Are You Sure We Are Able To Travel OB?

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Maybe all we do is dive deeper into our conscious and see what we want to see, because the planes we visit, are 99% made up of our imagination and our conscious thoughts; maybe we really aren't seperating our conscious from our physical, maybe we're just imagining. All we could possibly be doing maybe, just be going as I mentioned earlier diving deeper into our conscious and therefore our thoughts which in turn makes the planes we visit. I'm not trying to disprove the idea of OBE's and AP, but I'm just trying to play devil's advocate for a minute and it seems like a pretty interesting debate to me . Maybe the saying is true after all maybe "it's all a figment of our imagination."

Originally posted by TheCatalyst
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Maybe all we do is dive deeper into our conscious and see what we want to see, because the planes we visit, are 99% made up of our imagination and our conscious thoughts; maybe we really aren't seperating our conscious from our physical, maybe we're just imagining. All we could possibly be doing maybe, just be going as I mentioned earlier diving deeper into our conscious and therefore our thoughts which in turn makes the planes we visit. I'm not trying to disprove the idea of OBE's and AP, but I'm just trying to play devil's advocate for a minute and it seems like a pretty interesting debate to me

. Maybe the saying is true after all maybe "it's all a figment of our imagination."

Oh the irony that is reality...

Now, what is the difference between that which is in your subconscience and tha which you consider to be reality? What IS real anyway? How do you know this world isn't in your mind? Have you not created worlds in your dreams before, no matter how strange or incompatible with this one? Have you also noticed that we only realise that we were asleep, AFTER we wake up?

Perhaps EVERYTHING is simply a dream, a consciousness, an illusion, and is created for the sole purpose of providing lessons to different consciousness units (entities, beings.. have your pick). There is a difference between reality that we perceive, and what IS. This may get a little confusing, if one considers subjective realities, and that many illusions and lies may indeed be TRUE in certain individual subjective realities. In fact, the only time something can ever be FALSE, it seems (in my humble opinion), is if the definition is restricted to any specific reality, as it is then FALSE for only that specific reality. This makes sense if you consider the idea that ALL possibilities exist, and our "reality" is but ONE of those possibilities. Well at least our PERCEPTION of same.

Ah.. that funky word, perception again. How is your perception altered in your dreams? How is it different in what you think is REALITY (note, only after you wake up!). Imagine you're writing on ATS one day, and suddenly everything blacks out and you wake up and yawn. You'll then think you had a rather vivid dream, won't you? Have you ever had a dream where you'd wake up, and after you get up out of bed, you realise you're still in a dream? Then you wake up YET AGAIN, and you think "finally, that was weird".. and suddenly you wake up AGAIN, and maybe a few more times before you actually WAKE UP.

Each time that you wake up, you think you are now in reality, until that is, you wake up one more time. Therefore, my question would be, how many levels of 'awareness' would you think there might exist... that you can wake up from and access higher ones? What I mean is, your current level of awareness is sharper and clearer than most of your dreams, right? Well, with this consideration in mind, perhaps when one reaches a new level of awareness, one experiences what could be called an "awakening" process. Now, what do you think is the limit to how much you can be aware of all at once, before you can say.. THIS IS IT, I know everything!

The irony may persist, as just as you think you know EVERYTHING, you wake up again and see that what you knew previously was NOTHING compared to what REALLY constitutes reality. Just some thoughts...

Edit: Considering that... does the idea that ALL possibilities are manifested and TRUE on infinite dimentions (realities) make sense? For example, if you consider our perception of the passage of what we call "time", do you KNOW what will happen in the future? Now, you do at least realise that there are many possibilities in the future, many possible things that can HAPPEN based on choices that are done NOW, correct? Well then, perhaps ALL of those possibilities are manifested, as ALL the choices are really made, except that you're only AWARE of one possibility? The others remain in "potential", although only for YOU. Your "alternate self" may exist in one of those "potentials" and our CURRENT reality is only a "potential" for that alternate self. Doesn't sound like such a crazy idea at all... if you take time and think about it. The more I thought about this, the more it made sense. But to each his own...

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by lilblam]

ok so have someone put an object on a table or something without you knowing what it is, then do an obe and look for it then check if you were right

Originally posted by weeman
ok so have someone put an object on a table or something without you knowing what it is, then do an obe and look for it then check if you were right

Well, let's try to think through this logically... and maybe we could get some clue as to what an OBE may be.. but only a CLUE.

When someone puts an object on a table at a remote location from me, what is the limit to how many possible different objects he can place? Well, let's say even 2 identical objects (like 2 chairs) are counted as 2 different objects, because their atomic composition may not be identical (most likely is not). Therefore, how many combinations of ATOMS can one create and then place on this table? Would seem to be limited by the SIZE of the object and the size of the table. Well, let's expand this idea and say that there are INFINITE possibilities as to what object one can place on the table... there are absolutely NO LIMITS as to what this person can put on a table at a remote location, just to make the "guess" hard for me.

Well now, if I was doing to guess, it seems like my chances of getting it right are 1 out of Infinity, in other words NONE. Any number, when divided by infinity, provides a LIMIT that approaches 0 (in calculus terms). In more every-day language, when you divide a Numerator by a Denomenator (in 1/3, 1 is the numerator, 3 is the denominator), then the BIGGER the denomenator is, the closer the answer gets to 0.

Therefore, if the Denominator is INFINITY (which is NOT a number, but really a theoretical quantity.. as it can never be reached), then the answer will come INFINITELY CLOSE to 0, which is really 0.

Now, how would I KNOW what the person placed on this table? It seems that one needs to first consider how do we EXIST in this "focus point" and experience this reality, out of INFINITY of realities, to perhaps get a clue. What I mean is, why is it that out of ALL POSSIBLE REALITIES (infinitey.. no limit to possibilities) are we experiencing THIS particular one. Could THIS reality somehow be identified, located, and ACCESSED from the pool of infinity? Apparently if we EXIST IN IT, we accessed it - otherwise how would we reside in it?

The access of THIS particular situation in the NOW (current reality) may involve consciousness, and in fact, does - if one can grasp the idea of what constitutes any given "reality" in the first place. This is extremely difficult to understand, and even more difficult to explain, as our minds are linear, and our awareness is very limited and "stunted" so to speak. Well, we're somehow in THIS reality, out of infinity of possible potential realities. If there is any way to ACCESS this reailty again, you might extend your consciousness to any "location" within this reality.

Now, how would one access this reailty. Well, when you IMAGINE something in your mind, do you not access a possible reality? Is your DREAM not a possible reality? Well, perhaps consciousness (imagination, the mind) is what not only CREATES the reality, but it also is the way to access it by identifying it with all the parameters that constitute this reality. As you do that, your consciousness transfers you to THAT particular reality, the one you imagined, or in other words, accessed.

So, if one can manage to "lock on" to THIS reality (and time in this case is irrelavant, we're on ZERO TIME as we do this), we can then "save it" and later mentally return to it (memory). Space, when seen from proper perspective (higher awareness than our current one) doesn't exist any more than time. You can see this by looking at SPEED and how one determines it: Speed = Distance / Time. Once you are able to manipulate TIME, or "your focus-point progression through any given reality", one can infinitely increase one's speed. When time approaches 0, your speed approaches infinity, and this effectively REMOVES any distances - they cease to exist.

To wrap this up, if one can learn to expand one's AWARENESS to see BEYOND what our current senses experience - which means to zoom out from our focus point, we can simultaneously perceive both, space, time, and "potential realities" and are able to pick and choose WHICH we want MANIFESTED. This is called "variability of physicality" and we will most likely not understand the concept until 4th density is reached - and THAT is also opening up a can of worms that I cannot really PROVE to you just yet.

However, you can use an analogy of a DVD movie, and the fact that all 2 hours of it are located on ONE DVD simultaneously. It's when we "insert the disk" and focus on any particular focus-point in the reality of this movie, does the perception of "time flow" manifest itself. In this way, we can KNOW or SEE what's in any other SPACE or TIME in this DVD movie simply by looking at EVERY SINGLE FRAME at the same time. Sorry to do this to a linear mind, but believe me, there's no easy way to explain it.

In fact, what I said above may make little or NO sense to anybody at all, as 4th density concepts are EXTREMELY COMPLICATED for our minds. This is like explaining algebra to a dog - it is nearly impossible, and most likely ENTIRELY impossible. I do not claim to UNDERSTAND a lot of this as much as it may appear, I simply spend a lot of time THINKING about these concepts, running them through my mind, and applying them to concepts that I DO understand to try to squeeze something with the complexity of an ocean into a glass of water. It's the best I can do in this existance, at this time. Sorry


Edit: Ah yes, so about the OBE. The concept, as far as I understand it, is like this:

1. You access a higher level of awareness by tapping into your subconscience, which is linked and really consists of EVERYTHING that exists (cannot prove that yet, sorry).
2. You locate our CURRENT reality out of the infinite pool of all that exists, like a specific ripple from an OCEAN of intertwining ripples.
3. You FOCUS on this reality, and in turn, it manifests itself.
4. Because you're not bound by any space/time, you also FOCUS on the "location" that your buddy put a thing on a table.
5. You translate your perception of your "buddy", the "thing he put there", and the "table" into terms that your mind can understand - into VISION, SOUND, etc... senses and concepts that your human mind can understand.

6. You place that TRANSLATED VERSION into the memory of your mind, and you basically put yourself OUT of the "trance state" and shut off the direct link to your subconscience.

7. When you come out of the "trance-like state", or even sleep, you access your memory (well just remember) and you now suddenly remember what you SAW on your friend's table.

All that is just a complicated process that TRANSLATES into what appears much simpler to us... our "ethereal body pops out, hauls its azz over to your buddy, checks out the table, returns, pops back in, and we snap outta it".

However, the process *MAY* be far more complicated and involved, as what I just described about the ethereal body is simply our PERCEPTION of what happens. What I described earlier may be somewhere AROUND what COULD possibly be REALLY happening, although this TOO is a condensed and truncated version to suit our understanding.

I hope this helped :\

[Edited on 19-3-2004 by lilblam]