The Rise of the Fourth Reich commentary

I don't understand why electronics has anything to do with time travel. Was just hoping you had something to offer other than saying we're all wasting our time here on ATS.

Sigh.

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I just busy reading the new book now and thoroughly enjoying it.
If some of Solomons treasure was melted down and ended up in the Mercers mine,well I might just be in luck....as all that Nazi bullion was melted down...except
I inherited a 1kg Nazi silver bar,that slipped into a Marines pocket,who later lost it to my dad,in a card game in the U.K
Although this is a museum piece,why it could even be some of the original silver from Solomons temple...wow!Text Black

(I personally don't believe there is any such thing as time, something I went into in some detail in another thread.)

I just got a copy of Jim's book though and I'm really enjoying it. I recently finished Rule by Secrecy and The Rise of the Fourth Reich makes a nice follow up to the earlier book.

At the moment I am trying to get used to the idea that the Germans actually built and tested atom bombs during WW2 and that the bomb dropped on Hiroshima may have been a German bomb. The rest of the book is going to have to be outstanding to top that information. So far it looks like another great Jim Marrs book.

reply to post by ipsedixit


It really isn't to surprising that the Germans developed the atom bomb. They had the heavy water plants, and this is most probably the very secret work many of the scientists were working on, along with the V2 rocket delivery systems. I am one who is skeptical they got very far with a flying disk, as they were very unstable to fly and the computer systems used to run a complicated system was over thirty years away.

The book I am reading now is Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock. He gets a lot of grief for what he writes, but so far no one has been able to answer the many questions he has brought up.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
At the moment I am trying to get used to the idea that the Germans actually built and tested atom bombs during WW2 and that the bomb dropped on Hiroshima may have been a German bomb. The rest of the book is going to have to be outstanding to top that information. So far it looks like another great Jim Marrs book.

That's in the book? Germans having build an a-bomb? Dear God! History recorded nothing like that. I saw a documentary once on the Discovery Channel where secret allied military units where on the hunt for German scientists in the final stages of the war. They even caught the head scientist and the reactor they were building and it turned out the scientists were on the wrong track constructing an a-bomb.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Geesh, what's next.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by TerraX]

reply to post by TerraX


They probably kept the atomic bombs top secret. It probably will stay that way if we used those same weapons on another country. The evidence is clearly there that they developed the A-Bomb before we did. The problem is most people talk about flying disks and foo fighters, when the Germans themselves thought the foo fighters belonged to us.

If the German scientists had perfected the V-2 delivery system a year in April of 1944, the outcome would have been very, very different.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
They probably kept the atomic bombs top secret.

The project itself was top secret, that doesn't imply that they had a working atomic bomb. Those are two entirely different things.

The evidence is clearly there that they developed the A-Bomb before we did.

What clear evidence? I haven't seen it. Did you read the links in my previous post? What's on record is that German scientists were working on an atomic bomb but never got to the working prototype stage. To suggest otherwise without providing sources is completely unfounded.

The problem is most people talk about flying disks and foo fighters, when the Germans themselves thought the foo fighters belonged to us.

That's right. And what does that say to you?

If the German scientists had perfected the V-2 delivery system a year in April of 1944, the outcome would have been very, very different.

In what context am I to see this? If you're talking about delivering an a-bomb using a V-2 there wouldn't have been any problems. With an a-bomb you can miss the target by 3-5 miles and it would still do the job, and that's aiming for specific targets - not cities which are many miles wide.

Here's some advice. Don't take Jim Marrs' conspiracy theories for granted. He's selling books and theories based on pure speculation. You get the 'exciting story', he gets the money.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by TerraX]

I had a real nice contribution to this thread all typed up when my computer crashed. Must remember to draft in notepad and save, save, save.

Sources on the a-bomb story are quoted. The most impressive one is from a German pilot who describes something he saw while flying near a test zone of some sort. If you read the description, quoted in The Rise of the Fourth Reich, it sounds very like the familiar mushroom cloud like aftermath of an atomic detonation with the spherical shock wave, and wierd colored clouds.

Other information quoted or alluded to backs up the notion that yes the Germans had a bomb and were testing it.

Don't know if it is true. It's a very murky area of discussion and overlaps somewhat with Operation Paperclip in that the Germans may have developed the bomb at a late point where some of the top dogs were already thinking of what they could use to barter to save their skins. The possibility is stated in the book that the first a-bomb dropped on Japan might have been a bomb the US got from the Germans.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by ipsedixit]

Here's a video on "Hitler's Bomb":

Part 1:



Part 2:



I could only find two parts to this video. I'm not sure if there is more.

[edit on 8-11-2008 by ipsedixit]

Here is a link to a Wikipedia article about a book on the subject of Hitler's bomb and at the bottom of the linked article there are more links to other articles.

en.wikipedia.org...

From the scientists description in part two of the video linked above, it would seem that the bombs they were working on might have been of a different design from the ones eventually produced at Los Alamos.

I ran across some speculation that a nuclear device may have been used in fighting on the Russian front around Kursk as well, by the Germans against the Russians.

I just want to add a couple of things in an edit:

Until recently the accepted view was that the Germans hadn't developed a bomb because they had made a gross miscalculation of the amount of U235 needed for a bomb. This was based on recordings secretly made of conversations between German physicists in England after the war with Germany was over and just after they learned of the first bomb dropped on Japan.

More information has since come to light:

physicsworld.com...

These criticisms of the Germans' scientific incompetence are apparently reinforced by the Farm Hall conversations, which reveal that Heisenberg initially responded to the news of Hiroshima with a flawed calculation of critical mass, although within a few days he had improved it and provided a very good estimate. However, there was other evidence that, no matter how Heisenberg responded at Farm Hall, he and his colleagues understood that atomic bombs would use fast-neutron chain reactions and that both plutonium and uranium-235 were fissionable materials.

For example, in February 1942 the German army officials who were responsible for weapons development described the progress of the uranium project in a report entitled "Energy production from uranium". This overview, which was discovered in the 1980s, drew upon all classified material from Hahn, Harteck, Heisenberg and the other scientists working on the project. The report concluded that pure uranium-235 - which forms just 0.7% of natural uranium, the rest being non-fissionable uranium-238 - would be a nuclear explosive a million times more powerful than conventional explosives. It also argued that a nuclear reactor, once operating, could be used to make plutonium, which would be an explosive of comparable force. The critical mass of such a weapon would be "around 10-100 kg", which was comparable to the Allies' estimate from 6 November 1941 of 2-100 kg that is recorded in the official history of the Manhattan Project - the so-called Smyth report.

Originally posted by TerraX
I saw a documentary once on the Discovery Channel where secret allied military units where on the hunt for German scientists in the final stages of the war. They even caught the head scientist and the reactor they were building and it turned out the scientists were on the wrong track constructing an a-bomb.

The first Wikipedia article you cited says that the original German uranium research group split into several different groups. I think that is part of the trouble involved in getting a truly comprehensive account of German atomic research. It looks like more of the pieces of a bigger jigsaw puzzle are coming to light.


[edit on 8-11-2008 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by ipsedixit

When you detonate a nuclear bomb, even just for testing, people are gonna notice. Even with the Manhattan Project blast people noticed and a cover story was put in place. If my memory serves me right they said an ammo dump exploded. And don't forget the Trinity site was in a secluded area in New Mexico.
en.wikipedia.org...
Europe, generally, tends to be a bit more crowded. If a nuclear device was detonated during the battle of Kursk many people would have noticed. I haven't watched the YouTube links yet so I'll comment on that later.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Excellent videos and posts, starred. I missed that show on the History Channel, and will look for the repeats. The evidence is there that the Germans had an atomic bomb, and it is very possible the bombs the US used were German made.

Originally posted by TerraX
Europe, generally, tends to be a bit more crowded. If a nuclear device was detonated during the battle of Kursk many people would have noticed. I haven't watched the YouTube links yet so I'll comment on that later.

I know you haven't seen the videos yet, but I couldn't help thinking that while Europe is more crowded than the desert in New Mexico, there also was a heck of a lot exploding at the time as well in Europe and just about everybody was pretty battle fatigued.

The pilot referred to in one of my earlier posts mentioned something about being surprised that "they" would test something like that so close to inhabited areas, but as history has shown there was very little, if anything, that "they" wouldn't do.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
The pilot referred to in one of my earlier posts mentioned something about being surprised that "they" would test something like that so close to inhabited areas, but as history has shown there was very little, if anything, that "they" wouldn't do.

I think people here should take a good look about the Trinity site information and what an actual atomic explosion does;
en.wikipedia.org...

the device exploded with an energy equivalent to around 20 kilotons of TNT (90 TJ). It left a crater of radioactive glass in the desert 10 feet (3 meters) deep and 1,100 ft (330 meters) wide.... The shock wave was felt over 100 miles (160 km) away, and the mushroom cloud reached 7.5 miles (12 km) in height.

I've watched those YouTube links and some findings are intriquing, but I haven't seen evidence of a working atomic bomb. Those alleged test sites aren't that impressive, and the guy holding up a small rock with a brownish stain on it bares no resemblance to actual glassed material caused by a nuclear detonation;
en.wikipedia.org...
In another location the camera pans to the left and zooms in on a house owned by an eyewitness. The thing is, the house is relatively close by. It wouldn't be there anymore if an actual bomb had gone off.

What I do find intriquing is the detection of radioactive elements, but my question would be; in what amounts are they detected? This would be the best evidence to present the case for a German a-bomb. I'm not rulling out that the Germans experimented on some locations using conventional explosives in order to reach critical mass. Again, the remaining radioactive elements is the best evidence. Why don't those guys publish their findings and let it be researched by independant parties? There's no shame on this matter after all these years and many countries have the atomic knowledge by now.

No, I'm afraid I still have to disagree with the notion that Nazi Germany had a working a-bomb like some posters here suggest. Besides, don't you think Hitler would have used such a device on the advancing Russians or Allies?

Originally posted by kidflash2008
The evidence is there that the Germans had an atomic bomb, and it is very possible the bombs the US used were German made.

reply to post by TerraX

I agree with you that the jury is probably still out on this one, although there are certainly indications worth following up that something out of the ordinary was happening. Maybe the design they were using didn't achieve a big enough reaction to create the dramatic sort of effects seen in the various US detonations of nuclear bombs.

I hope more comes out about this. I think the more we know about Nazi Germany the better. The more detailed the portrait becomes, the more we can recognize ourselves in it, and take warning. Jim's book is great for bringing that point home.

WHO"S DANE KUTA of cardiff by the SEA a NAZI?

Dane kuta and the professor are nazis of the super fourth reich! They both lied they are not nazis! Before congress I mean that is perjury it is a felony.

reply to post by TerraX


Trinity was a plutonium bomb, very different from the u-235 bombs dropped on Japan just a month later......
there was great concern that the US couldn't produce enough enriched uranium for 1 much less 2 atomic bombs....
a mysterious German sub with gold-lined containers AND uranium-bomb fuses showed up in Maine before the US attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki......

its not really fun when people debate posts about a book without having read that book....

for example: who's to say vacuum tubes were the only tech in existence during the 1940's? obviously Tesla was way ahead, years before. and there are thousands and thousands of classified documents and patents that we'll never get to see from Germany during that time period. this book makes one think... I was worried the Nazis had invented solar panels too- the one modern invention that keeps me alive- so had to google it.