Two mind-twisting (to me) questions about infinity.

First question. God, by definition, must have always existed. If you try to express the number of billions of Earth years God existed before he created the universe, you couldn't do it no matter how many zeros you end the number with. I know God is supposedly incapable of any kind of negativity, but how did he not get bored just existing alone in his perfection for that long?

Second question about infinity. Religious people say we are going to live forever, even if we're located in a very unpleasant place. When I try to imagine living forever, even in a totally loving place, it's hard for me not to say that it might be too long. After a billion billion years times a billion, I can imagine pleading with God to release me from existence. Even living in bliss forever seems a bit too long.

The concept of infinity ties my brain in knots.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by droid56]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by droid56]

There is no god, only CHAOS!
chaos being, as explained in LIBER NULL by Peter Carroll transcribed by Elendraug i69!:


* That which is responsible for the origin and continued action of events.

* ...the force which adds increasing complexity to the universe by spawning
structures which were not inherent to its component parts.

* ...the force which caused life to evolve itself out of the dust.

* ...is currently most concentrated in the human life force, or Kia,
where it is...

* ...the source of consciousness.
28
* ...cannot be known directly.

* [gets its name]...from the bizarre and indeterminate nature of the
aetheric plane.

* [we are]...centers of Kia or Chaos.
29
* All ones thoughts, obsessions, and demons must be reabsorbed before
Kia can become one with Chaos.
40
* It is true that the mind must be finally surrendered as one enters
fully into Chaos, but a complete and balanced psychocosm is more
easily surrendered.
41
* In beginning the great work of obtaining the knowledge and conversation
[of our Holy Guardian Angel or Augoeides], the magician vows 'to interpret
every manifestation of existence as a direct message from the infinite
Chaos to himself personally.'
49
* Space, time, mass, and energy originate from Chaos, have their being
in Chaos, and through the agency of the aether are moved by Chaos in
the multiple forms of existence.
52
* What is a god but man wielding the force of Chaos? To him nothing
is true; everything is permitted.

---------------------------------------------- --------------------------------

The infinite cannot be explained, I believe we learn and experience by adapting the stimulus into symbols made of thought, those symbols are constructed in part by education, environment and dwelling, there is nothing in our culture that is infinite, the symbol is confusing the programming because it doesn't recognize its meaning in the sphere of reality.

Its like when a number reaches millions of millions and is represented in a visual numerical form, to the minds eye the symbol looses meaning, we know the "thing" we see are numbers, but how many looses all significance.

I try to understand infinity, but in doing so, I know that the best i can do is not worry about it much, to me the the value of infinity comes from the fact that its OUT THERE, that it exists, that we are just a fractal particle completing the WHOLE.

peace!

reply to post by droid56


Bringing God into this subject just makes it more confusing.
.............................................._
Just think of Infinity as 10/3=3.333
The 3 never ends, but it does exist.

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Tentickles]

[edit on 18-8-2008 by Tentickles]

I'm still working on the whole...how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood thing... and haven't even gotten to the sound of one hand clapping yet...

Really didn't need this put on my plate right now... %^&*%

My frontal lobe hurts... look what you have done to me... arggggh

reply to post by Tentickles


To infinity and beyond!

I'll drink to that.

Originally posted by droid56
I know God is supposedly incapable of any kind of negativity, but how did he not get bored just existing alone in his perfection for that long?

Imo any conception of god that excludes "negative" things is only half the story. The interplay between positive and negative is what makes the universe change, from attractions and repulsions in personal relationships to the attraction and repulsion of planets around a star and electrons around an atomic nucleus.

Time doesn't have to be linear, either, though that's a harder concept to convey. Periods of time in 4D could basically be seen as single shapes instead of a sequence of 3D "frames," similarly to 3D consisting of an infinite number of thin cross-sections in 2D.

Is it possible that God wasn't always God? Just as we are promised to inherent (i hope i spelled that word right) immortality and Godliness and become just as God is, and seeing that we were created in Gods own image, could he have used the same promise as the one he was promised?

"Asking what happened before the beginning of the universe is like asking what is one mile north of the North Pole."
-Stephen Hawking

Just thought I'd toss that out there...

Seriously... maybe this can help it's a link to and an excerpt from The Sophia of Christ... in this is supposedly Christs answer to your question...

although I dare say, it will probably be more confusing than the question itself... apparently G-d had company within an instant of self perception.

Sophia of Christ

The Lord of the Universe is not called 'Father', but 'Forefather', the beginning of those that will appear, but he (the Lord) is the beginningless Forefather. Seeing himself within himself in a mirror, he appeared resembling himself, but his likeness appeared as Divine Self-Father, and Confronter over the Confronted ones, First Existent Unbegotten Father. He is indeed of equal age the Light that is before him, but he is not equal to him in power.

As I understand this all, G-d himself came into being and upon recognition of himself instantly created was one called "the unbegotten Father" an exact duplicate of g-d but not with quite the same power, in that same instant the unbegotten father noticed himself and another was duplicated... and so on and so on...

it sounds almost like cosmic cell division with the unbegotten g-ds eventually coming to reside infinitely within G-d "the beginingless forefather" It sounds to me...remarkably like the process of fertilization in which an egg inseminated, divides and then divides again, each Cell carrying the same Dna as the first cell until a whole organism is formed, each cell being a life/G-d Dna... in some fractal, higher dimensional reflection on life as we know it.

Before "god created the universe" there obviously was no universe. Since time is just a dimension of our universe, before the creation of the universe there also was no time. Therefore, there is no "infinity of time" to talk about in the first place. Simple logic.

Originally posted by Wallachian
Before "god created the universe" there obviously was no universe. Since time is just a dimension of our universe, before the creation of the universe there also was no time. Therefore, there is no "infinity of time" to talk about in the first place. Simple logic.

Yes.

Some theological systems have posited the act of creation as ONGOING. That is, in order for eveyrthing in the universe to exist, God has to be giving his attention/putting his energy in RIGHT NOW. If he "turned away" from this act, the whole universe -- past, present, and future -- would just disappear, like a child's soap bubble popping. In this sense, creation is not so much a "before-and-after" linear event in time but something that transcends time and is "ongoing" so to speak.

Originally posted by droid56
I know God is supposedly incapable of any kind of negativity, but how did he not get bored just existing alone in his perfection for that long?

The key word there is 'alone'. 'Alone' is an observed state, and once a divided viewpoint between the subjective and objective is assumed, the first dialectic corollary is: "the act of doing presupposes opposition."

When I try to imagine living forever, even in a totally loving place, it's hard for me not to say that it might be too long.

Agreed; perhaps an analogy would help here. Remember, as a young child, say, 10 or so, how long every year seemed? Like last year was forever ago, almost. Well, I've heard it said that's because, to a small child, each year is like 20% of their self-aware rememberable life, and it seems long because it's proportionally long. As we live, that proportion changes, and years just don't seem as long anymore. Now, extend that analogy to, say, someone who's lived 10,000 years. A decade would seem so short! The trend continues, logically; as life-lived increases, your perception would change. So, worrying about how you'd perceive something like that now, with the perception you have now, isn't accurate.