why did He bother giving us free will if He is just going to kill us if we choose sin???

well.


how come the first man rejected christ?


if he was so good, whats the stumbling block?


if christ teaches exactly the good mans heart, then why doesnt he recognize.



maybee the [good] man does all his good out of pride and attributes his good
works to himself instead of God who made him.



it comes down to pride in the end imo.


peace.

Originally posted by Truth
well.


how come the first man rejected christ?


if he was so good, whats the stumbling block?


if christ teaches exactly the good mans heart, then why doesnt he recognize.



maybee the [good] man does all his good out of pride and attributes his good
works to himself instead of God who made him.



it comes down to pride in the end imo.


peace.

OR maybe the good man was a raised a Buddist? Or a Hindu? Or a Morman? Or a Jew? Or a Muslim?

Or Maybe it was a baby that was evil enough to Die before being babtised? Or one of the countless millions that never heard of Jesus?

According to the "good book" your loving God is Gonna Fry-em. They will Burn for eternity for the sin of picking the wrong card from the deck, or not picking a card at all.


Remember he tortures you for eternity because he loves you.....LOL

god would not allow a just person who searches for truth to parish.


just because your any religion does not mean you cant search. just four years ago amuk, imyself didnt know who jesus was. i was in the wilderness, and your mind hasnt seen how he showed himself to me.


yet these doings stop with me?



peace

Originally posted by Truth


god would not allow a just person who searches for truth to parish.


just because your any religion does not mean you cant search. just four years ago amuk, imyself didnt know who jesus was. i was in the wilderness, and your mind hasnt seen how he showed himself to me.


yet these doings stop with me?



peace

whatever gets you through the day. I am serious, if it helps you make it than its OK, but just dont think that EVERYONE that did not make the same choice as you will burn.

I went the other way I started out in the church till I saw how mush bull# was in it, then I thought well the word is in the book not the church, but then I made a bad mistake I READ IT.

God telling the Good guys to wipe out cities and kill EVERY living thing.

God sending bears to kill children.

God killing all the first born babies.

God wiping out the planet.

God wiping out cities.

God telling you to kill your children if they disobey.

God telling you to sell your daughter to her rapist.

God torturing his number one follwer on a bet.

God torturing you for eternity for picking the wrong God even if you are a wonderful man.

God allowing rapists and child molesters and killers into heaven just because they are saved, but on second thought they do seem like his kinda people.


I repeat if it helps you make it in this crazy screwed up world, great, as long as you dont try to burn me at the stake we will get along fine.

Inscribed above the gates of Dante's hell:

"I too was created by eternal love"

Originally posted by they see ALL
why did God even bother giving us free will if He is just going to kill us if we choose sin???

First get your facts right where in the bible does it say God will actually kill us (permanantly). God will only reject you because you are a slave to sin. You will be where you want to be where sin rules! In hell. Hell isnt death its just slow destruction you still live eternally you dont die you just spend it in misery believe me i would prefer not to exist. But its up to you. You rebelled when you sinned. So did i.

You've got everything in the wrong context. Think, God created earth with people with sinless lives this is the way God wants it to be and he will continue to purify as he pleases. (the flood and sodom) These sinners obviously took it too far (in worldly standards). However
God gave us a choice if you dont want to live a life serving him hes not going to protect you. Though he still loves you, he is the truth and therefore his law and judgement are absolute, so he has to prevent the earth from getting to a standard where no one can be saved.

If i had a bunch of guys who worshipped me i would want them to do it themselves, with out being programmed/forced, but to choose.

Wouldn't the original question in this thread be equivalent to the following line of thinking?

"Why would a free society give us rights if they're just going to take them away when we break the law?"

The answer to this question seems relatively obvious...so why the big problem with the same question worded differently?

Originally posted by Amuk
Remember he tortures you for eternity because he loves you.....LOL

Get it right is it God who tortures you? Why would he spend eternity with someone who has rejected him. If you chose to be a slave to sin you spend your eternity with your master. he chooses what to do with you, and he dont love you, you are his arch enemies creation he wants to destroy you. so he'll try but God wont let him kill you.

Originally posted by Valhall
"Why would a free society give us rights if they're just going to take them away when we break the law?"

You dont have rights you are gods creation you belong to god. Paul didnt complain when God put him through all the beatings and disasters. Neither did Job really, he answered his friends that god has given him good stuff why not bad.

Originally posted by Beanie_pianoforte

Originally posted by Valhall
"Why would a free society give us rights if they're just going to take them away when we break the law?"

You dont have rights you are gods creation you belong to god. Paul didnt complain when God put him through all the beatings and disasters. Neither did Job really, he answered his friends that god has given him good stuff why not bad.

Listen. First, I find your your answers to those who are having trouble getting free-moral agency a bit militant.

I happen to be some one who DOES get what free-moral agency is. And, YES, it is a right and privilege bestowed on me by the Creator. And, YES, the problem that a lot of people have with this concept is that in the end, when we have denied the "right of ownership" the Creator has over us, He will reciprocate by relinquishing His ownership. It is the relinquishing of this ownership that will be the second, final, and permanent death. And for any one who has chosen this, they will be getting exactly what they asked for. Apparently, just like people who think they should not suffer consequences due to illegal decisions, people don't want to suffer consequences for spiritual decisions either.

I for one don't want to go there.

The title of this thread should be "Why would the Jewish God kill us?". I believe that there is a big difference between the Jewish god and God.

Many here have quoted instances in the Bible where Yaweh has acted cruelly. But what they fail to see is that it wasn't God who was acting in this way, but man.
The acts of God's cruelty in the Bible were put there to enforce the Jewish faith. Christianity now uses a carrot - the Hope of Salvation, but early Judaism used a stick - the Wrath of an angry God.

Some of the harshest acts that were laid at the door of God were actually carried out by men. The cities that were laid waste in Canaan were carried out by tribes who were acting in the name of their god. Populations that were slain were done so by tribes acting in the name of their god. Through the centuries it has been interpreted that these people were doing God's work and therefore it was God who carried out the cruelty. Jewish history is full of warfare - any act against another people was an act by their god.

As for freewill, I believe that Netchicken summed it up quite nicely, but I will also repost a link to another thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In my opinion, freewill is what makes us tick. Without it we are nothing. God chose to create us and he gave us the ability to choose. It is the one little bit of divinity that we have. How we choose to use it is up to us.

[Edited on 24-3-2004 by Leveller]

As one father once said to a child molester; "Screw with my little girl, and you won�t have to worry about a god getting hold of you." You choose to do some things, and you won�t have to wait to get judged by any god. Any good citizen with a gun and the guts to make a stand can judge you to death. End of story.

Originally posted by ET3
As one father once said to a child molester; "Screw with my little girl, and you won�t have to worry about a god getting hold of you." You choose to do some things, and you won�t have to wait to get judged by any god. Any good citizen with a gun and the guts to make a stand can judge you to death. End of story.

The problem with this statement is the failure to realize that real judgement only comes after death(1). Death itself is not a judgement. I think this is a little off topic anyway. (sighs)


Reference:
1. Luke 12:4-5
I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

God never created a religion called Christianity,Judaism,Muslim, Hinduism, Budhism,Catholocism or any other New Age spawn of it. "Course in Miracles" "The Light" etc etc

At one time in ancient sumeria god was plural "gods" which leads me to the conclusion documented history has been edited to some degree. I have heard theories on why we are in Iraq, Syria next perhaps. gods(beings that have a better handle on technology) than humans.

The theory states we are in Iraq and or ancient Sumeria, Mesopotamia to destroy evidence linking (the gods) plural to the leaders of today.


www.reptoids.com...

www.exopolitics.org...

Could all these highly trained individuals be lying? Why would they claim such things?

Astronauts:
Major Gordon Cooper
Donald Slayton
Major Robert White
Joseph A. Walker
Commander Eugene Cernan
Ed White & James McDivitt
James Lovell and Frank Borman
Neil Armstrong & Edwin Aldrin
Maurice Chatelain
Scott Carpenter

perso.wanadoo.fr...

Originally posted by project_pisces
At one time in ancient sumeria god was plural "gods" which leads me to the conclusion documented history has been edited to some degree.

How has it been edited (in so far as the politics)? Sumerian belief is well documented as is later Babylonian religion.

members.bellatlantic.net...


It is no secret that they worshipped many dieities. So did the Romans, the Greeks, The Egyptians, the Vikings and a multitude of other religions.

And what is the connection between worshipping plural gods and freewill?


[Edited on 24-3-2004 by Leveller]

God is dead man. "Do what thou want, as long as you don't hurt others."

All that mathers is the present.

personally i think the idea of a wrathfull god comes from the primitive idea that natural disaters happen because god is angry. although if you wanna get into some more far fetched theories, the old testiment god was actually an evil alien race that caused great disasters too keep the human race in servitude. this is just a personal theory of mine though and there is no solid evidence to back it up.

as far as free will is concerned though, i believe that we were given free will so we could be entitled to make mistakes. i mean, how would we ever learn right from wrong if we didn't # up from time to time.

[Edited on 24-3-2004 by mutehalo]

Originally posted by Dru
I'm a christian but I do have majors problems with Christianty.

You know I hate to say it it but a lot of the time I hate God and the whole Christian thing. Read Job and tell me you're not sickened. Ruining you most loyal worshiper's life for a bet with Satan?!? And this is the GOOD guy?!

Or take this little situation. There's two guys. The first one is a loving caring, wonderful man who's spent his whole life helping others. He gives money to charities, he takes in and nurses back to health hurt animals, he helps little old lady across the street. He's the nicest friendliest man you'll ever meet. He's teh type of person everyone wants as a best friend. But he's not Christian. Or he's gay or any other of the things that Christians find wrong.

Now take guy number two. He's a cruel rotten, evil man. Since he was a child he's broken every law he can manage, he steals, kills, rapes, and does every bad thing possible. He's made it his life gole to break every rule, comment every sin, and invent some new ones if he can. Then in jail say he finds God. Gets saved and becomes a Christian. Then by what the Bible says Guy number two gets into heaven but guy number one doesn't.

Does that seem like a loving good God? Let the guy who's done nothing but good suffer in hell forever but the guy who's done nothing but bad gets to live in Heaven forever?

To me the whole Christian thing a lot of the time makes God sound like a toddler having a fit. "You won't do what I say? You won't follow me? Then suffer forever!!!"

What really truly good God would send MOST of the world to hell just for not worshiping him? What good God would send good and loving people to Hell just because HE made them love the same gender? I can't and won't believe the real God is like that. Cause if he is I'd rather suffer in Hell then spend forever with someone like that.

*sits back and waits to be flamed for her post*

You shouldn't be flamed for these thoughts. They're very valid and worthy of discussing. Yes, why would God condemn homosexuality and yet, create people who were clearly born gay? In most cases it is not a choice. Who would choose such a difficult life? Not many! As far as the bible states it - being gay is not the sin, its acting on the homosexual feelings. (All sex outside the bounds of marriage is a sin, according to the good book.)



[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]