Weird Shadows on Mars!!! What Are They??

reply to post by NephraTari




-Euclid

P.S. Nice post Zorgon!

[edit on 4-9-2008 by euclid]

[edit on 4-9-2008 by euclid]

One of the most genuinely fascinating posts I've seen recently: thanks, Zorgon.

The Nasa page here is quite interesting.

Notice the "artist's impression" is very dark, the colour of some of the images posted by Zorgon. The gif animation shows a much paler dust devil snaking across the terrain.

The MGS page here describes 8km high dust towers... just beyond comprehension for my feeble mind...

Isn't it interesting also how so many people see dark substances and immediately jump to crude oil... reflects both a desperation for the stuff here on Earth... as if there aren't any other dark substances to be found in the solar system....

Thanks again, Zorgon, thought-provoking, well researched and well presented, as usual.

LW

Originally posted by LoneWeasel

Isn't it interesting also how so many people see dark substances and immediately jump to crude oil... reflects both a desperation for the stuff here on Earth... as if there aren't any other dark substances to be found in the solar system....

LW

Seems that some scientists also "jump to the conclusion" that the dark streaks on Mars can be oil. Perhaps you missed my post where I quoted Susana Direito from the Portuguese Astrobiology Working Group. PAWG is currently studing the 'Mars Exobiological Potential' as part of the MAGIC project (Mars Atmospherical Geophysical and ExobIological Characterisation), financed by the FCT (Fundação para a Ciência e Tecnologia) and with the Recognised Cooperating Laboratory status for the Mars Express mission.

- Your research derives from a premise inverse to the one adopted on Earth...it deals with searching oil to find life and no to dizimate it...

- Yes, effectively. It is my oppinion that we must invest more and more on alternatives to the use of oil as fuel. The search for oil on Mars must be done, exclusively, on a astrobiological and scientific point of view.

- What might the consequences be, for a future exploration of Mars, if studies provide proofs of the existence of oil reservoirs?

- If such happens then the key word will be “caution”. As in other space missions “caution is fundamental, because there will always be a contamination problem. Every mission being planned will need to be very well thought.

- Any promising results so far? Are there specific locations as serious candidates?

- It is a very promising hypothesis because a deep study of the planet was undertaken.
The candidate locations are the areas where we can find dark streaks and dark features.
The choice of one of them as a target for a potential mission depends on the technical means available and the terrain caractheristiques.

spaceurope.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by ziggystar60
Seems that some scientists also "jump to the conclusion" that the dark streaks on Mars can be oil. Perhaps you missed my post where I quoted Susana Direito from the Portuguese Astrobiology Working Group.

No, Ziggy, I didn't miss your post. I just don't lend too much credence to Susana Direito's points, that's all. If I took my wage from something called the "Astrobiology Working Group", I'd be pretty keen to examine the possibility of there being oil on Mars, too.

For the record, I'm not suggesting it's impossible, I'm simply observing that:

a) the interest in finding oil reserves on other planets doesn't reflect our knowledge of the resources of those planets so much as our keen awareness of the lack of resources on our own and

b) focusing our search for oil on Mars on areas that look "darker" than others may not be completely unreasonable, but on the other hand it's hardly cutting-edge scientific reason at work, either.

But it's just my opinion, Zigster, I don't know any better than you do!

LW

Originally posted by mikesingh
Too much time on ATS, what??

There's a whole world outside to explore!!

Yes been thinking that myself lately... a LOT



To Ziggy Nice find (even if I did have a head's up ) Applause to you for shaking up ArMaP in his own backyard

Seems NASA agrees... they have been practicing drill at Haughton Crater in the Arctic "Mars on Earth" Project where they also have the Mars1 Humvee...

Mars Drill

A Mars prototype drill was evaluated at NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif., before shipment to Haughton Crater on Devon Island in Canada's Nunavut Territory north of Ontario and Quebec. The device will bore into permafrost and broken rock in the crater in the Canadian arctic from July 14 to July 29, 2006, with a final demonstration planned for July 27 from 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. CDT. NASA scientists say that this may be the first time automation will have completely controlled a drill rig. During the field exercise, the researchers' main objective is to evaluate the artificial intelligence software that will control the rig, not other aspects of Mars drilling such as sample analysis and robotics design.

www.nasa.gov...

MARS DEEP DRILLING REMAINS A HIGH PRIORITY
THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS CENTER FOR SPACE RESEARCH

In 1992, The University of Texas Center for Space Research (CSR) submitted a proposal to the NASA Scout Program to drill a “deep” well on Mars.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

DRILLING TO EXTRACT LIQUID WATER ON MARS:
FEASIBLE ANDWORTH THE INVESTMENT
MS 245-3, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

www.thelivingmoon.com...

Now get this...

Bush Says U.S. to Drill for Oil on Mars

Washington, DC | President Bush, speaking at a hastily-called press conference at the Roy Rogers Rotunda in the Gene Autrey Wing of the White House, announced a project to send a spacecraft to Mars to bring back oil for this planet.

The announcement came in apparent reaction to the wild speculation by oil companies and the media outlets they control that just mentioning the lifting of the Presidential timeout on offshore and ANWR drilling has reduced the price of oil on the open market by twelve bucks a barrel.

According to President Bush, the project is scheduled for completion in "November, maybe as late as December, 2112."

"This plan might be far off and flaky," continued the President, "but if these speculators reacted positively to news I lifted a Presidential ban on drilling that has no effect whatsoever on the opening of any future oil drilling in this country or anywhere else, they might react to anything... By the way, this is all off the record."

THIS was posted here at ATS in 2004
Oil on mars......Halliburton primed!www.abovetopsecret.com...

NASA Ames Center looks at problem of drilling on Mars
www.petroleumnews.com...

Cheney to bathe in Martian Oil

MARS - On a hot tip from Michael Jackson, Vice President Dick Cheney has become convinced that bathing in Martian Oil will restore his youth.

"The Iraqi oil I am currently bathing in is fine, but I think Martian oil could help soften my arteries," said Cheney at a private luncheon for the press.

When asked about the possibility of drilling for oil on Mars, Dr. Geoffrey Briggs, director, Center for Mars Exploration at the NASA Ames Center, told the Wired Press that "NASA is looking at ways to drill on Mars only to look for new forms of life," wink, wink.

When asked why he was winking, he replied, "I have a stye."

Briggs went on to say NASA has been working with Halliburton, Shell, Baker-Hughes and the Los Alamos National Laboratory to identify drilling technologies that might work on Mars.

Though the project is not set to start until 2007, Halliburton has already requested $537 million a week in meals for the ten astronaut crew.

thewiredpress.com...

WHAT THE HELL WILL THEY BE EATING??? CAVIAR?

Halliburton

You can bet it won't lower our gas prices...

Originally posted by LoneWeasel
The MGS page here describes 8km high dust towers... just beyond comprehension for my feeble mind...

Well try this for 'comprehension' IF they say the atmosphere is really as thin as they claim... where do these 8km high dust devils materialize from?



Funny that the Mars 1 Humvee looks so Earth bound

Shadows of Mars........Just thinking some have said maybe they are oil geysers... On the pro side of that. oil comes from organic matter- thus Mars would have to have had life! >>There is general agreement in mainstream science that petroleum originated when organic matter in ancient muds and clays accumulated in subsiding geological basins. This sediment was heated over a period of millions of years as geological processes brought the material deeper underground. The end product depends on just how deep the organic-rich sediments were carried. At 150 - 200 C, natural gas is the end produce. At 60 - 150 C, oils are produced, and leach out of the rocks to form pockets that get trapped between impermeable layers of shale.

The geologic period when petroleum deposits can form depends on a balance between sufficient sources of organic material ( trees, plants etc with waxy 'hydrocarbon coatings') and the occurrence of the proper geologic subsidence and trapping processes. Deposits found in Precambrian rocks are rare, as are deposits in the much more recent Pleistocene 'rocks'. However, tar deposits are found in the latter rocks such as the famous 'La Brea Tar Pits' in southern California. It takes several million years for the petroleum products such as oil to migrate out of their parent rocks into the appropriate 'reservoir' rocks where they get trapped and accumulated into sub-surface pools. Radioactive dating of the rocks in which oil deposits occur span the range from the Cambrian Era to the Cretaceous Era between 65 million and 500 million years ago.



Reason I think it isn't oil...Bush and Cheney would be on the next flight to stake out their claim to Martian wells..

Originally posted by BlackProjects
Reason I think it isn't oil...Bush and Cheney would be on the next flight to stake out their claim to Martian wells..

From the post above yours...

Bush Says U.S. to Drill for Oil on Mars

Originally posted by zorgon

Well try this for 'comprehension' IF they say the atmosphere is really as thin as they claim... where do these 8km high dust devils materialize from?

I agree that the phenomenon is fascinating - but I'm not sure that a thin atmosphere would have any impact on formation. As I understand it (and I happily admit I don't understand it very well!) a dust devil is created by four things: flat terrain, clear skies, a discrepancy between surface and atnospheric temperature, and light wind. Why does this not suit what we "know" (note speech marks) of the Martian thin atmosphere? Doesn't it support it?

As for the wider issue surrounding Bush's intention to mine mars for oil - knowing winks are convincing enough arguments that they know something we don't. But I'd need a bit more, personally, to convince me that they're not simply blowing a fortune of taxpayers' money on a wild goose chase - something they have an excellent track record for. My problem here is that, even from the scientists, I don't see much science.

But all that said, I accept the points you and Ziggy make about the level of interest from governments apparently across the globe. Definitely a space to be watched, I think...

LW

The scientists said geysers erupted when sunlight warming the ice turned frozen carbon dioxide underground into high-pressure gas.


My only question is, "If there is definately carbon dioxide on mars, (frozen or not) why can't there be plant life?"

Originally posted by president
My only question is, "If there is definately carbon dioxide on mars, (frozen or not) why can't there be plant life?"

Lichens would thrive... and require only trace water

reply to post by zorgon


Thanks for the info.
I looked up those lichen and they sound like they would indeed thrive in such an environment.
but I could not determine weather or not they produced oxygen. (Photosynthesis I think it's called right.)

I wonder why Nasa didn't send a bucket of those things over with one of their little robots.

As a matter of fact, I don't think they did any phisical experiments to see if life could be sustained over there, like using a lighter or seeing what would happen to a bowl of water

Of course I understand they did not need to spend that kind of money on extra functions for their robot when they could read computer specs. but I would like to see something phisical.

Thanks again, and good thread.

Originally posted by president
I looked up those lichen and they sound like they would indeed thrive in such an environment.

Lichens consist of two different organisms, a 'mycobiont' (a fungus) and a 'phycobiont' (either an alga, which is a simple plant, or a cyanobacterium, a bacteria that can photosynthesise), which live together in a symbiotic association.

Algae produce 80% of the oxygen on Earth

It is estimated that between 70% and 80% of the oxygen in the atmosphere is produced by marine plants . Nearly all marine plants are single celled, photosynthetic algae. Yup, that's right, good ol' scum on the pond…green gak…..slip slimein' away. Even marine seaweed is many times colonial algae. They are a bunch of single cells trying to look like a big plant (see seaweed photo), but they are really individuals.

We need marine algae a whole lot more than they need us. Think about it….70% to 80% of all the oxygen we breathe comes from algae! Without them we would really be sucking wind, but not for long! At this point you may be saying, "Yo! What about the trees and other land plants?" Well, trees and other land plants are very important, no doubt about it. But for pure survival, we couldn't make it without algae.

www.ecology.com...

Cyanobacteria: a group of bacteria that are able to photosynthesise and contain the pigment chlorophyll. They used to be known as 'blue-green algae'. They are thought to have been the first organisms to produce oxygen; fossil cyanobacteria have been found in 3000 million year old rocks. As they are responsible for the oxygen in the atmosphere they have played an essential role in influencing the course of evolution on this planet.

www.arkive.org...


So if Terraforming Mars is on the list... just drop Lichen spores all over the rocks... those things can take extremes of temperatures and survive dormant thousands of years without water... but a mere trace will revive them

As they give off oxygen, like they did on Earth at the beginning, the same will happen on Mars... and as oxygen combines with hydrogen, it too shall rain on Mars

Not shadows, singular fans that show a robust surface and suggesting a not so much dead planet.