Same to ya but more of it.

This is for the people who are fervently trying to help me understand that Christianity is for losers/morons/idiots: Why is it important to you to point out a few aspects of the Bible in which you've had this huge lightbulb go off while reading, thinking that you've finally hit on the one thing that will get the minds of "loser Christians" back on track? Why do you care? Seriously, do you think that if you continue to tell me that Jesus lied about this or that and certain things could not have happened (were you there?), that I am going to turn my heart away from MY TRUE GOD, and ask you to tell me more? I'm trying to get a frame-of-reference for it. There's people who call psychic hot lines believing they will find love, money or happiness, which charge big fees to their phone bill, but until they start asking me to pay those bills, it's no sweat off of my back.

We get the same tired posts day after day about how this or that could not have possibly happened. Yeah yeah, we hear you --- You don't believe. Why is it important to you that I not believe either?

If your intent is truly to "help" then why don't you offer assistance to those who see "shadow people" crawling all over the place, the moon changing colors/shape, people being followed by blonde-haired half human/half aliens, etc? I mean let's get our priorities straight here.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by Bombeni]

It's because of their insecurities. Why can't they let believers believe? Does it hurt them? No. But there is a hidden security or I should say insecurity in their souls that don't want God to be real so they need to attack the faith of others to subdue this fear that he might be real.

others are sincere but don't go about it in the right way. They ask questions with a judgemental tone like (look what God did, he's evil ) ect.... and this goes back to what st Paul said that in the end times men would blaspheme things they didn't understand instead of trying to understand.

The fact is that we believe in these teachings.

" Love thy God with all thy heart "

" Love thy enemies as thyself "

" blessed are the pure of heart and peacmakers "


Now seriously ask this question to yourself athiest. these are teachings that cannot be attacked yet they come from the same God of the OT who you use alot in the attacks.

God cannot be that dumb to blatantly contradict himself and teach murder in the OT, and then Love, pure love in the NT.

You see God always had that heart even in the OT, but a few sentences doesn't tell the story of the circumstances of those events. God created love and the heart, not us.

God also reads hearts and knows who will grow up evil with evil intentions and this is something we don't do. This is WHY christians don't judge God by few sentences while others do who are not christian.

It's all about humility and the realization that God reads hearts and created love and we trust him because our love comes from him. how can the human judge be more better than the one who gave it to them?


Sorry for going off on this topic, I aggre with the original poster.

peace.

reply to post by JesusisTruth

" Love thy enemies as thyself "

The Bible doesn't say this.

It DOES, say, however (emphasis mine):

Luke 10:25-37 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour (not ENEMIES...but NEIGHBOR) as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Come on Pretrib,

You're both right, yet both of you are wrong.

Jesus does in fact command us to love our enemies.

Matthew 5:44:

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

Ok, I meant love thy neighbors as thyself.

but loving thy enemies is also in there, I was wrong.

but you see nobody teaches these things. Everybody loves their own, their homeboys, their dogs, but loving enemies is the true test of angels, or what makes real angels.

Originally posted by Bombeni
We get the same tired posts day after day about how this or that could not have possibly happened. Yeah yeah, we hear you --- You don't believe. Why is it important to you that I not believe either?

Originally posted by Bombeni
We get the same tired posts day after day about how this or that could not have possibly happened. Yeah yeah, we hear you --- You don't believe. Why is it important to you that I not believe either?

Because if we want to live and participate in a healthy and rational society the individuals that compose said society should discourage irrational behavior such as belief without evidence. As such, it is of benefit to me that you do not hold unjustified beliefs that could potentially have a negative effect on my self or the rest of the community.

One example is abortion; certain religious fanatics try to infringe upon the freedom of others to enforce their unjustified religious persuasions.

If your belief cannot withstand criticism and skeptical reasoning then why have such beliefs in the first place?

Abortion is murder. We wouldn't be here if mom and dad said no to us. why should kids not have that chance?

taht's the most rational christian belief we have.


peace.

Originally posted by SilentGem

Originally posted by Bombeni
We get the same tired posts day after day about how this or that could not have possibly happened. Yeah yeah, we hear you --- You don't believe. Why is it important to you that I not believe either?

Originally posted by Bombeni
We get the same tired posts day after day about how this or that could not have possibly happened. Yeah yeah, we hear you --- You don't believe. Why is it important to you that I not believe either?

Because if we want to live and participate in a healthy and rational society the individuals that compose said society should discourage irrational behavior such as belief without evidence. As such, it is of benefit to me that you do not hold unjustified beliefs that could potentially have a negative effect on my self or the rest of the community.

One example is abortion; certain religious fanatics try to infringe upon the freedom of others to enforce their unjustified religious persuasions.

If your belief cannot withstand criticism and skeptical reasoning then why have such beliefs in the first place?

Irrational behavior? How do my beliefs equal irrational behavior? You can't take the handful of fanatics and label us all. Most Christians live out their lives never stepping on the toes of a nonbeliever. How can you call my beliefs unjustified? If I believe them, then certainly I have justified and reconciled my own truths to my satisfaction and it should be of no concern to you.

The last time I checked women could get an abortion anywhere across the USA. Did I give you any reason to believe I was an abortion activist? I don't even believe it is the duty of Christians to continually try to convert nonbelievers. I do believe the Gospel is supposed to be preached to the world in order to fulfill scripture, but that is not too far off. What I mean is, I believe that once the Gospel of Jesus has been preached to all remote areas of the world that is the only obligation of Christians; after that it is up to the individuals to choose. (“…choose you this day whom ye will serve…” Joshua 24.15).

If I may take the liberty to expand on your statement "said society should discourage irrational behavior such as belief without evidence" I can only revel in the words of Jesus Himself: Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed (John 20:29). Thanks for prompting me to recall those beautiful words left to us by God Himself who manifested in human flesh as the Savior Jesus in His vehement bid to save mankind.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Irrational behavior? How do my beliefs equal irrational behavior? You can't take the handful of fanatics and label us all. Most Christians live out their lives never stepping on the toes of a nonbeliever. How can you call my beliefs unjustified? If I believe them, then certainly I have justified and reconciled my own truths to my satisfaction and it should be of no concern to you.

Irrational beliefs, that is belief without and even contrary to evidence (creationists), breeds irrational behaviour in general. That’s not to say that every irrational belief necessarily leads to some direct peril, but that’s not the point.

You’re beliefs are unjustified because you have not provided evidence to support your belief. Whether or not you think your belief is justified to your self is irrelevant. If you were to believe the Earth is flat and kept that to your self I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about it. But the minute you start espousing your views about a flat Earth then I’ll be in your face giving my best arguments as to why you are wrong.

Originally posted by Bombeni
The last time I checked women could get an abortion anywhere across the USA. Did I give you any reason to believe I was an abortion activist? I don't even believe it is the duty of Christians to continually try to convert nonbelievers. I do believe the Gospel is supposed to be preached to the world in order to fulfill scripture, but that is not too far off. What I mean is, I believe that once the Gospel of Jesus has been preached to all remote areas of the world that is the only obligation of Christians; after that it is up to the individuals to choose. (“…choose you this day whom ye will serve…” Joshua 24.15).

I didn’t state you were an abortion activist. It was merely an example of what irrational beliefs can lead to. It clearly says so in the Bible that spreading the word and preaching is mandatory. If you’re preaching the word of the Bible then you are by proxy attempting to convert people.

Originally posted by Bombeni
If I may take the liberty to expand on your statement "said society should discourage irrational behavior such as belief without evidence" I can only revel in the words of Jesus Himself: Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed (John 20:29). Thanks for prompting me to recall those beautiful words left to us by God Himself who manifested in human flesh as the Savior Jesus in His vehement bid to save mankind.

You can’t prove your irrational belief is rational based upon scripture from the Bible. That’s like me trying to convince you Pink Invisible Elephants rules the universe because… the Pink Invisible Elephants told me so.


[edit on 5-9-2008 by SilentGem]

reply to post by SilentGem


Excuse me, although I already answered your misguided post thorougly and completely, let me again point out that YOU said "the individuals that compose said society should discourage irrational behavior such as belief without evidence" --- Belief without evidence hardly constitutes irrational behavior. You may be someone who believes you catch a cold from exposure to cold air. Lots of people believe that but science says no, you can't catch a cold that way, it is a virus. Now, you believing that does not equal irrational BEHAVIOR. It just denotes the fact that you believe it even though there is no EVIDENCE to prove it. You intimated in your post that Christians-in-general are prone to irrational behavior. I've worked at the same place 23 years; I don't know the spiritual beliefs of 90 percent of the people I work with and they don't know mine. I figure to each his own. Obviously you have heard the good word and choose to reject it. It doesn't conjure up irrational thoughts or urges in me, I assure you. You can rest easy.

reply to post by Bombeni
Fantastic post. Starred.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Come on Pretrib,

You're both right, yet both of you are wrong.

Jesus does in fact command us to love our enemies.

How am I wrong? What I said is exactly correct. Jesus NEVER SAID:
"Love thy enemies as thyself".

I apologize that I did not quote the Matt 5:44 reference, for lack of time, but what I said is exactly correct, albeit, some might say, "incomplete". I should have taken more time to split both verses out. Thank you for the other half!

Jesus told us to love our enemies, but He never called His enemies "neighbor" or "friend". He called them what they were.

When someone starts "mixing together" what Jesus Christ said and makes it into a type of a doctrine, all kinds of heresies pop up.

Jesus said:
Mark 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

Jesus also said:
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

I believe we are authorized to make a fair paraphrase of Scripture.

"Love your enemies" is a fair paraphrase of Matt 9:44
"Love your enemies as yourself and God and the unrepentant adulterer in your local church and your kids..." is NOT a fair paraphrase of Matt 9:44

It is adding something that doesn't belong.

BUT, I have to yield and note your (apparent?) rebuke to me, and ultimately agree with you: I SHOULD have taken the time to add the verse you quoted.
I have to believe that your response to me was meant with no maliciousness, but more along the lines of, "C'mon PreTribGuy, I KNOW you know better than to leave this out!"

I APPRECIATE the fact that you seem to hold me to a "higher standard"(?)
(At least, that is how I took it.)

reply to post by PreTribGuy
That's whay I said you were both right, yet both wrong.

Jesus didn't say "love your enemies as yourself" On that point you were correct.

However, at that point, you failed to acknowledge that Jesus did command us to love our enemies. On that point you were wrong.

You've since admitted to that, no biggie.

Basically, we are to love ALL. Friend, foe, neighbor, those far off in other lands.

Bombeni

You are fighting a war that cannot be won. Best advice to you is to ignore those who would try to belittle you for your beliefs.

Nobody can tell another person what to believe as far as faith. Those who would label someone as a loser, moron, or the like are merely projecting their own insecurities. It is rudeness at it's worst.

Just don't try to convert others to your beliefs unless they show a genuine interest in it. That can be as bad as belittling someone for their beliefs.

Just my .02