ATS...money or members? or both?

Don't stroke on me access denied. I was referencing a perfectly good site where for whatever reason some want to know everybodies bidness. Your response was quite over the top.

reply to post by Mr Gone


Hiyah Mr. Gone,

First of all, all I have to say is, give me a break

If the people who owned this web site were strictly in it for the money, they wouldn't OWN a conspiracy site, they'd start up a porn site like anyone else who wanted to make REAL cash!

Second of all, you're going off a web site that probably takes just general information and makes an educated GUESS at the worth and ad revenue etc. The determination of value is what they could get for it on the open market.

And why is it bad if they are making this much money or more, or less? They know if they go down the path that you are worrying that they will go down, they will soon lose the quality, integrity and the purpose of this site that they have put in such hard work to achieve in the first place.

The idiot, I mean Prophet Yaweh shot himself in the foot without any help from ATS. I can't believe you're even using that as an excuse because it just accentuates the point opposite of what you are fearing here: That if the owners of ATS only cared about ratings/ad revenue and money they'd be chasing after every crackpot like that con man and splashing it all over ATS.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by LateApexer313]

Originally posted by Mr Gone
Not sure how accurate this is, but it is estimated that abovetopsecret.com (just the domain name alone) has a net worth of $396,616.30. That's alot for a domain name.
Here are the stats from www.websiteoutlook.com...

abovetopsecret.com Estimated Worth $396616.3 USD

Net Worth : $396616.3
Daily Pageview : 180357
Daily Ads Revenue : $543.31

Last updated 3 Days ago

First of all, if you look at our own Stats Page, you'll see that their traffic estimates are actually low.

Secondly, their ad revenue estimate is also off. Imagine, if you will, that such a service would estimate ad revenue based on generic Internet-wide averages based on the typical value of a page-view across all content areas. Now, imagine that some content areas will get much more per page view than others... for example, a very-popular celebrity news site would earn much more per page-view than a site about fly fishing. Now imagine how that might apply to a site that focuses on provocative conspiracies, UFOs, paranormal, etc.


However, some posts in this thread have severely underestimated the cost of keeping ATS up and running. Here's some data to consider...

We lease three quad-core web servers with 2GB RAM and fast hard drives, with dual gigabyte optical networking cards. These are clustered under a dedicated load balancing solution with a custom script to preserve user sessions.

We also lease one 16-core, 32GB RAM, RAID-10 server with six 15k RPM hard drives that was a custom build by our provider.

And we lease another quad-core server with 1GB RAM for auxiliary purposes.

We're also using well beyond stock capacity of the highest-end service on global content caching network that serves up our images, some audio, and some video.

Our September traffic data is on track to have delivered just over 22 terabytes of content by the end of the month (August was 19.5). If you look into the basic costs of most of these services from as many providers as you like, you'll quickly see that our bandwidth is well-beyond typical contract allowances, and the costs of exceeding the cap gets pricey.

On top of that, we have a contract security/IT firm to stay on top of updates and management of the hardware... in addition to add-ons to our hosting contracts that provide high-capacity storage for our backups.


And with all that in mind, and all that great hardware, we're currently operating at a point that's getting close to exceeding the server farm we have now. An update with a leased-system provider (which we've been using for 5 years now), is out of the question as our needs would go well-beyond what can be leased (database clustering and load balancing). So the only next upgrade path available to us is the purchase of our own hardware, rack, custom deployment, and colocation facility... which will have a cost-of-entry in excess of $40,000 (just to get it all ready to run).

Then factor in these things...

- We've been investing in getting ATS MIX offline and on-air

- We've invested in a cash advance for a best-selling author to write our first book (who currently has a book on the NYT best-seller list... consider what that cost us)

- We invested in getting an investigation crew to Gilliland ranch

- We're investing in other offline ventures that may result in announcements soon


While ad revenue, and revenue from other sources, are vitally important to keeping the ATS machine running, I believe that every action of ours has clearly demonstrated that the "ATS machine" exists to provide our members with ever-improving opportunities to have their say, and expect that we will do our best to make sure as many people as possible are listening. All our investments in expanding ATS and in offline projects are tightly focused on promoting the content of our members to as broad an audience as possible, online and off.


[edit on 14-9-2008 by SkepticOverlord]

Well at least now lets hope he gets the point that the money is worth spent.

I'm not sure if the original poster is upset about the possibility that ATS might make the owner money or if s/he thinks that money will corrupt the site, but either seems misplaced in my opinion. I feel pretty confident that the people who started this site did so because they truly think there are many unexplained things in the universe that need to be questioned and looked at with a skeptical eye. Surely the site didn't start out as big as it is now, and has grown because of its excellent reputation, word of mouth, google hits, and even a bit of advertising.
I'm not worried about ATS becoming tainted because of the money, it would be pretty obvious when that happens and when relevant threads are closed for questionable reasons.
As far as if the site makes, for the people who thought it up, went to the trouble to create it, and keep it running, a bit of money in the process, then good for them! Good ideas deserve to be rewarded as far as I am concerned.

[edit on 14/9/2008 by xtradimensions]

[edit on 14/9/2008 by xtradimensions]

Not that I understand any of it SO. You could talk techno to me all night lol.
I like shiny things.
Carry on brother.

In order to generate the type of numbers you're talking about, ATS owners need to keep the interest of their viewing audience. They don't need to "make stuff up" to do that. There are plenty of conspiracies going on. Anyone with one eye open should be able to see that.

They also go to some expense and personal risk to be able to supply the information provided on this quality site.

1) They don't charge you for that privilege.

2) The MEMBERS usually start the threads, not administrators, so if anyone is making anything up, it's us, not them. The admins. go to great lengths to ensure that we all receive quality information and not made up stuff.

3) It's none of anyone's business how much money they make.

It's disconcerting to me to see so many threads of late questioning the administration here; their motives; their integrity, etc. I commend them all for their fortitude in putting up with a bunch of self-indulgent, whinning character assasins. And I don't know if mods get paid or not. I just put that info in the category of "not my business". If not, they all need to be nominated for sainthood. (or checked for masochistic tendencies. lol)

I think that the OP completely underestimates the amount of time and energy it takes to run this site, especially during an election. The amigos are not just ghost owners who pop in once and a awhile when they feel like it. They are 100% involved on a daily basis, it's not just a little side job or hobby that they enjoy in their 'down time'. And when it comes to running this amazing site I don't think there is such a thing as down time.

I love this FREE site and totally appreciate the time and effort that they spend each and every day to make it what it is. And if it generates a little revenue from advertising, then I see no problem in that because I see no reason to think that it is being used for anything other than improving the quality of ATS.

I'm feeling the need to take back every bad thing I said about the creepy "Mirrors" ad, no...that was creepy

Rush

I would not dare to speak for SO but consider this, in 10 years ATS has gone from a hobby that had little to no financial benefit and personal costs in determining income was all on 1040 forms with little to no write offs.

When ATS became (that is I finally noticed) Above Network LLC, I knew that expenses and revenue had grown to the point of incorperation into a LLC was needed. I do not think that any of the three (plus one) amigos have retired although given the amount of what is now work involved with the site and offline ventures is becoming more and more encompassing. So to have a bit of profit after expenses are paid as a reward for all that it done behind the scenes to keep the boat afloat is reasonable and expected as I don't think SO is an oxygenarian and likes to eat once and a while.

A few months ago, I offered to Dave and Johnny to do voice over work for ATS Mix on radio for free. Given old acting experiences and a few stories from personal experiences Dave was interested but given my location and lack of access to professional studio equipment they have nothing to offer me at this time to do but reserve the right to ask in the future.

You see, I know the potential for ATS Mix radio's sucess and know where it could lead in the future. And I would gamble free content for the future possibility of a career change or even a pay-per-play contract to foster future investments in other projects such as an ATS TV Channel featuring programing of various sorts (documentries, investigations, interviews and yes sit-coms and dramas with topical flavorings). The gamble being that they decide the risks involved going beyond a show to a full channel of content on say XM/Sirius was too much and stayed with just ATS Mix.

As for me, I came to ATS for the first time following a link looking up information on JFK for a pen an paper RPG game that I actually never ran. I stayed due to the content ATS offered, I joined because of the members and the moderators. ATS is an open environment dispite having to crack down on a couple of issues. Both of these have a root cause of an external group using the forums to promote an agenda.

Originally posted by jpm1602
Don't stroke on me access denied. I was referencing a perfectly good site where for whatever reason some want to know everybodies bidness. Your response was quite over the top.

Honey I was Replying to the OP..not you.
I actually agree with you.
One of your stars is from me.
Sorry to confuse.

dont forget that a decent dedicated server can cost anywhere from 100 to 200 bucks a months and thats just for one

Originally posted by Kr0nZ
dont forget that a decent dedicated serve...

Actually... much more
www.softlayer.com...

Quarterly net profit reports from the last 10 years would send shivers up many members spines I would imagine. Especially the last couple years!

img55.imageshack.us... 2002 No Adds on forum!
img395.imageshack.us... 2003 1 Add on forum
img79.imageshack.us... 2004 1 top banner add
img371.imageshack.us... 2005 2 Adds
img176.imageshack.us... 2006 2-3 Adds

2008 I currently count 5 Adds Plus Google Ad sense. Yes ATS has grown massive, but don't forget data storage, bandwidth cost and hardware has all gotten cheaper as ATS gets bigger.

I remember donating to ATS paypal account many years ago

"Don't tell me what your intentions are. Show me where you spend your money and I'll tell you what they are."

Originally posted by Mr Gone
So my question to you all is, at what point does ATS stop becoming about members and start becoming about generating ad revenue?

Why must it be about one or the other? Why can't it be about the members AND revenue? Whatever the point that it stops being about members and quality, I am completely convinced that they haven't crossed it.

What's to stop ATS from just making up a bunch of stuff to generate traffic to increase their ad revenue?

Integrity.

The way that the new investigation is plastered all over the site makes it seem like a pretty big event that ATS is proud of.

As well they should be. I would be. I would be shouting from the rooftops.

The way the investigation is presented makes it seem like it is geared to make the site money and increase it's popularity.

Is there something WRONG with making money?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say ATS does this, but merely, what's to stop them from doing this?

Again. Integrity.

Well I just realized that ATS in a way is no different from Prophet Yahweh in that the purpose of their business is to generate money.

What is the purpose of most businesses? How many people are in business - and sink their time, energy and money into it - just because of the fun?

That's my opinion, anyway.

I don't understand why it's such a bad thing for the owners to make money from, this thread makes no sense to me at all.

Im assuming that this is probably their full time job, who dedicate alot of time and money in the running of this site, maintaining it, and continually providing free access and membership. Why can't they make money from it to support themselves?

This by all means does not make them sell outs or corporate slaves, internet sites are bound to generate an income as they progress and get bigger, why does ATS have to be an exception. Becuase the content in the site, and the alternative thinking that is encouraged by it?

You mention the mods do it for free. Well nearly all site mods do it for free, it is a privilege to be asked, and shows your an outstanding member of the site. Im sure if they didn't want to be mods, they would not of accepted the role.

The more money the site produces, means the bigger it will expand and grow, and will further the experience for the members.

i think the only thing i have to say is congratulations to the owners. They provide us free entertainment, and i hope they are all making good livings for themselves!

Whether or not it's really any of the OP's business aside, there is no need to jump down his throat the way a lot of posters seem to have done. I commend him for having the balls (assuming he is indeed male) to ask the question in the first place! Folks on this site are always on about how questions need to be asked about governments and what-not, but when ATS itself is asked a possibly awkward question you all go nuts!

[edit on 14/9/08 by sotp]

[edit on 14/9/08 by sotp]

Ok 2 edits and they haven't shown up for some reason! I just wanted to add that the OP makes a very good point about the faking of info to make money, it happens all over the net, let's be honest. I don't think for a minute that ATS would ever do such a thing, but he has every right to make said point.

www.websiteoutlook.com...

Thanks for the link.

some facts

Google $1.2 Billion

Micr$oft $185million (pawned)

WWW.GOD.com just $18.00 per day (thats not enough for a Religion)

Yahoo $2.41 BILLION winner

oh and nice site SO and wd mods.

claps