.
Yep!
And when pigs fly, we'll call them pigeons! (DUCK!)

Right when pigs fly. No we dont get our money back we just get the luxurious opportunity to borrow money from these banks at interest so they can make money. So they can keep handing out the foreclosure notices.

reply to post by ATruGod


Yes,true that...

Without a doubt being able to QUALIFY to borrow your own money will become more difficult.. a reaction to the billions, no doubt, of dollars that have been allowed to be processed through "no down, no qualify, no nothing needed"
to own your own piece of heaven.

"Step on up. We'll put you in that home, one way or another." (wink, wink)

I worked for awhile for a company that dealt with the " no down, interest only, no qualify, no income verification" loans.
Hell, the borrower need not show a social security number to get approved.
We had soooo many that we were told to hold off because the issuers were getting behind filling out the forms with the lenders. I witnessed many non-English speaking persons filling out paperwork, and later, learned that they had been approved.
When the E verify law was enacted in January'08, is when I became aware of many houses in the Tucson area on the market. Mexico is 62 miles south...

Before the heat comes my way... I am NOT responsible for any of these
contracts, as EARLY on I felt it was bad and choose to "bailout" of that position very quickly after I realized what was going on. Furthermore, I alerted people to it and recommended more conventional loans.

Very hard to disagree with that post mybigunit. I think it's unlikely to provoke many opposing responses.

But the fact remains that the US and UK economies are both utterly reliant on the continuing success of the banks and financial companies you and I are now being asked to bail out. To term this a conspiracy suggests it is planned, considered and thought through - whereas in my view what this demionstrates is a complete lack of foresight and appalling judgement.

LW

Originally posted by LoneWeasel
Very hard to disagree with that post mybigunit. I think it's unlikely to provoke many opposing responses.

But the fact remains that the US and UK economies are both utterly reliant on the continuing success of the banks and financial companies you and I are now being asked to bail out. To term this a conspiracy suggests it is planned, considered and thought through - whereas in my view what this demionstrates is a complete lack of foresight and appalling judgement.

LW

Ok why is our economies dependent on the successes of the banking industry? If this was a true free market this would not be the case would it. Good growth would be on production and innovation and not on debt wouldnt you think? But we have somehow switched from being nations whos growth was on innovation and production to how much we can consume and rack up in debt. To me YES this is planned. There is indeed a conspiracy because debt = slavery and debt is how the banks and their colluding governments are coming to OWN the people. By convincing them to live these lifestyles and hey the sheeple eat it right up and myself included it plays right into the hands of the international bankers. If my judgment is appalling because I feel that we the people are slaved to the bankers then I guess we will respectfully disagree. But I dont feel that my judgment is appalling thats kind of an appalling statement.


I tell you what Ill take it a step further. We all agree that the gas prices suck correct? Well as a people in a free market we should be able to say OK since you guys dont want to make the pricing reasonable we will just stay home. We will not work until you get the pricing to a fair pricing. In a free market and society you would have this choice. But you dont get this choice why? Because we have bills and DEBT we have to pay off. In otherwords you do as your told and you pay what your told to pay and you like it.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by mybigunit]

Originally posted by mybigunit
Ok why is our economies dependent on the successes of the banking industry? If this was a true free market this would not be the case would it. Good growth would be on production and innovation and not on debt wouldnt you think? But we have somehow switched from being nations whos growth was on innovation and production to how much we can consume and rack up in debt. To me YES this is planned. There is indeed a conspiracy because debt = slavery and debt is how the banks and their colluding governments are coming to OWN the people. By convincing them to live these lifestyles and hey the sheeple eat it right up and myself included it plays right into the hands of the international bankers. If my judgment is appalling because I feel that we the people are slaved to the bankers then I guess we will respectfully disagree. But I dont feel that my judgment is appalling thats kind of an appalling statement.

I'm not sure if you misunderstand me - I didn't say your judgement was appalling, I said the judgement of those who build an economy based on debt-ridden businesses and people is appalling. I agree that a truly free market would be a much better idea. The reason debt is a stupid thing to bank on is because it isn't sustainable - as has recently been proven.

Not all people are sheeple. I haven't got a mortgage or a credit card, I owe no money to anyone - and yet my taxes will now be used to pay off the bankers who have funded this debt-ridden economy so incompetently. Call it part of a plan to enslave the populace if you like - you may well be right - my point is simply that if you're right, it's not just an evil plan, it's a really bad plan that's been really badly executed.

LW

Originally posted by LoneWeasel
I'm not sure if you misunderstand me - I didn't say your judgement was appalling, I said the judgement of those who build an economy based on debt-ridden businesses and people is appalling. I agree that a truly free market would be a much better idea. The reason debt is a stupid thing to bank on is because it isn't sustainable - as has recently been proven.


LW

I did misunderstand and I apologize. This subject gets me rowled up. I did not have an ounce of CC debt or any debt till this all went down. Now I have a line of credit in which I cant get the banks to work with me at all on. Yet I get to pay for their bailout. This after I paid a lot and I mean a lot in individual income taxes.

You may not be superficially in debt... but every dollar you make is debt in disguise. When the dollar fails, everything you earned is up for grabs by the banksters. You truly own nothing. Even if you invest in gold, you are investing notes of debt into gold, and therefore, the gold isn't even yours. Th gold you "own" is someone else's even though you seem to possess it. You own nothing, in reality. In that sense, we've all got nothing to lose. So let's keep that in mind when fearing the loss of all our stuff. Keep in mind that no matter how hard you work for "The Man", the option exists, ready to be acted upon, to repossess everything you own once the current system is of no benefit to them anymore.

No, they don't want to pull money out of your pocket to bail out the bankers, they want to pull money out of your kids and grandkids wallets to bail them out! That's even worse!

the low wage, subsistance lifestyle, and the requirement that a modern family needs to network many different credit & loan sources to keep a quality of life just above the 'Serf' class... is the Norm !


you, we, and I to a certain extent are flotsam & jetsom on the sea of credit liquidity...
and most of us feel 'good' about the subjective 'wealth' we are convinced we possess & hold.


look at this article "U.S. Wealth in Shrink Mode"
www.atimes.com...


the credit & loan system has become so intertwined in our lifestyles we hardly consider them...
all are minute bites on our wallets, yet we tolerate and encourage using these service providers at a cost... and feel good about the apparent wealth we enjoy by being part of the 'system'

The wake-up call is underway, unless the $7700bn bailout is approved and the credit system continues along as it has over the last two generations.


the link shows a simple box which compairs the Wealth/Income ratio in 3 different eras.

the ratio in 1962 was 3.8%
the ratio in 1989 was 7.3%
the ratio in 2004 was 10.4%

right now, the system is broken, and the de-flator or Dis-inflation process is just beginning.... we are going to experience a return to a wealth/income ratio closer to the historic and realistic rate of 3.8%----> not the current leveraged 10.4%


that is unless the $700bn (as the start-up fee) fund is created to keep the old system chugging along



thanks,

reply to post by mybigunit


Amen brother.