True origins of the Illuminati.....

The Illuminati is a fascinating topic, even though it scares me. If any of you are into video games, you should play Deus Ex. It's a great game on its own, but it involves the Illuminati and Majestic 12. It's full of conspiracy, it's great.

P.S. NephraTari, kudos on the avatar.

Originally posted by valnrick
has anyone read the illuminatus trilogy. books:
The eye in the pyramid
The Golden Apple
Leviathan

Yes although it really supports the weishaupt origins myth.

Are those books really interesting to read? What genre are they? I might look into getting myself a copy.

By genre I mean mystery, suspense, drama, etc, etc.

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by Faisca]

Originally posted by riffraffalunas

Isn't the concept that; The ILLUMINATI create the NWO, not visa-versa...?

i think the 'Illuminati' is woven into and appears in many
guises.

i think the Rosicrusians, Knights Templar, and scores of Rennessiance people (you mentioned Galileo) were 'enlightened'.

i also you have to peel away these people & groups also,
because the core or foundation of illuminati was the
neo-lithic 'priest/shaman class' united with the 'kingly/royal class'->>eventually developing into
the 'blue-bloods' as time & populations increased.

i may be quite wrong, but the illuminati society,
was first tried during the Golden Age of Greece...

and has since been morphed into a pseudo-demonic
self-serving man-god theme of today...
the so called puppet-masters

Eh? is this path a lush flowering vista...or...just a
dried up stream-bed....you'll not know unless you look!

EYJ, EOM

hmm you may be onto something there.
The Roscrucians.. while they have the appearance of a religion have many odd things about them. It is not easy to join and to do so you must take a lifetime oath much like other "secret societies" but they also claim to have guarded high secrets.. hidden knowlege etc.

How far back do the roscruscians go?

Originally posted by Faisca
Are those books really interesting to read? What genre are they? I might look into getting myself a copy.

By genre I mean mystery, suspense, drama, etc, etc.

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by Faisca]

Very interesting indeed.
You can purchase all three in one as the trilogy and that is how it seems to be marketed by default these days.
genre is multiple.
suspense,fantasy,adventure,mystery oh my you will find a bit of everything including some very elicit sexual content as well... I would highly recommend the Illuminatus Trilogy to anyone even remotely interested in the Illuminati or the NWO.
Click here to see the book on Amazon.com

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by NephraTari]

Originally posted by NephraTari
How far back do the roscruscians go?

"Official" date of foundation is 1915 (or 1909) by Harvey Spencer Lewis, but lots of people also believe it to be WAY older.

Are you sure about that oath thing? I knew about the Freemasons, but didn't knew there was that same thing applied for Rosicrucians members.

Their "hidden knowledge" seems really interesting. They dabble a lot in meta-physical, psychological and spiritual stuff.

Here's an interesting text about AMORC (Ancient & Mystic order of the Rosae Crucis)

The Rosicrucian society was apparently founded in Europe in medieval times (its existence can be traced back to 12th century in Europe and earlier in Asia), and was given impetus by the publication of three anonymous pamphlets in successive years:

1. Fama Fraternitatis (Account of the Brotherhood, 1614)
2. The Confessio Fraternitatis (Confession of the Brotherhood, 1615)
3. The Third Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosencreutz (1616)

They describe the initiation into the spiritual and alchemical mysteries of the East (particularly of ancient Egypt) of Christian Rosenkreuz, who was allegedly born in 1378 but is presumed to be an allegorical figure. The expressed purpose of the Fama and associated writings was the spiritualization of individuals according to quasi-Christian and esoteric principles. Scholars believe these pamphlets, which are anti-papal and promote Protestant ethics, were probably written by the German Lutheran pastor Johan Valentin Andreae (1586-1654).

Despite arousing enthusiasm in the expanding occult community, no later records exist for membership of the Order. In the eighteenth century various tracts and manifestoes were published asserting the existence of the Brothers of the Rosy Cross, and several groups claiming Rosicrucian origins were active in Russia, Poland, and Germany.

The first Rosicrucian society in the United States was founded in Pennsylvania in 1694. In 1909 Harvey Spencer Lewis founded The Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis (AMORC) which now has its headquarters in San Jose, California. Lewis claimed to have been initiated into the Brotherhood in France. The AMORC is an international fraternal order that operates through a system of lodges and fosters the Rosicrucian philosophy of developing humankind's highest potentialities and psychic powers. Through study and practice, members strive for the perfection with the ultimate goal being admittance into the Lodge and the attainment of true knowledge, or cosmic consciousness. Students progress through twelve degrees of mastery, with the tenth through twelfth degrees conferred psychically, usually in the Order's temples in the East. As in Theosophy, such perfection comes only after various reincarnations, each devoted to achieving a greater oneness with the Supreme Being. Rosicrucians claim influence on Freemasonry, especially since the eighteenth Masonic degree is the Sovereign Prince Rose Croix of Heredom.

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by m0rbid]

Just a couple of observations:

"The Hiram Key" by Knight and Lomas has ben universally discredited by Masonic scholars. Granted, it spins a good yarn, but evidence to support their conclusions is zilch.
For those interested in the scholarly study of the history of Freemasonry instead of merely lore, I strongly recommend "A Comprehensive View of Freemasonry" by Henry Wilson Coil, and "The Builders" by Dr. Joseph Fort Newton.

Concerning Weishaupt and the Illuminati:

I posted on this topic in depth in another thread, so will not waste space ranting again. But for those interested:

1. Weishaupt originally modelled the Illuminati after a secret society in the American colonies called the Sons of Liberty. The Sons were probably responsible for the Boston Tea Party, and Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, and Revere were members.

2. Weishaupt's plan was to organize a Bavarian revolution similar to the American Revolution. Most members of the Iluminati were either Deists or Protestants, and were being persecuted by the Jesuit Electorate because of their religious beliefs.

3. While in exile, Weishaupt published the formerly secret papers of the Order in a book titled "In Defense of Illuminism" in order to counter the slander and conspiracy theories being invented against them by the Roman Church in a propaganda war. Anyone interested in the Illuminati are strongly recommended to study these papers by the Order's founder.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by m0rbid

Originally posted by NephraTari
How far back do the roscruscians go?

"Official" date of foundation is 1915 (or 1909) by Harvey Spencer Lewis, but lots of people also believe it to be WAY older.

Are you sure about that oath thing? I knew about the Freemasons, but didn't knew there was that same thing applied for Rosicrucians members.

Their "hidden knowledge" seems really interesting. They dabble a lot in meta-physical, psychological and spiritual stuff.

Here's an interesting text about AMORC (Ancient & Mystic order of the Rosae Crucis)

The Rosicrucian society was apparently founded in Europe in medieval times (its existence can be traced back to 12th century in Europe and earlier in Asia), and was given impetus by the publication of three anonymous pamphlets in successive years:

1. Fama Fraternitatis (Account of the Brotherhood, 1614)
2. The Confessio Fraternitatis (Confession of the Brotherhood, 1615)
3. The Third Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosencreutz (1616)

They describe the initiation into the spiritual and alchemical mysteries of the East (particularly of ancient Egypt) of Christian Rosenkreuz, who was allegedly born in 1378 but is presumed to be an allegorical figure. The expressed purpose of the Fama and associated writings was the spiritualization of individuals according to quasi-Christian and esoteric principles. Scholars believe these pamphlets, which are anti-papal and promote Protestant ethics, were probably written by the German Lutheran pastor Johan Valentin Andreae (1586-1654).

Despite arousing enthusiasm in the expanding occult community, no later records exist for membership of the Order. In the eighteenth century various tracts and manifestoes were published asserting the existence of the Brothers of the Rosy Cross, and several groups claiming Rosicrucian origins were active in Russia, Poland, and Germany.

The first Rosicrucian society in the United States was founded in Pennsylvania in 1694. In 1909 Harvey Spencer Lewis founded The Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis (AMORC) which now has its headquarters in San Jose, California. Lewis claimed to have been initiated into the Brotherhood in France. The AMORC is an international fraternal order that operates through a system of lodges and fosters the Rosicrucian philosophy of developing humankind's highest potentialities and psychic powers. Through study and practice, members strive for the perfection with the ultimate goal being admittance into the Lodge and the attainment of true knowledge, or cosmic consciousness. Students progress through twelve degrees of mastery, with the tenth through twelfth degrees conferred psychically, usually in the Order's temples in the East. As in Theosophy, such perfection comes only after various reincarnations, each devoted to achieving a greater oneness with the Supreme Being. Rosicrucians claim influence on Freemasonry, especially since the eighteenth Masonic degree is the Sovereign Prince Rose Croix of Heredom.

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by m0rbid]

I am not absolutely certain of that, but I was researching them a month or so ago and I recall something that set off warning bells for me. I will have to back track and take a look at the sites and info I found again...

In the meantime are there any Roscrucians here at ATS that could clear this up easier than I?

Honnestly, from all the stuff I've read from different secret societies, the Rosicrucian Order must be the one that setted off the less alarms bells for me.

They really seem to achieve spiritual enlightement, and reaching the complete fullfillment of one's potential.

I've been interested in them for a while. I don't know anyone here who would say he/she "is" a Rosicrucian, but I know Soothsayer knows quite a bit about them.

Originally posted by m0rbid
Honnestly, from all the stuff I've read from different secret societies, the Rosicrucian Order must be the one that setted off the less alarms bells for me.

They really seem to achieve spiritual enlightement, and reaching the complete fullfillment of one's potential.

I've been interested in them for a while. I don't know anyone here who would say he/she "is" a Rosicrucian, but I know Soothsayer knows quite a bit about them.

So you don't think that they could be at all related to the origins of the illuminati?

A lot of you will probably know but still lots of info,....

www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm

Originally posted by NephraTari
So you don't think that they could be at all related to the origins of the illuminati?

Huum...I don't know. They could. Both society aim to reach 'enlightement'. But wich one orgininated the other? I wouldn't know.

I do believe, tho, that if the Illuminati is still, somehow, alive today, they must have infiltrated all levels of society, and probably secret societies too.

So I don't believe that the higher ranks (or the founders) of Rosicrucians are totally unaware of the Illuminati agenda.

Originally posted by NephraTari

Originally posted by valnrick
has anyone read the illuminatus trilogy. books:
The eye in the pyramid
The Golden Apple
Leviathan

Yes although it really supports the weishaupt origins myth.

I noticed that also, I started reading it lastnight. But I like the way that it does put the source on most everything.

Originally posted by valnrick

Originally posted by NephraTari

Originally posted by valnrick
has anyone read the illuminatus trilogy. books:
The eye in the pyramid
The Golden Apple
Leviathan

Yes although it really supports the weishaupt origins myth.

I noticed that also, I started reading it lastnight. But I like the way that it does put the source on most everything.

oh man, you just started huh?

be prepared for a wild ride.

The history of the Rosicrucians is a fascinating topic. We know that the Order dates back to at least the time of the Fama (circa 1610 or so). According to the Fama, the Fraternity was very old, even then.
One working theory is that the Rosicrucians invented modern Freemasonry. The time line seems to support this notion, even if other evidence is lacking. In the early 1600's, Masonic Lodges still consisted of operative stonemasons only. The Rosicrucians "disappeared" at about the same time the ancient masonic rites were re-written to include mystical and philosophical doctrines very similar to those of the Rosicrucians. The 18� of Scottish Rite Masonry (Knight Rose Croix) is a Rosicrucian degree, and the Masonic Rosicrucian Society continues to maintain Colleges in the U.S., Canada, and Britain.
Lewis' A.M.O.R.C. is an interesting organization, but has no historical ties to the original Rosicrucians. Lewis received an honorary charter from Theodore Reuss, who was at the time International Grand Master of Ordo Templi Orientis (both he and his successor, Aleister Crowley, attempted to revive the Bavarian llluminati through this group unsuccessfully). Lewis invoked this charter in order to show continental Rosicrucian authority for A.M.O.R.C., but was either pulling our leg or was himself not aware that O.T.O. had no such authority to confer.

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 17-3-2004 by Masonic Light]

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by Masonic Light]

how does the rosicrusians do their recluting, how do they get their members? I remember back in the seventies I was probably about 11 or 12 it was an ad in the news papler with a piramid and an eye I was very curious at the time an I ask my father about it, he has always been a seventh day adventist so he said to me that that was a group that worshiped the devil, well at 11 or 12 I was still interested on the ad and it say risicrusians so I send them a letter that I wanted to be a member I remember waiting for the mail so my father and mother did not found out that I was dealing with the devil, I truly believe that that was not true I mean the devil thing so for months I reseived all king of pamphlet about their organization and the powers that I could get over the mind, I found all that facinating I never answer them back and about one year later I have a lettler talling me that It was obvious that I was a very curious person but clearly not ready for their teachings, and that was the end of the story, so it this sound like the way they do things?

Some very helpful information that you posted there MasonicLight, thank you for sharing that. That does shed quite a bit more light on the history of the order.

oh and Marg..... I had no idea that they ever used the eye in the pyramid as a symbol in their recruiting.

That would definately tie them to both the Illuminati AND Freemasonry..

Interesting stuff indeed.

Nevermind...

[Edited on 18-3-2004 by Faisca]

I found all that facinating I never answer them back and about one year later I have a lettler talling me that It was obvious that I was a very curious person but clearly not ready for their teachings, and that was the end of the story, so it this sound like the way they do things?

I'm not a member of A.M.O.R.C., so I don't have any personal experience with that fraternity. I do, however, have several friends who are members, and judging from what I've heard from them, A.M.O.R.C. appears to teach a standard Hermetic-Qabalist curriculum that is consistent with most other Rosicrucian schools.
I personally am a member of Builders of the Adytum, which was formed as the successor of the Alpha et Omega Temple of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (Thoth-Hermes). Our website is www.bota.org...
A.M.O.R.C. appears to teach basically the same disciplines as B.O.T.A., just using different methods.

As for the All Seeing Eye:

This symbol is almost universal. It probably was invented by the pre-Hindu Vedics in India, and was also used by the Greeks and Egyptians. Is exoteric interpretation is that it represents the Omnipresence of God, who sees not only our actions, but also what is contained in the human heart.
One of its esoteric interpretations is that it alludes to the Sahasrara Chakra, sometimes called the "Third Eye" by Hindus and Theosophists, the opening of which allows access to higher consciousness.

Fiat Lvx.

I was a child really so It could had been some variation of it. Isnt, the eye the symbol of Osiris in Egyptian myth The havenly eye I always believed the eye of Ra. In school a lot of teachers when they start teaching in second grade to the students about money they tell the children that the eye on the bill is the eye of God watching over people. So how do the masons related to the myth of osiris. By the way the tomb of Osiris was discover allready in february 16 of 2000.