Proving the existence of God is possible, never stop trying.

Proving the existence of God is possible, never stop trying.

In the thread titled, "Proving the existence of God is not possible, stop trying," I felt that my case, that God and the things of God can in fact be proven by any individual who chooses to prove them, was being ignored.

However the whole experience has been wonderfully eye opening for me.

I now understand that while ATS' theoretically speaking, is all about denying ignorance and embracing truth, in practice it can only provide a platform to accomplish the opposite.

People are encouraged and directed to seek truth in others outside of themselves, they are not confronted by those on the board who know better.

Only a coward would refuse to demand of his fellow man that they take up their personal responsibility to find the truth within, to make a stand and firmly state that it cannot be found outside of one's self.

The effect of this lack of integrity in the end, only leads to the embrace of ignorance and the denying of truth.

Of course the reason for this sort of thing is always the same everywhere you go, bottom line, it is fear by those in authority.

You are never the worse for demanding that the truth be the line in the sand, even if it means a loss in revenues, or a personal sacrifice.

There is no need to fear what might happen if you take a stand for the truth.

I pray for the day we all find the courage, not to only talk the talk of denying ignorance and embracing truth, but we will put it into practice, demanding it out of ourselves and the others around us.

It is my opinion that if an individual proves something in real physical terms for themselves, then it is as much proven as if you put together physical evidence and presented a case to the collective herd mind, and the chief authorities recognized by the herd, stamp it proven.

What I thought I would do about it is put together this post on the subject.

I've taken what I thought to be the main points from all my posts in the opposite thread, and I am putting them here so they can be considered by others.

Hopefully someone will explain how it is that if the individual proves something in real physical terms that his proof is not proof?


If you succeed in proving God and the things of God for yourself, is it any more or less proven if the herd mind leaders accept it and convince the herd?

Why should anyone stop trying to prove the existence of anything?

What are people afraid of?

If there is no God then there is nothing to be concerned about.

Faith is meant to be evidenced, that is its purpose in my opinion, otherwise why have any faith in anything?

The things of God can absolutely without question be proven, and have been by untold millions and millions of people since it all began.

People draw comfort to their conscience away from their denial by saying to themselves things such as, "faith is belief in something that can't be proven," as if it is true because they read it in the dictionary of heard it at church, but they conveniently ignore the promise of faith, that is it is to be evidenced for evidence.

I don't know if it holds true across every religion, but I do know that the major religions recognize a common command to each of their faithful by their Deity, which is to "PROVE" Him and all things related to the spirit.

God challenges all people to; "PROVE," Him, because He knows what will happen if you try, that is why we are asked by God to have faith in Him in the first place.

You can take this in any interpretation of religion you like.

If God exists, why wouldn't He want every human being to have proof of His existence?

There are certain universal governing laws of reality which any person can learn and apply to manifest supernatural miraculous power from God..

For instance what God normally has me do, when the occasion presents itself, is perform miracles for people.

I have done this more times than I can count.

You may say, "Well that isn't evidence of anything," and you would be correct, but you would also be incorrect at the same time.

My performing a miracle may not be evidence for you, but it is certainly evidence for me, because I am the one performing the exhibition of supernatural miraculous power, and I know how it is being done.

No one is ever going to prove or disprove to another person anything to do with God, but the individual person not only can, "PROVE," the existence of God and the spiritual for themselves, but they are challenged to do just that by God Himself, regardless of what religious label your God has been slapped with.

The fact that people adamantly and forcefully demand that others stop trying to do what God commands they should do, which is "PROVE HIM," to me clearly shows, that while it may not be a conscious conspiracy against God, people are being manipulated to strive against His commonly accepted and universally recognized will.

Who are we that we should stand against God?

I have already proven the existence of God for myself.

Should I not consider the fact that I am now able to perform miracles and have done so repeatedly at the minimum as evidence for the existence of spiritual?

I was told that if I believed, I would receive power as a token, specifically the power to manifest the gift of God in nine definable measurable ways, real effects in physical terms, I believed and have done exactly that repeatedly.

Shouldn't I consider my new abilities as evidence; I mean I wasn't able to manifest supernatural miraculous power before I came to know God?

If you want proof it is available to have, anyone can prove God anytime anywhere.

What I am calling proof is exactly that it is not faith, it is the exhibition of spiritual power in definable measurable ways, the physical manifestation of the gift of holy spirit, how is that faith?

I am not talking about something happening in my head, or just believing and telling myself I am doing something, I am talking about literally physically doing it.

God provided his gift as evidence to be evidenced.

To the person performing an operation of spiritual power it is not only evidence, but for that individual it can serve as sufficient physical evidence to qualify as proof?

The reason that no one can prove to anyone other than themselves the existence of God or the spiritual, is because of the quantum nature of the universe.

Life begins from within us not from without, and that is how it works, we must deal with reality the way it is, not the way we want it to be, God will not redo the universe just to suit one person.

God and the existence of the spiritual can absolutely without question be proven, but only the individual can do it for themselves, not because of God is hiding from us, but because of the quantum nature of the universe, that is just how things work.

There is no resolution between the people who believe it is possible to prove God and the things of God, and the people who believe it is not possible.

Proclaiming you know the truth, in the statement that the existence of God cannot be proven, does not make it correct, it only means that you do not believe it is possible and will no longer consider it to be otherwise?

This attitude shows an ignorance and unwillingness to learn regarding the things of faith, when they are told something such as faith is also a law, these individuals refuse to acknowledge new possibilities for how things might be proven.

If you want proof of the existence of God and the things of God the first thing you must do is acknowledge that faith is also a law, because you can not manifest spiritual power without utilizing the law of faith.

The only way we can prove God and the things of God is to bring them into our reality, to literally experience God and the things of God in our life and living, which is absolute proof to anyone who does it.

My opinion is people engage in a lot of self deceptions when it comes to God, they attempt to find excuses not to bother proving God or the things of God, by convincing themselves that it is not possible.

They tell themselves that it must not be possible to prove God, and for comfort sake they seek to draw others into their self deception by demanding they stop trying to prove things as they have.

God and the things of God can absolutely be proven by anyone, anytime, anywhere I know this to be a fact, to convince oneself that they can't is a mistake.

Have you ever considered the possibility that people who say they have "proved" God to themselves, have done just that and are only trying to tell others the truth as they see it.

My proof is physical and substantial in the form of operations of supernatural miraculous power, which anyone can do, if they are willing to accept and learn some basics about faith and the quantum nature of the universe.

Any individual that chooses to can absolutely prove God and the things of God in real physical terms by performing an operation of supernatural miraculous power, it is that simple.

Personally performing any of the nine manifestation of holy spirit serves as real physical evidence of God and spiritual things, it is even more than sufficient to qualify as proof, that is for the individual doing the operation.

I agree that it is not proof to any person who may witness it, so in that sense you can not provide proof of God or the things of God to another person, but the manifestation of holy spirit are absolute physical evidence for the individual manifesting, which anyone can have if they choose to.

The reason you can prove the existence of God for yourself, but not to someone else, is because of the quantum nature of reality.

While God is alive, He does not exist as part of the substance of our universe, you can't cut off a piece of God put it in a box and give it to someone.

Can you take a sample piece of a thought from your head to prove it exists in physical terms to someone else?

Thoughts may be the result of electro chemical reactions, but the thought itself does not exist as part of the substance of our universe, thoughts are formless, you can't cut off a piece of a thought put it in a box and give it so someone.

However you can manifest your thoughts physically by speaking them, and give someone a piece of your mind if you like.

God and the things of God are exactly the same.

You can't hold a piece of the spiritual, spiritual things are formless, but you can manifest them in physical terms, in nine definable measurable ways, anyone can.

By manifesting holy spirit you prove it exists in the same way as you are proving your thoughts exist when you speak.

My speaking does not prove to the person hearing me that I am having a thought, but for the person speaking, it is absolute proof that thoughts do exist in their head and they are occurring.

A person speaking manifests in physical terms the existence of thought.

God is Spirit and exists outside of our space time, we are part of physical reality God is not, He shapes our physical reality.

Think of all of us, that is all of our individual consciousness and realities as existing like thoughts in the mind of God.

God gives all men plenty of physical evidence He is living and real, through signs miracles and wonders, and anyone at anytime in anyplace can prove God for themselves if they decide to, all it takes is learning some things like what I learned from the bible and personal revelations about the quantum nature of reality and the law of faith.

It is incorrect to say it is not possible to prove God or the things of God

It is correct however to say, it is not possible to provide another with proof of God or the things of God,

I hear some people talk about they were Christian and never manifested any supernatural miraculous power.

My question to such a person is, what does being a Christian have to do with God or proving the things of God?

From my personal dealings I concluded that Christian religious teachings, of ideas such as the trinity and life after death, if believed can only serve to obstruct the individual from manifesting the power of God and proving it for themselves, and that is exactly what they have done for thousands of years.

Evidence is evidence whether or not a court or you accept it, and proof is proof regardless of who recognizes it as such.

The manifestation of holy spirit are physical evidence of the existence of God and the things of God, and for the individual performing them it is sufficient evidence to qualify as proof.

Any person who literally performs any one or combination of the nine displays of the gift of God is proving physically and substantially for themselves their existence.

It is incorrect to say that the existence of God cannot be proven because it can be, by the individual, literally.

I will make my case plainer for people to read.

To do this I will be quoting the bible, not as to provide evidence that I am correct, but simply because it is what I know best, and I can draw upon it to help in making and illustrating my points.

God is a living God, and life is real.

The same way in which God moved in the individuals who wrote the bile, it was received by revelation, is the same way He moves in people who interpret it.

Anything, written, formed, or made, that people look to in the belief that it holds truth and meaning, that originated with God, which can be thought by that person as Gods word, as far as I am concerned, it can all work as scripture.

If the thing, written, formed, or made, was received by revelation from God then revelation is required to gain a real time working interpretation from it.

God does not change He is eternal; if He gave his word by revelation then revelation is required to interpret it.

If God communicated His will directly to the individuals who wrote the bible or Koran then He must communicate the interpretation directly to those who interpret it, for the interpretation to be real in the sense that it can work and be applicable real time for that individual in their life.

For this reason I do not use words necessarily the way a dictionary might define that they be used, but I use them in ways which I feel they will help others understand things as I understand them.

Which this is a side note, but all holly writings are like this, God uses words and language the way He wants them to be understood, to mean what He decides for them to mean..

That is why people who try and use the accepted definitions of words from original languages and such, as a way of interpreting scriptures, not allowing for revelation, for God to communicate His meaning and use of those words and languages by enlightening it to their hearts in real time, they will always be confronted by contradictions that have no answer, and ideas that when put into practice never produce the expected results.

There is subjective and objective truth, only the individual can know the objective truth for themselves, because it is hid in God who alone is all knowing.

No person can read the bible and tell you their interpretation and you then know the objective truth, at best all you will have is subjective truth, and at the worse a lie.

For a person to understand what the objective truth is at any given moment, they must receive it by revelation, which means they must operate for themselves one or a combination of three spiritual manifestation, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of spirits.

This is why God can say something such as, "prove all things," and you can have any number of interpretations, contradictory one to the other, and yet objectively speaking each of the individuals with their own personal interpretation could all be correct at the same time.

The simultaneous co-existence of both subjective and objective truth, the quantum paradox of consciousness, the simultaneous co-existence of both the physical and spiritual reality, the duality of life itself, are all the result of the quantum nature of things.

If you know the spiritual then you can know a fuller measure of what is real, you can know objective truth in real time, you can see through the eyes of God.

Unless you know the spiritual, then you can only know of the physical, which is at best the subjective truth in real time.

Both are true, one is a fuller truth which recognizes the existence of both; the other can only recognizes the existence of itself.

You either recognize the simultaneous co-existence of both subjective and objective truth or you don't, but regardless of your belief, this is either the nature of things in the literal sense outside of belief or disbelief, or it is not.

I submit that it is indeed part of the context of all of our realities.

The simultaneous co-existence of both subjective and objective truth is merely the reflection upon consciousness of the simultaneous co-existence of both the spiritual and physical realities.

It is because of this fact, the simultaneous co-existence of both subjective and objective truth, that any individual can objectively physically prove God and the things of God.

All that is required to prove the existence of God and the things of God is for the individual to personally manifest supernatural miraculous power, to exercise spiritual means to produce a measurable effect upon physical reality.

However no physical evidence can be provided to another human being, all signs, miracles, and wonders, performed by any individual, can only be witnessed contextually subjectively.

Religion, the belief in a God coupled with a system of worship, exists as and for a denial of the power of God.

True spirituality is all the power of God available in all of the people equally, it allows self governance to occur sustained by supernatural manifestation.

All the great religions such as Christianity begin in true spirituality, the power of God clearly evidenced by and in all those whom God brings together, a movement directed from the bottom up, stirred in the hearts of every single participant from the inside first.

God may bring people together for a single event, or for a lifetime of events, it is done to impart edification to all involved by the direction of God Himself..

Men without conscience, individuals who trust government more than God to give them power, see a true movement of God and descend upon it as an opportunity to establish themselves, as rulers over the weaker minded and less mature of the people involved.

Those less mature in the movement have not yet fully developed in their relationships with God making them vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation, they are devoured by wolfs in sheep clothing so to speak, and become the bases for a religion.

This is how we get all religions, it is certainly how we got the Christian religion.


Religion is a denial of the power of God, a devolution from true spirituality.

In the end people who become faithful adherents and practitioners of a religion are the most valuable among us, making themselves, by their devotion to religion above God, to be the weakest most easily manipulated and exploited people among the nations.

Religious people attempt to accomplish spiritual things, such as having an active relationship with the creator where both parties participate practicality effecting circumstance, they try and do this by using physical means only, such as personal discipline or obedience to authority, this is not possible.

God can only be worshiped in the realities of physical life and circumstance by spiritual means.

If you make the worship of God a goal then it can not be accomplished by discipline, personal commitment, or any physical method.

If you actually attempt to believe and practice a religion, any religion as a system of worship, it reduces your reality and makes you more vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation than even people who have no religion at all.

Religion deceives people, if you accept it, then you giving up your rights to walk in the true liberty of the spirit, by the supernatural operation of miraculous power from God, for the sake of religious governance.

Religion is a denial of the power of God, this is why religion always leads to the final step of human decline which is science.

Science is an attempt to regain power through natural means, power which we instinctively feel that we should have

God gives his gift to all as a token, for the purpose of every believing person to have evidence to be evidenced

God and the things of God can and should be evidenced in real physical terms.

You should experience the operation of supernatural miraculous power for yourself, all who say they believe God are required to prove Him for themselves, to be able to see that what they have is true and real and not simply in their head.

As believers it is our burden to bear, and until we are mature enough to accomplish the manifesting of the gift of God, we need only be encouraged to grow toward that day.

But religion is a great evil upon the earth killing the seed before it can sprout, and the Christian religion is chief among the hands of demons to pluck out those that rise up before they can bloom.


No one needs religion to tell them of the existence of God.

You may disagree, but if God in fact does exists, and He is everywhere present, then it is literally impossible at a certain place in our consciousness not know of His existence.

A person may not believe God exists but it would be impossible at a certain level not to know He exists.

This is why it is assumed that all mankind is without any excuse, because at some point we know God exists, but we chose not to recognize His existence and believe.

Religion is a deception over the minds of people, it denies the power of God, it entices people to become apathetic toward the reality of the existence of God, by focusing their attention and activity on physical realities, such as rights an rituals.

Religion breads apathy toward God and the things of God in people, which apathy is a form of unbelief.

Anyone who desires can manifest spiritual power, they can have all the proof of God and the things of God they need, if they are willing to grow in their understanding of what is real and possible.

There are nine definable measurable ways which an individual can physically exhibit the gift of God.

Performing any one or a combination of the nine manifestation, can be for the individual doing the exhibition, irrefutable poof of God and the things of God.

You can prove the existence of God and the things of God, by manifesting supernatural miraculous power, and if you haven't, then you should keep trying until you do, because it is available, I have done it myself as have millions upon millions of others down through the centuries.

There are nine ways in which spirit can be manifested, and every single one has a definable measurable effect on physical reality.

Every manifestation, every miracle or healing performed, is literally evidenced physically in some way, they have all had multiple witnesses to them, some have been photographed and videotaped, some have had medical proof such as x-rays, blood test, cat-scans and the like, to back them up.

When you exhibit supernatural miraculous power it is exactly that, it is an exhibition, a real physical display, that is why displays of the power of God are also called, "SIGNS," and "WONDERS."

In fact you can call yourself a "CHRISTIAN" and claim you have "FAITH" all day long, but if there is no physical evidence in the form of signs, miracles, and wonders in your life, or the life of those around you to support that claim, then you may be "CHRISTIAN," but you are not a "BELIEVER."

The secular and religious definitions of "FAITH," are subjective and do not recognize the existence or need for physical evidence for ones "FAITH.".

A person who actually has "FAITH" objectively speaking, knows that without evidence faith is dead, that is to say that your "FAITH" personally is not living or real in any physical sense.

A "FAITH" that is alive is based on physical evidence, the physical evidence you can see and experience that your "FAITH" is indeed living and real

Here is just one of several verses in the bible talking about signs following them that believe.

You can find verses that say things to this effect in most all holy books, not just the bible.

Mr 16:17 - 18 (KJV)

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

End:

Of course the main reason every believer needs to see signs and wonders in the first place, is so you can avoid being deceived into believing ideas that obstruct personal growth and the operations of the manifestation of the spirit.

Christian ideas such as the trinity or life after death, they derail the growth and progress of young believers, it happens somewhere every single day of the week

Such ideas prevent immature believers from ever performing or witnessing any of the exhibitions of supernatural miraculous power that God has made available, and would have all men experience.

It does not matter how much evidence you have that a miracle occurred unless you are the one personally performing the miracle you are not in a position to "KNOW" how it was accomplished, you are in a subjective position regarding the reality of how the miracle was brought into existence.

Not "KNOWING" allows you to dismiss any evidence, or accept it, but also not to have to change your belief on the subject of God, because you can say the person performing the miracle is using science, they are a magician of some kind, or it was just a coincidence, you can tell yourself anything in order to maintain your belief at the time you witness the sign, miracle, or wonder.

As long as you are not the person performing the operation of supernatural miraculous power of God, then you can always find yourself some excuse not to accept the stated way in which the feat was accomplished, no natter how much evidence there may be to support the fact that it occurred and was real..

People who attempt to interject definitions of things from the dictionary, like regarding the words I use such as "subjective" and "objective," or who try to direct your thinking toward religious ideas around words such as, "faith" or "belief," these individuals most often unwittingly are doing the devils work as it were.

It is an attempt to redirect your thinking, by introducing to your mind the idea that there is a higher authority on the subject than yourself.

This is an attack to hinder you from actually physically accomplishing a thing that God would have you to do, it can come from anyone at anytime.

Here is an example for examples sake of what I aim saying from the bible, but once again you can find examples of this sort of thing from most all holy books not just the bible.

There are numerous examples that can be utilized, but here is the most commonly cited, Peter is doing this very same thing unknowingly to Jesus.

Mt 16:22 - 23 (KJV)

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

End:

We are the highest authority when it comes to the truth, no one else can tell you what the truth is, only the individual can find and know for themselves what the objective truth of a matter is, everything else is only subjective opinion.

You have your own mind, you can think for yourself, there is no need to look to secular and religious authorities that others would have you look to in order to make your determinations as to the truth of a matter, regardless the way the words or language are used to describe that truth.

The individual literally proving God and the things of God by operating supernatural miraculous power, can be witnessed and documented doing it, but the physical documentation and eyewitness accounts of the event will not be sufficient as to proved proof to others.

The performing of any one or combination of the nine manifestation is evidence of God and the things of God in real physical terms, and for the individual accomplishing the feat it is sufficient evidence to qualify as proof.

It is not possible to provide another human being with proof of the existence of God, only the individual can prove God and the things of God for themselves, that is the point I have been making all along with my comments.

God and the things of God can be proven, but it can only be accomplished by the individual.

The individual can prove God and the things of God in real physical terms, it is factual and substantial evidence which they use to do it, the personal manifestation of supernatural miraculous power, and it is as much proof of God and the things of God, as the kind of subjective non-proof that others would divert people attention towards focusing on.

God if He exists, by the very fact of His existence, compels that He be proven.

But because of certain laws which govern the construction and continuation of reality, and the quantum nature of the universe, only the individual can accomplish the feat of proving God and the things of God for themselves.

It can however be accomplished nonetheless.

I have made a case that God and the things of God can be proven in real physical terms, not only that it can be done, but I have gone into why only the individual can do it, and to a large degree how the individual can do it.

It is a valid reality to say that the individual can absolutely prove God and the things of God, in real physical terms, by personally manifesting spiritual power from God.

I tink thats the longest thread ive ever seen well done

i dont think we should ever give up in anything we do not just in proving God to be real

Didn't read it all I'm afraid. Must be the longest post of all time. =)

I am not gonna question your faith in things but I will tell you what wonder about.

I have a very hard time believing in someone that never have shown himself in anyway, but only through hearing about him through others.

And then you may say: Well , he make wonders everyday, havn't you notice?

My answer would be: No, not really.
All I see is people talking about it.
I hear stories about God saving them from car crashes and stuff like that, yet I wonder....where is he/she/it when thousands of human beings being killed in war? When thousands of people get killed because some morons felt like flying some planes into some buildings?

Where were he then?
I guess he was busy making a plant somewhere in the universe.
If he is so allmighty as some claim it would be more than easy for God to interfear and stop such things as well.


If he/she/it is the creator....who created him/her/it?

Things like this makes me doubt very much about a supreme being.

Again, I am not saying this to ridicule anyones belief, but just to explain why I doubt.

IF there is such thing as a God, I would guess it is a field of energy, without consciousness, that might be the "creator" of bodies around universe. A field that probably might exist in an other dimension than our own. I don't believe, IF he exists, God is not someone who listens to prayers and such.
I don't believe, again IF he exists, God has a personality of anykind.

I've said this before, but I think religon is a missinterpretation of information about how to live on a higher level of spiritually thinking.

And in my opinion spirituality is not something only for religon. I think spirituality was among us long before religon.

Anyway, this is my 2 cents. I promise to give all my love to God for the rest of my life if he manage to get down here, shake my hand and make me a pizza out of thin air. Until then, I will stick to my believings in God being a force field in another dimension that's surround us.

Hope I don't offend anyone with this, cause that is not the purpose.

Originally posted by Akezzon

I have a very hard time believing in someone that never have shown himself in anyway, but only through hearing about him through others.

And then you may say: Well , he make wonders everyday, havn't you notice?

My answer would be: No, not really.
All I see is people talking about it.
I hear stories about God saving them from car crashes and stuff like that, yet I wonder....where is he/she/it when thousands of human beings being killed in war? When thousands of people get killed because some morons felt like flying some planes into some buildings?

Where were he then?
I guess he was busy making a plant somewhere in the universe.
If he is so allmighty as some claim it would be more than easy for God to interfear and stop such things as well.

i never read it all either and when you said where was he during 9/11 well maybe some things have to happen but it was a horrendous event and i wih it never happened but maybe it was meant to happen part of a plan if you will i mean if it never happened you wouldnt have a point there either but i firmly believe all things happen for a reason.

Yeah I could understand that. It's just.
Is that the ideology of a God? ( I know he works in strange ways )

But if I understood you right, if it was ment to happen, then it means God made them kill all these people....or?

So again, this is only one more thing why I doubt and why I should believe in someone or something that uses death as a tool for a bigger plan.

Me and religon just doesn't go hand in hand. =)

A strong belief in God can be consciousness altering. Once someone accepts the divine presence into their heart they receive the reward chemicals dopamine and anandamide and DHT. These provide the uplifting feeling and cause the person to have a religious experience. It is very real for them and there is some connection made with the higher realm that sticks with you through life. You can not convince a person who has had these experiences that it did not happen so do not try. For them God exists and they want everyone to have this joy in their life.

I have had several what I would call mystical and religious experiences in my life. They were very consciousness altering. I do not proselytize though as I feel that if you are not a seeker there is no point in trying to convince you of anything and I do not feel it will help. Pearls before swine as they say.

I don't doubt for one second that others have experienced stuff like you say. I havn't though. And it can, again as you say, have it's roots in that I am not seeking it out.

However, I am very aware of spirituality and do seek it, I just don't live my life under influence of religon I guess since I don't believe spirituality and religon don't necessary have to belong together.

But who knows in the future. Maybe some event might alter my perception about this matter.

Originally posted by Akezzon
Yeah I could understand that. It's just.
Is that the ideology of a God? ( I know he works in strange ways )

But if I understood you right, if it was ment to happen, then it means God made them kill all these people....or?

So again, this is only one more thing why I doubt and why I should believe in someone or something that uses death as a tool for a bigger plan.

Me and religon just doesn't go hand in hand. =)

Good point but in my believe system all those people who died on that day are up in heaven right now.

reply to post by Akezzon


Thery can belong together my believe system is slightly diferent to most christians i try and believe the miracles that happened in a scientific or natural way and i suppose i believe in what the da vinci code says in that Jesus was married with children i 100% believe that.

what im trying to say is that you can still believe in God in a scienific or natural way i mean anything is possible right.

saint thomas aquinnas doubted the existence of god WHILE HE WAS A SAINT just to logically prove that he does exist. and it did very well too. you should check him out.

reply to post by billyjoinedat2k8


Mmm...in "heaven" the might be, but for what cost?

But I hear you, and understand your point. =)

And to answer your next post. Ofcourse they belong together, what I am saying is that I don't believe religon has exclusive right to spirituality since I believe spirituality and spirits was here long before religon.

I think maybe spirituality might be the mother of all religons. This doesn't necessarily means that spirituality has to do with any god. But that mankind developed religon with spirituality as a point of reference and as a base of their believes.

So ofc they belong, but not exclusivlly from my point of view.