Boeing 737 with 82 passenges crashes near Perm, Russia

reply to post by manson_322




manson, hate to break it to you, but Boeing has building airplanes FAR LONGER than Airbus.

Personally, I'm not entirely comfortable with the Airbus design concept of complete FBW.

I flew the first Airbus' foray into the aviation realm...the A-300. Very traditional, as it comes to flight controls. Typical control-to-cable-hydraulic actuator tech.

I later flew the DC-10....similar tech....both flew well, but each has different personalities.

Most 'widebodies' feel pretty similar....the designers go that for us, and the extra mass makes for a smoother 'feel'.

Modern Airbuses scare me, because it is ALL fly-by-wire.

I sat on the jumpseat of an A320, long time (15 years?) ago. We felt a slight vibration, not normal. The two guys flying seemed unconcerned, they checked the logbook...and said, "yeah, it was written up several times...signed off as "ground check OK"

Well, this got my attention, so I asked. (I have never had any training on the A320, so I asked)

Seems there was a glitch in the elevators....it's like, since they are completely FBW, they kept 'chattering' around the commanded position.

NOW, the elevator is THE MOST important flight control on an airplane.

Made me a little nervous, at first. But the guys who were flying, who knew the airplane and its systems, didn't seem concerned...so I relaxed a bit....but was very happy to get back on the ground!

Why do they purchase from Boeing?

Because for the most part, Aeroflot, can fly more economically with Boeing aircraft. That's why. There is a reason for these business decisions, they are NOT snap decisions. As for me, I feel equally safe in all aircraft - causes for crashes have since been eliminated. Statistics agree with me. Now can we stop with this East vs West nonsence?

/ Boeing 777 & 787 are fully Fly by Wire... they only have soft limits instead of Airbus hard limits.

EDIT: Not snap decisions. LOL.

[edit on 14/9/2008 by C0bzz]

Here's a no comment video from the crash site.

The Aeroflot plane was flying from Moscow and crashed as it was landing in the Siberian town.

It happened in an unpopulated area and no casualties were reported on the ground.

Investigators are flying from Moscow to try and establish what caused the crash but there is no suggestion of an attack or sabotage.

"There were 88 people on board, 82 passengers and six crew," said Emergencies Ministry spokeswoman Irina Andrianova.

"All of them died. There were no casualties on the ground."

Local media said firefighters had extinguished a blaze at the crash site.

Some reports said the airliner crashed in a gully, a short distance from apartment blocks.

Terror suspected in Aeroflot crash which killed all 88 people aboard

DEBKAfile’s counter-terror sources report from Moscow that a Jewish family and a Russian general were among the 88 passengers and crew killed in the Aeroflot Boeing 737 crash at Perm, Siberia, Saturday, Sept. 13. The plane was in flight from Moscow.

Russian authorities report the plane’s sudden disappearance off the radar at the moment cockpit communications shut off indicate the craft may have exploded in mid-air. They suspect terrorism as the cause of the crash because -

1. At least five passengers bought tickets but did not turn up for the flight. Security officials are trying to locate their addresses and sifting through the wreckage spread over a large area for possible unaccompanied luggage.

2. One of the passengers has been identified as Gen. Gennadiy Troshev, who was esteemed as a Russian hero for quelling the Chechen rebellion and believed to be targeted for death.

3. According to our sources, a Jewish - or possibly Israeli - family was aboard the doomed flight. They have been named as Ephraim Nakhumov, 35, his wife Golda, 24, and their two daughters, Ayalah, aged 7, and Eva, aged four. Their place of residence is sought.

(DEBKA)

Very sad news. Condolences for relatives/friends of those people.
I hear in local news that Russian general that died was somehow connected to Chechnya conflict. I hope that it is just a coincidence.
Anybody know if it is correct that there was no contact with an aircraft for half an hour before the explosion?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Tupelov are built like a tank. But isn't it interesting that Aero Flot has turned to buying airplanes from the 'West'??

After Soviet Union fell apart the commercial aircraft industry had major setbacks, and there were many issues with continuing production of new aircraft. In addition to this people in the West had a negative perception of Russian jets, and Aeroflot preferred to sustitute Boeings and Airbus for international flies. But Aeroflot and other airlines still operate hundreds of Tu-154, mostly within Russia and CIS routes. You likely won't see these jets in Western Europe. Aeroflot still has more Russian planes overall.

The thing about the Tu-154, is that to Westerns it is a scary plane. The engines are abnormally loud, especially during take-off. The seating is more cramped. And most of the flight instruments are not computerized as with new planes. However the Tu-154, and it is one of the fastest commercial jets in the world.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
It was a landing accident. What were the weather conditions at the time? What ground-based facilities does that airport at Perm have?

Well the news report that there was an explosion, most likely while the plane was still in the air. This explains why debris is scattered over 4 kilometers. The plane made contact regarding an emergency landing prior to that, with possible engine failure. How an engine failure would lead to an explosion in the air I have no clue.

The accident occured in early morning. The terrain is not mountanous.


And even though the airline was called Aeroflot-Nord, it is not Aeroflot. The company operating this jet has cooperation with Aeroflot, and is allowed to use its name. Recent news report that Aeroflot has just made a decision to withdraw the contract, and Aeroflot-Nord will not be able to use Aeroflot in its name. This was supposedly done for PR reasons.

Just to add:

Aeroflot said 21 foreign nationals were among those killed -- nine from Azerbaijan, five from Ukraine and one person each from France, Switzerland, Latvia, the United States, Germany, Turkey and Italy. Seven children died in the crash and Russian news agencies said one of the dead was General Gennady Troshev who in 2000 commanded the Russian army against rebels in the north Caucasus region of Chechnya.

General Gennady Troshev
More about Gennady Troshev

Not saying there was anything 'Conspiracy'ish' going on here but thought I would add this to the thread anyways. Sounds slightly odd to me.

Original News Bulletin

Video News Report of the Crash

Sad loss of life, condolencies to the families of those lost.




[edit on 14-9-2008 by StarTraveller]

Reports from locals:

The airplane had exploded in the air, approximately 1,300 meters above ground or even lower. Before exploding it flew above an apartment block, where the woken up people heard a very powerful explosion and saw burning debris falling right near the building.

The debris field is now said to be over 10 kilometers, with tiny fragments being found a considerable distance from the crash. This indicates how strong the explosion was.

Interesting note: some civilians thought that war with U.S. had broken out, and that they were being bombed.

Aeroflot reports that the plane has been fully serviced and maintained, and never had any malfunctions or problems.

Innitial investigation is leaning towards an engine failure as reson for the crash. The explosion might have occured because of the engine. The plane was making an approach during poor visibility, and the first landing was aborted.




Sources, pictures and video on following links (in Russian):

www.kp.ru...

www.kp.ru...

[edit on 14-9-2008 by maloy]

Video from RussiaToday. One of the witnesses described the plane as looking "like a comet". Seems like there was an explosion, and that it was in flames before it hit the ground.

Sorry for my poor English - I am Italian.

The video reports our television has shown clearly support those claiming that the plane exploded while still high in the air.

Nevertheless, the Russian Authorities claimed since the very beginning that the plane exploded only after crashing onto the ground, due to a mechanical failure in the right side engine and that any terroristic attempt is to be absolutely excluded.

This sounds very strange and suspiscious, as if they wanted to keep a low profile not to foster the tensions after the Georgian affair.

It is also interesting that an Aeroflot spokeswoman stated that the company will not release any official comment until after the investigations are concluded, but they won't exclude at this very moment the possibility of a terroristic action.

A few witnesses being interviewed also insisted that the plane exploded while afloat, on the contrary of the official claims.

As to the planes, I am fully confident in both Boeing and Airbus. I have also been flying in a TU 154, a nice though now oblsolete plane. It is however well know that its engines are at a power limit with the mass of the plane, and this explains most accidents it has suffered. The most recent TU 154s use an improved version of the engines (they are known as respectively Soloviev or Kutnetzov, but cannot remember which one is the improved model). It is however obvious that one cannot squeeze but limited improvements out of an existing engine.

The BBC news website is reporting that the pilot was acting oddly and failing to follow the instructions of the flight controller, saying one thing but doing another. I wonder if this is possible evidence of a hijacking ?

news.bbc.co.uk...

I still cant help but think that this General that was on board is some how tied into this 'Crash'. Maybe clutching at straws so to speak but then I said the same about 9/11 and look where thats at

Note: I am not saying he hijacked the plain if thats what actually happened.

[edit on 15-9-2008 by StarTraveller]

US experts are now in Russia to investigate the crash. Relatives of an American who died in the crash, have also arrived in Perm


RIA Novosti: U.S. experts arrive in Russia to investigate Boeing crash