The Official Story of Christianity

I've been thinking about this off and on recently and to me the numbers just don't add up. So here's the story.

God is in heaven and isn't too please about the way the world is.

He sends his son to be tortured, humiliated and murdered (after living a kind and peaceful life) by the romans in order to save everyone from an eternity of suffering and damnation.

The son rises from the dead in a few days.

Then he takes off but promises to return.


Ok so, first of all, if I were god i could think of lots of better ways to remove the sins of the world then to send my son out and be murdered. They could've set up a three month course where you get a "certificate of salvation" after completion.

Why allow billions of people that will be born in the future live and then die and go to some kind of hell? Why not just end the world right there and count up the winners and losers. What's the point of leaving right after you return from the dead only to promise to return at an undisclosed time in the future?

Anyway, it's hard to put it all into words but that's the just of it.

Meh I used to believe it... but when you look at real history, and not the bible things come into focus. It's just a tool for control and manipulation, another form of mindless brainwashing like T.V. Keep people busy with false hopes and they won't look behind the curtain for the real truth and problems, the cost of ignorance is too great at this point in history. People need to get off their religious rockers and wake up to more important issues

reply to post by Mozzy

God is in heaven and isn't too please about the way the world is.

God was watching things on earth and saw that Pax Romana had come to a point of stopping a lot of the strife, and could allow the spread of this new religion.

He sends his son to be tortured, humiliated and murdered (after living a kind and peaceful life) by the romans in order to save everyone from an eternity of suffering and damnation.

God causes both John the Baptist and Jesus to be born in miraculous ways to be ready at the right time to bring about this new religion.
Jesus was killed in a brutal manner by the Romans to be accursed by God. The sins of the world were placed on him and God judged him and he died. From that time, the clock is ticking on us as that sacrifice protects the whole world from being destroyed.

They could've set up a three month course where you get a "certificate of salvation" after completion.

The Israelites had forty years in the desert to be taught by God, before they were ready to enter the Promised Land.

Why allow billions of people that will be born in the future live and then die and go to some kind of hell?

God wants as many people as possible to enter his kingdom. The world will end when it looks like the bad people are going to annihilate the good people. There is no hell of eternal suffering. That is a medieval invention to keep up levels of church going.

What's the point of leaving right after you return from the dead only to promise to return at an undisclosed time in the future?

Jesus did on earth, what only he could do. His disciples were given the Holy Spirit to do what anyone else could do. He went to Heaven to do what only he could do, there.

Jesus wasn't "killed" or "murdered", he freely gave Himself up at the appointed time for Him to do so.

To state otherwise is to imply He didn't have the power to stop it, that men were more powerful than He is.

Mozzy,
I grew in 'believing in' the Bible, but like you I actually stopped and thought about it one day and it didn't make a lot of sense to me either. More specifically the literal reading didn't make sense, however I now feel that the Bible is ultimately meant to be taken symbolically and so I don't have the same qualms with it that I once did.
Now I know there are people who take the Bible literally as well as those who totally discount it. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and I respect both viewpoints. I just think its strange that discussion of the Bible almost always (at least in my experience) focuses on these two viewpoints while very little consideration is given to symbolic interpretation.

I understand the Bible. If there are parts that on the surface seem odd, there are NUMEROUS resources available to help.

Originally posted by Mozzy
I've been thinking about this off and on recently and to me the numbers just don't add up. So here's the story.

Is it possible that you are subtracting thinking you are adding?

Originally posted by Mozzy
God is in heaven and isn't too please about the way the world is.

This kinda sets the wrong stage because of the fixed humanitarian view that 'God' is a 'thing' that is located far, far away. In a land called heaven. He then would be on the carnal time line and have the human like weakness, requiring him to look down and assess the problems of the world and send a fixer.

The creator is eternal. The I AM. HE IS and in him everything else exists.

Originally posted by Mozzy
He sends his son to be tortured, humiliated and murdered (after living a kind and peaceful life) by the romans in order to save everyone from an eternity of suffering and damnation.

The son rises from the dead in a few days.

Yes, to give those who receive him the authority to become his sons. Yet this lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. 2000 years ago is a bit new.

Originally posted by Mozzy
Then he takes off but promises to return.

He's not far from any one of us. Yet it seems like most would rather not receive that.

Originally posted by Mozzy
Ok so, first of all, if I were god i could think of lots of better ways to remove the sins of the world then to send my son out and be murdered.

If you were the creator wouldn't you be sure that the way in which you design for the salvation plan for man, would be such a way that, the men who are saved by it have absolutely no way to take credit for it? So that only you would get the credit. (That no flesh will glory in his sight, as it's written.)

If you were the creator, you would be seated in eternity. You wouldn't just know the future but you would actually sit in it while also sitting in the beginning and also the end.

Building on that, whatever plan you designed you would carry this out in eternity so that nothing carnal could screw it up. So this plan would be completed and finished before reality as man knows it exists.

So the only thing required in this realm would be that this plan which is already carried out, to be fulfilled.

What better plan is there then to take on the form the corrupt man, yet do nothing corrupt? To word it another way, be in the likeness of sinful flesh (fallen man) yet not sin.

Not only this but reveal a standard of perfection (the glory of GOD) that no man can match. Even down to the point of laying down your own life for all men.

This design makes it so that man can only be saved by the creator, and his work alone, so that there is no way man can do anything and take credit for it.

It makes Jesus the only way.

Originally posted by Mozzy
Why allow billions of people that will be born in the future live and then die and go to some kind of hell? Why not just end the world right there and count up the winners and losers.

If there were winners and losers the winners could glory in themselves. However if there is only one winner, the only one the losers can rejoice in is him.

Originally posted by Mozzy
What's the point of leaving right after you return from the dead only to promise to return at an undisclosed time in the future?

He hasn't gone anywhere. He's as close to you as he is everyone.

Originally posted by Mozzy
Ok so, first of all, if I were god i could think of lots of better ways to remove the sins of the world then to send my son out and be murdered. They could've set up a three month course where you get a "certificate of salvation" after completion.

Nice post Mozzy!

When you closely examine and evaluate the story of the Christian Bible it becomes all too clear that it’s nothing but utter nonsense.

Better yet, God could have just removed our “sin” without doing anything other than saying “it is so!”. There was no need to murder him self for us.

Logic and reason is the enemy of religion.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Mozzy


Perhaps if you read into the story a little more you will realize that Jesus is enticing you to be his brother and finish the story. Remember the part about if a man dies, his brother must fulfill the duty of law by marrying his wife? That's a hint for you.

" logic and reason are the enemy of religion "

Yea but unsincerity is the enemy of truth. 1,000s of saints seen God face to face, worked miracles as did Christ himself. It's easy as hell to say it's (utter nonsense), that doesn't make it true though, your opinion.


Now to Jomie KY.

you see this is the type of athiest I am talking about, they give nothing a chance, not miracles, not openess, nothing. They have made their minds up, yet they don't know for sure if God is false, yet to them it's 100% garunteed.


" used for control and manipulation "

that's baloney. God teaches to love your enemies and your God. You could make the argument that anything the government gives out like rules is control and minipulation. because God has some commands for a peacful world and for our own good, just like a dad gives us rules when we are a kid, then it's minipulation?

What if God actually existed and is showing himself to mandkind? Some of you guys have no, absolutely no openmindedness.


" keep people busy with false hopes "

Yea to you. Your damn opinion isn't truth, it's opinion. many saints worked countless miracles and seen angels as I have myself seen countless miracles in my families life. Like the girl in my signature as well.


the bottom line is to the original poster, please keep an open mind, im begging you, look alot of athiest don't, so doing that you will have already reached sincerity and God will do the rest.


God has to pay sin with an innocent being to suffer. He takes to punishment out by chastisement. When I was younger my dad beat the hell out of us. What pain does to the body is it humbles you out when it's over, it makes you learn lessons, and God uses pain and affliction as a means to cancel out sins. It's like if my brother stole my dads car and would get his ass wooped, instead I take that suffering onto my own body and cancel it out for him..

yet what God does is take our sins on his body and in return he supplies us with graces which are lights to the mind and love that is infused into the soul/

can you even grasp what I'm saying? God don't give mandkind timeout. Timeout aint working, neither is removing sins any other way then through suffering.

But you will understand this at the end and God will show you what i just explained if you cannot understand it here.

peace and God bless you.




[edit on 5-9-2008 by JesusisTruth]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
" logic and reason are the enemy of religion "

Yea but unsincerity is the enemy of truth. 1,000s of saints seen God face to face, worked miracles as did Christ himself. It's easy as hell to say it's (utter nonsense), that doesn't make it true though, your opinion.

Yep, I agree with you. Consequently it is insincere to claim something as fact when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up with.

When are you going to stop being insincere?

reply to post by Mozzy


Yeah, never quite understood how or why Jesus died on the cross for my sins?
I wasn't even born and I am responsible for my actions.

no no no. nice try at having wit bro.

listen. you have no facts, we have no facts. But what we do have is miracles. Like I said, God worked miracles, christ did, countless saints did in the view of family and friends, I have myself.

Not that i need those things to believe, but they help because nature is enough for me to believe and the way our bdoies work and creation.

it's called faith, but since I have faith I have seen things that are miracles as did the saints.

Now to you to say or any athiest to just shrug it off is unsincere.

you guys can believe what you want just keep an open mind.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Now to you to say or any athiest to just shrug it off is unsincere.

Why?

You readily portray your self as a mentally disturbed person living in fantasy land. Give me a good reason why I should give you even an ounce of credibility?

" a mentally disturbed person "

whatever. I don't care what you think. What makes you so sane?

I am not asking you to give me an ounce of credibility, i am asking you to keep an open mind because many of my brothers and sisters and God himself worked miracles.


" fantasy land "

yea to you, we'll see how much fantasy it is soon bro.


God bless you.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

whatever. I don't care what you think. What makes you so sane?

Well, for a starter I don’t claim something to be true without also presenting proper evidence. If there is something I believe is true, but due to absence of proper research and evidence, I cannot back-up such claims, I will keep it to my self until sufficient evidence to back up my assertions become available. Perhaps you should keep your fairy tale nonsense to your self instead of proclaiming you know the truth and have all the answers?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
I am not asking you to give me an ounce of credibility, i am asking you to keep an open mind because many of my brothers and sisters and God himself worked miracles.

I am keeping an open mind. Should you decide to provide solid evidence for your claims I’m all open ears. However, if you think that keeping an open mind means to automatically accept what you say at face value, you are gravely mistaken.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
yea to you, we'll see how much fantasy it is soon bro.

Is that a threat?

How about you just show me it isn’t fantasy right now instead of soon?

you little knucklehead. listen. I am claiming it to be true from what ive seen. the miracles, Christs miracles, the saints, the girl in my signature. Eucharistic miracles which scientists have tested, the incorrupt bodies.

The things I seen in my life I couldn't deny if I wanted to. usually miracles would be evidence, but you see some of you people want God to sit on your damn lap. God wants faith out of us, and if you show him some you will see the things nthey did.


Now as for


" fariy tale nonsense "

Like I said, to you it is, not to me. it's damn real to me. I can say your belief in nothing is nonsense and use that same confidence as you did yet it doesn't make it true.


and I don't have all the answers. god has gievn me some wisdom over the years and I understand alot of things and alot of spiritual things and can explain stuff kind of well. but it's all from gods grace.

I don't know anything without God. i'm an idiot.


" is that a threat "

No. You are important to me as a human being, let's get that strait, I wouldn't want to see a hair hramed on your head.

But what I'm saying is that time flies, and death comes soon, and when you are face to face with the one 100s of saints talked to face to face on earth remember what i said.

In the menatime you can think I'm crazy all day long.


man when Ashley D said coming to BTS was like a job instead of it being fun she wasn't lying. all this arguing.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by JesusisTruth]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
you little knucklehead. listen. I am claiming it to be true from what ive seen. the miracles, Christs miracles, the saints, the girl in my signature. Eucharistic miracles which scientists have tested, the incorrupt bodies.

Hah! Show me these tests scientists have conducted and preferably one that has been peer-reviewed. It is my opinion that you are lying and I will keep to this belief until you can demonstrate otherwise.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
The things I seen in my life I couldn't deny if I wanted to. usually miracles would be evidence, but you see some of you people want God to sit on your damn lap. God wants faith out of us, and if you show him some you will see the things nthey did.

So what made you so special that you were granted the sight to see these things yet I have seen no such thing?

I don’t do faith, I don’t believe in anything without evidence. God should already know this if he created me.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Like I said, to you it is, not to me. it's damn real to me. I can say your belief in nothing is nonsense and use that same confidence as you did yet it doesn't make it true.

Maybe it is real to you and maybe you’re just a compulsive liar.

If it truly seem real to you then tell me this; What makes you different from those who suffer from psychological delusions? There are people who think all kinds of weird and clearly untrue stuff. Why are you different in your beliefs?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
and I don't have all the answers. god has gievn me some wisdom over the years and I understand alot of things and alot of spiritual things and can explain stuff kind of well. but it's all from gods grace.

I don't know anything without God. i'm an idiot.

Why do you think you’re an idiot without God?

I’m not an idiot without God, why can’t you be more like me?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
No. You are important to me as a human being, let's get that strait, I wouldn't want to see a hair hramed on your head.

Yet you throw insults at me by calling me knucklehead!

Oh the irony. Isn’t that like a sin?

By the way, I’m not offended, you may call me knucklehead in every response you have from here on out. I don’t mind.

Perhaps you should keep your fairy tale nonsense to your self instead of proclaiming you know the truth and have all the answers?

Spoken as IF the theory of evolution isn't the biggest 'fairy tale' ever dropped upon the human race.