True origins of the Illuminati.....

Arrrgh!!! I've been showing these evidences here on ATS numerous times and there's still people that keep their eyes SHUT. See with your eyes and hear with your ears... not the opposite!

1- The Alumbrados in Spain have existed since the 16th century. "Alumbrados" litterally means "Enlightened ones" in english and "Illuminati" in latin. They were mystic, elitist clerics and intellectuals which believed that they were closer to God than the rest of the populace. There were the target of the Great Inguisition of 1623. Here's a few reliable links on them:

www.newadvent.org... (from the Catholic Encyclopedia)

www.britannica.com... (from Encyclopedia Britannica) The whole chapter on the Alumbrados is located in Encyclopedia Brittanica, Vol. 14, 1910, pg. 320

And here's a text version of 'Heresy and Mysticism in Sixteenth-Century Spain: The Alumbrados', written by Smith/Mc Kim: www.infomotions.com...


2- The "Illuminés" is a bunch of groups of intellectuals, philosophers and politicians which existed since the beginning of the 17th century in France. They have been forming philosophical circles in the elite, and these were revolutionary philosophical circles, aiming to get rid of the Church and the monarchies in Europe and to install a new order based on their fundamental political and moral principles (which are mostly found in the U.S. Declaration of Independance and the Bill of Rights).

Voltaire, Diderot, d'Alembert, Martines de Pasqually, Saint-Martin, Count Mirabeau were all known to be illustrous members of these circles, before and during the French Revolution. This is where the term "Lumières" comes from, as it is an understated reference to their association with these groups.

From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org...

3- A group called the "Illuminés d'Avignon" was also formed in the second half of the 19th century in France (in Avignon, of course). A book was written on them and their founder, is it: "Les Illuminés d'Avignon, étude sur Dom Pernety et son Groupe" from Joanny Bricaud. Dom Pernetty created the Illuminés d'Avignon in 1786, later know under the name of the "Académie des vrais maçons" (Academy of the True Masons). He also created the first Swedenborg Rite lodge around the same years in Avignon.
freemasonry.bcy.ca...

Musician and intellectual P.J. Frick also joined the group www.ritmanlibrary.nl... as he was sharing the same beliefs of Pernety and Swedenborg that an illustrous branch of people in society were able to enter in close contact with God and the angels (just as the Alumbrados), had access to a true knowledge of God and humans, and that they had to build the New Jerusalem for the Second Coming.

4- Ooh! And look what I have found by accident... evidence on the alledged existence of another Illuminati group in Britain, at the beginning of the 20th century! And this is taken from an official Freemason website, in a text in the Swedenborg lodge:

For this and for other reasons he was becoming disenchanted with the Rite; it was, he told Reuss, 'never popular here, & I recommended the Soc. Ros. instead of it.' It would seem that the Swedenborgian Rite was part of a package deal with Reuss: in exchange for the Rite, and a German College of the SRIA, Westcott received membership of the Order of Illuminati and the right to propagate it in England.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...


Ahhh, the great treasures of knowledge that we can find on the Internet when we make the effort of researching and reading!

Their relation to the Illuminati of Bavaria as well as their detailed agenda is still vague (because they were secret societies, after all!), but yes, there were other Illuminati lodges or groups before the Bavarian ones, and perhaps during their existence, since no proofs points out to if and how they were dismantled in France or other European countries.

You're right, Nygdan, I have no evidence of their existence... I only have wordly recognized PROOFS of their existence!

My apologies Echtelion, but this is the first time I have seen a post from you.
I have been inactive at best as of recent and even when I am here I lurk more than post. However I find your post very well structured and full of information and will research the links thoroughly.
Yet.. I am still looking for more proof as to the true age and origin of the illuminati..

Onward.

I am one of what ATS members would consider to be an Illuminon. I belong to one of many many shards. You see we really have not "re-united" since the Bavarian siege. This is mostly due in part to differences of opinion, infighting, and multiple dichotomies at play. As for the origins the history about Bavaria is quite accurate, and I personally am not so well versed in it, i am more concerned with present times, and most considerably with the future. What i do know for sure is that after the Bavarian siege the few founders who still remained went underground and traveled vast distances to keep our teachings and duties alive. Our primary dichotomy is to maintain global stability, while most of us utilize means of political swaying and commerce. Other shards have resorted to less than savory means. Luckily most of these went extinct by the early 1930's. Today the only ailments we truly have are those who have gleaned pieces of our true existence and utilized them as proof to the rest, in order to bastardize and mutilate the face and cause of the Illuminati. As previously stated we are philosophical and intellectual individuals, whose only concern is the maintenance of their duties. Our duties and initial purpose lye in the maintenance of society, specifically to ensure it does not severely deviate form its "natural" pathway. It is good to see fewer and fewer threads on the Illuminati, for such a time we had been marred by so many for so little a reason, we severed all outside attempts at communication. Now that the "rush" has slowed a handful whom wish to spread the generalities of our cause, out of personal anguish of its defacement have risen to the challenge of informing people of our true form and function. We simply ask that you do not judge when you do not hold all the facts, and that you continue your valiant civic duties into researching these "fringe" topics to spread the light of knowledge, upon every and all things.

reply to post by Maban


Thank you for sharing your take on things as they stand now. Being as you say an Illuminon, could you tell us if indeed the roots of the Illuminati as a whole predate the Bavarian shard that was seized?

[edit on 29-2-2008 by NephraTari]

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

(Illuminati goal 1. Remove all religion)

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

(Illuminati Goal 2. Remove Political boundaries/sovereign states )

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

(There is a group!)

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

(Sorta like a, oh, I don't know, One World Order?)

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

So John Lennon was one of the Master Illuminists, who woulda thunk.

The Federation envisioned by Gene Roddenberry seems to be a model of the Post sovereign state society as well, a multinational/multi species coalition with no religious or political divisions.

What are the options to One World Order? No World order?

No World Order is correct. And I think in truth the goal of those TRULY illuminated. The need for government is an illusion.

Nice post.

Lenon had the right idea.. which is why he was shot for trying to share it.

*shakes head*

This is just a THEORY but i suspect when governments start losing control they hoard all their information and technology in underground bunkers and trigger events that wipe out most of the populations and wait patiently for people to revert back to a more primitive state then come above ground and use their technology to make the primitive peoples believe they are gods in order to take back command of the planet. organizations like the Illuminati could be a long term plan of control through advanced technology hoarded over many such "Armageddons"

reply to post by NephraTari


I firstly apologize for the double post, i am having troubles editing.

Technically i am of a Bavarian Shard, a shard typically refers to a fractured piece of the original Bavarian Illuminati. As for the "predation" of the Bavarian Shard, well that is difficult. Pieces of information like this are, "sensitive." We have no compunctions about people knowing of our existence (for better or worse), our intentions, and motives. However the true "origins" of The Illuminati as a whole, are guarded. What i can say for sure is that the "true origins" of the Illuminati do predate the formal formation of the Bavarian Illuminati, as far as i am aware, between 10 to 20 years before the "official" Bavarian Illuminati. This "predation" is a consequence of secrecy, security, and the actual formation of what would later become known as the Bavarian Illuminati. I am afraid i cannot go into further detail regarding what specifically triggered, or what brought upon the dichotomy and ideology of the Illuminati. However, i am more than pleased to provide you with information such as our purpose, plans, and dichotomy. As for the true "origins" of the Illuminati, i can only truly truthfully say it is the most highly guarded secret, in most all likelihood, in all of human history. For those who would undoubtedly see this a devious and dark fact. I can only assure you it is quite the opposite, and that its unveiling would create irreversible repercussions on a global scale. Also in all likelihood either crippling or destroying organizations, governments, and even faiths. The burdens we care are critical secrets, secrets that in many of times stitch global civility and security together. Upon their unraveling by unwitting and curious individuals, it would create effects that could only be described as cataclysmic. I am sure many more questions will arise form this statement. However, i can only truly say that these secrets are kept secret for the best of reasons and intentions, in many cases the preservations of these secrets are why we have survived for so long, and why the worlds structure has not deviated to greatly. I hope this settles a few minds, and puts some of you at ease.

reply to post by HuntaXX


I GUARANTEE YOU, with the blood of my very own life, the Illuminati is not one of these groups, of that which you speak. The Illuminati is in fact the exact opposite, the shards are aimed at keeping the world stable, unified, and hopefully assist in joining together humanity under one flag, a world united in peace and illumination. I must stress though it is NOT in our aims to unite the world, under any way shape or form only our aim, we are not capable of doing so, but we know of those whom can, it is upon their word we wait; wait for the illumination of humanity, and its grace.

However, i have no doubt that other governments thought the world, including that of the United States, are quite determined to wreak such havoc you speak of. In fact it is in most likelihood why the Illuminati where both exiled and have been victimized with "guilt by association," with many insidious groups, because powerful men and women know of our existence, know of our goals, and strain to stop our cause, before it is irreversible. But to that threat, we hold no sway. We will stand for illumination of all, and fight any whom threaten humanity's existence, for they have no right to do so.

Originally posted by Maban
reply to post by HuntaXX

 

I GUARANTEE YOU, with the blood of my very own life, the Illuminati is not one of these groups, of that which you speak. The Illuminati is in fact the exact opposite, the shards are aimed at keeping the world stable, unified, and hopefully assist in joining together humanity under one flag, a world united in peace and illumination. I must stress though it is NOT in our aims to unite the world, under any way shape or form only our aim, we are not capable of doing so, but we know of those whom can, it is upon their word we wait; wait for the illumination of humanity, and its grace.

However, i have no doubt that other governments thought the world, including that of the United States, are quite determined to wreak such havoc you speak of. In fact it is in most likelihood why the Illuminati where both exiled and have been victimized with "guilt by association," with many insidious groups, because powerful men and women know of our existence, know of our goals, and strain to stop our cause, before it is irreversible. But to that threat, we hold no sway. We will stand for illumination of all, and fight any whom threaten humanity's existence, for they have no right to do so.

Surely the prophecy is being fulfilled right now. It says there will be a new age when there is no more hiding and the truths and secrets will be released to the world. This age has began. There is no point in dancing around anymore. The old ways are almost lost. The work will be done. Then why wait to speak? Just tell them and be done with it.

originally posted by HuntaXX
This is just a THEORY but i suspect when governments start losing control they hoard all their information and technology in underground bunkers and trigger events that wipe out most of the populations and wait patiently for people to revert back to a more primitive state then come above ground and use their technology to make the primitive peoples believe they are gods in order to take back command of the planet. organizations like the Illuminati could be a long term plan of control through advanced technology hoarded over many such "Armageddons"

originally posted by Maban
We have no compunctions about people knowing of our existence (for better or worse), our intentions, and motives. However the true "origins" of The Illuminati as a whole, are guarded.
[snip]
As for the true "origins" of the Illuminati, i can only truly truthfully say it is the most highly guarded secret, in most all likelihood, in all of human history. For those who would undoubtedly see this a devious and dark fact. I can only assure you it is quite the opposite,

The fact that many of the "Illuminati" throughout history have been extraterrestrial people?

originally posted by Maban
and that its unveiling would create irreversible repercussions on a global scale. Also in all likelihood either crippling or destroying organizations, governments, and even faiths. The burdens we care are critical secrets, secrets that in many of times stitch global civility and security together. Upon their unraveling by unwitting and curious individuals, it would create effects that could only be described as cataclysmic. I am sure many more questions will arise form this statement. However, i can only truly say that these secrets are kept secret for the best of reasons and intentions, in many cases the preservations of these secrets are why we have survived for so long, and why the worlds structure has not deviated to greatly. I hope this settles a few minds, and puts some of you at ease.

Yeah.... well not really, actually....

[edit on 7-3-2008 by MrdDstrbr]

The NWO is not new like people think. It is perhaps one of the oldest recorded goals in humanity. The problem is it isn't being instituted properly. Some are abusing it to seek material gain, that is not theirs. Possibly our Bavarian friend will elaborate a bit?

Originally posted by Webmusher
What are the options to One World Order? No World order?

Anarchy (aka freedom).

reply to post by Illahee


Even among our shards, we do not know the actual time line, but we know what to look for, and upon specific events the true nature of our origins will be made clear. As for why we should not "simply unveil or 'secrets."' Well, to simply state that is neither wise nor our decision, many do not understand that even the Illuminati as a shard, and as a whole answer to another power. (And for those whom feel a spiritual context coming on, i can reassure you it appears as such and certainly coincides with certain undeniable synchronicities, however it is not as such.) We are simply the custodians of a unveiling, custodians purposed with the maintenance of this world until it is ready for this unveiling. When this will occur? We do not know, nor do we claim to know, we simply wait, wait until that which we where taught so diligently, comes to be. Meanwhile, we diligently watch, wait, and work to ensure maximum stability in our world, although sometimes even orginization such as ourselves are unable to halt unstoppable movements. You must come to understand that we operate through what can only be best described as proxies, means of impacting influence towards something, without actually being apart of that movement. Many within our orginization have often taken great frustration with our "hands-off" approach, and have pleaded to many major shards for direct action. Luckily this has been curtailed with the council of wise Illuminons. I understand the reluctance to either believe, or even listen. I understand if i where in your position, i would have left this discussion long ago. From an outside perspective this is most likely viewed as non-sense. In which case listen, or take your leave, it is your decision. I cannot promise that answers will come in our lifetime, or in any form of entirety, however i can promise that when humanity is ready, they will come, and upon their unveiling it shall be like a waterfall upon a rock, and hopefully move that rock to an unenvisioned future of illumination, and grace.

reply to post by MrdDstrbr


I can assure i know my parents and myself, we are no more extraterrestrials than that of my fellow Illuminons. I am sorry to be so cryptic, it is unfortunate that the greatest focus of this discussion has fallen upon our origins, than that of humanity's future. But please, by all means, ask more questions. I am attempting to get fellow Illuminons form my shard to provide a broader horizon of representative personalities. Rather than just one voice, one point of view of the "true nature" of the Illuminati. (If i can use that term "true" without insult, because even among the truth, there are multiple points of view.)

[edit on 11-3-2008 by Maban]

reply to post by Illahee


Firstly i am not of Bavaria, but a member of a shard, which is of a direct descent of the original Bavarian Illuminati.

Secondly, the NWO is not, never was, and never will be a "creation" of the Illuminati. We work to maintain the world as it is, with little deviation, if any deviation in a pro humanity movement. As far as we are able to discern the NWO is a product of the Builderburg group, among other proponents, of as you said; "material wealth," and power. We are ourselves still attempting to identify the true nature of this "movement," however with all movements as such they are ever changing, and ever evolving. All i can state for certain is we observe it as a threat to the continued continuity of humanity's future. Whatever it may appear to be, knowing those whom are behind the group we do not trust their fleeting (at best) morals and ethics. For the time being we are observing and preparing to act if necessary, and pressuring political and social movements to both detract, stall, and block this movement. We do not share their luxury of global addresses, nor large armies to protect one's people (if one can call it protection; more so these days protection form one's self). We must utilize means of pressure, pressure to bend the ears and views of powerful and influential individuals to ensure the maintained global continuity that we where entrusted with so long ago.

If anything you may view us as the arbiters of power, ensuring no one group gains more power than another, ensuring no one group could take control entirely. If anything ensuring that infighting among groups is perpetuated until the time is right; until humanity is ready for the unveiling, and ready to take the steam out into the blinding light of realization, revelation, and truth.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by Maban]

reply to post by Maban

... which is of a direct descent of the original Bavarian Illuminati.

Any proof?

It seems to me you guys just hi-jacked the term Illuminati without any proof of being a direct descendant. Do you have anything? By whose authority do you claim to be a descendant of the original Illuminati?

Conspiracy theorists also use the term "Illuminati" to describe the perpetrators of the New World Order. I haven't seen anything that links them to the original Illuminati either. (except John Robison's unreliable Proof of a Conspiracy)

As far as we are able to discern the NWO is a product of the Builderburg group, among other proponents, of as you said; "material wealth," and power.

The United Nation (a NWO movement) was founded in 1945, we had the League of Nation before that. H.G. Wells wrote The New World Order in 1940. The Bilderburg Group didn't meet until 1954.


[edit on 12/3/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23

Well, how are we "direct descendants?"
- this may take a while where looking at over 200 years of history.

Our shard is of direct descent of Adolph Knigge, he was one of the original 17, who helped found the original Bavarian Illuminati. However after a time he grew disenchanted with Wisehaupt (the founder) and later withdrew his participation. He came to recognize the the Bavarian Illuminati was overly hypocritical and saw this as a betrayal of his enlightened ideals, and thus left. This is where the torment of time takes its toll, he fathered at least two sons that became involved in his ideals. One was later killed; how is still unclear. However the other son Agoustous Knigge, later moved to Iceland (as far as we are able to discern, under an alias) and took to learning from all of his fathers works. Here he began the second movement of the Illuminati, reuniting sons of founding members of the original Illuminati, and other intellectually gifted individuals. However, major opposition was seen in this movement, many who where still akin to Weishaupt's views resisted this movement, causing alternative ideas to rise underground, into today's "Shards." Afterwards many internal conflicts arose from within these few shards, splintering them further into between 10, and 30 officially recognized shards. Over time some divided, merged, grew stronger, and others simply faded off.

After approximately 5 generations went by from the original founding of the Icelandic Shard there was another internal shattering, three main groups broke off from this shard. These shards then went three separate ways, one to Canada, another to Spain, and the third simply faded off. The Spanish shard remained for at least another three generations before it too, fell from all contact and all knowledge. Thus the Canadian Shard still remained, thereafter another 3 generations ensued without altercation.

However there after there came to be a great need to both branch out to gain strength, and funding to support our duties, therefore additional Shards where for the first time (to our knowledge) where intentionally created. Three shards then broke off to three separate locations within the Northern hemisphere of the world.

Today i am a member of one of the three products of the Canadian Shards, truly by almost an accident. My personal family history is not of the Illuminati bloodline, but a shorter and far younger one. My great grandfather was of Czechoslovakian birth, and lived their for his entire life, although they would not stay there forever, my grandfather and grandmother lived there through the Nazi Occupation, and the era of the Soviet one. Although during the Soviet Occupation he was able to use his wife's father's business to secure travel visa's to Austria, where they where able to make their way into England. From there they moved to Toronto and had my father. My grandfather came to start working as a n engineer and helped several major companies, after working closely with the CEO of one, we was brought into the idealism and later, the ranks of the Canadian Shard. After a time he worked with this business owner to procure a better job within another company that had heavy ties with one of the Canadian Shards. He and his family (along with my father) moved to the United States (west coast), and began his position at a somewhat young Aerospace Corporation. He became a well renown designer and engineer holding many major patents and major project lead positions. However his ties with the Canadian shards was loose, he often took a "back-seat" to most Shard affairs. My father followed in his father's footsteps and too became an Engineer, except this time in the telecommunications and defense industry, in time he too like his father before him told me of the "wonderful opportunity" the Canadian Shard gave our family so long ago.

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


As for the NWO, i am well aware that it's origins predate that of the Builderburg group. What i failed to clarify is that they are the "current" proponents of this "united world idealism." Whomever claims to hold the NWO idealism, whomever supports its progress, is viewed as a "threat" by the Illuminati. We view it as a betrayal of humanity, rather than a true "unification" of it.

I simply stated this because the NWO is fraudulently associated with the Illuminati, i can guarantee you all recognized shards (7 major Shards) DO NOT hold to this concept. We are merely stewards, not masters, not as Wisehaupt may have had it. However, it is more truer to the idealism than he would have most probably made it.

We may not be the "true to form" Illuminati as many "wish" to see, but yet again, how could any orginization that has been underground for over 200 years not change atal? But, never the less, our lineage does trace back to the founding, and idealism of the original Illuminati, therefore we feel we can truthfully call ourselves as such.

The NWO is a greatly overlooked, and falsely accused origination when it comes to association with the legitimate Illuminati Shards, however it is merely one of many groups / ideas we carefully surveil.

reply to post by Maban


Thanks for the info Maban! - a very coherent and informative answer. I also salute you for not getting angry at someone who questioned some of your assertions. I wish all ATSer could be as cordial as you are.

Your first reply was especially informative as I'd never heard any of this. I hope you will continue to post and give us more information on your order.