The BIG FAT Ufo hype !

Ok, there is Ufo's and Ufo's. This topic is about those related to extraterrestial life.

Allthough I certainly do believe in extraterestial life, I think the subject is massivelly overhyped in some areas which blurs peoples view on what are facts and what is fiction.

For example, I live in Holland, where people are quite down to earth and Ufo's are not really a topic. As a result, sightings are very very rare. This doen't mean that we don't believe it is possible..

For some it is hard to accept, but when you seperate facts from fiction not much is left.

Fiction; there is life besides ours in the Universe
Fact: so far we have NO evidense at all, no signal, no nothing
Conclusion; intelligent live is, allthough theoratically possible, very rare in the Universe

Fiction; Extraterestial Ufo's are visiting our planet
Fact; How ? There is no technoligy we know of that allows living beings to travel great distances in space.
Conclusion; Wormholes, Stargates and Travelling faster then the speed of light are based on unproven theories. In reality they do NOT yet excist.

And maybe the biggest problem > time. We do not know the average lifetime of an intelligent lifeform.

We do now that our species walks this earth for about 200.000 years now and looking at the current situation I doubt we'll survive another 100.000. To express how relatively short this is compared to the Universe lets use a scale of 60 minutes to keep things simple. So assuming the Universe is 60 minutes old then we excist no longer as (3600*(200.000/13.700.000.000)) 0.053 sec. By the time someone picks up a signal the other may be long gone.

So for a disclosure, not only two species need to excist, find eachother and have the technoligy to communicate, it all needs to happen in no longer then a blink of an eye. And for you to witness one, all this has to happen in your lifetime !

So my conclusion; Yes, I do think intelligent lifeforms meet, but the odds are very small. If we will see one in our livetimes we may consider ourselves extremely lucky !

And still people believe we are being visited by extraterrestial life daily..



[edit on 13-8-2008 by Just-Think]

Why is it that most people think that just because we have yet to discover quick methods of space travel, other lifeforms do not have such technology?

For example, just because we have electricity, doesn't mean they MUST have electricity.

They have technology that we don't have and vice versa, so just because we can't travel to faraway galaxies, it doesn't mean that they don't have the means to do so.

after reading your post i couldnt help but remind myself of the rendalsham forest case. A military officer reported being next to a black triangular craft in the woods for about 45 minutes ,and then it took off through the trees. of course the events to this night are far more discriptive than i can put into words, your post seems like an elequently written attempt at deductive reasoning but its hard to speak in absolutes about this topic when there are very accomplished individuals who are sticking to their stories some 30+ years later.



[edit on 8/13/2008 by LordThumbs]

It's not all that unlikely. The technologies you describes are just things WE can't do, it's not that they're impossible or that we won't ever be able to do them, it's just that we don't that the energy capacity to perform such things.

An advanced civilisation easily could though, so all you need is to assume that somewhere in the universe there is at least ONE other advanced civilisation and suddenly it's not too hard to believe they would explore the universe and find races such as ourselves.

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence remember, just because we can't see alien worlds in our immediate vicinity hardly constitutes saying there must be no other life in the whole universe.

Originally posted by Just-Think
Fiction; there is life besides ours in the Universe

And this is fiction because...?

Fact: so far we have NO evidense at all, no signal, no nothing

Given that the bands of search are limited (and VERY limited, I might add), we can say that within those bands there is nothing. Also, perhaps there's LOTS of evidence, only it was gotten and is held by those that are NOT releasing the information. So claiming this as "fact" rather than conjecture is a bit presumptuous.

Conclusion; intelligent live is, allthough theoratically possible, very rare in the Universe

Or not.

Fiction; Extraterestial Ufo's are visiting our planet

Again... Why does this qualify necessarily as fiction?

Fact; How ? There is no technoligy we know of that allows living beings to travel great distances in space.

And we have all the answers to life, the universe and everything, do we? If I could tell you how, I would be rich for figuring out something we don't know yet. This is a flawed assumption.

Conclusion; Wormholes, Stargates and Travelling faster then the speed of light are based on unproven theories. In reality they do NOT yet excist.

Ah, and you know this because...? What do you think is being done with the black budget?

And maybe the biggest problem > time. We do not know the average lifetime of an intelligent lifeform.

True. So you are implying that because we don't know...that it cannot be? Am I grasping your message correctly here?

We do now that our species walks this earth for about 200.000 years now and looking at the current situation I doubt we'll survive another 100.000. To express how relatively short this is compared to the Universe lets use a scale of 60 minutes to keep things simple. So assuming the Universe is 60 minutes old then we excist no longer as (3600*(200.000/13.700.000.000)) 0.053 sec. By the time someone picks up a signal the other may be long gone.

This is presuming no non-local effects - which have been shown to exist - so the conclusion is likely fallacious.

So for a disclosure, not only two species need to excist, find eachother and have the technoligy to communicate, it all needs to happen in no longer then a blink of an eye. And for you to witness one, all this has to happen in your lifetime !

And what if one species genetically created another? Had ongoing ties to the other? You are making some incredible assumptions here.

So my conclusion; Yes, I do think intelligent lifeforms meet, but the odds are very small. If we will see one in our livetimes we may consider ourselves extremely lucky !

Or... They are here, have been for hundreds of thousands of years, and control us from behind the scenes...

Or... They are here and have merely been watching us...

Or... (The list can go on and on.)

And still people believe we are being visited by extraterrestial life daily..

They see aerial events that conventional science cannot explain... They see pictures. They get abducted. And so on.

Plenty of people have evidence that satisfies themselves, if not others. Gee, I wonder why they think there are aliens visiting.

Originally posted by LordThumbs
your post seems like an elequently written attempt at deductive reasoning but its hard to speak in absolutes about this topic when there are very accomplished individuals who are sticking to their stories some 30+ years later.

[edit on 8/13/2008 by LordThumbs]

I'm not saying it is impossible that there will, or has been contact. What I'm trying to point out is that due the massive Ufo hype at the moment, people believe that it is almost normal to be visited and that it happens all the time, which in my eyes is very unlikely..

Conclusion; intelligent live is, allthough theoratically possible, very rare in the Universe

Fact: We know relatively nothing about the universe outside our little planet. There could be a solar system relatively close that has multiple inhabited worlds. There could also be microbial life in our solar system. We won't know until we have visited all the regions.

Fact: Panspermia is a widespread theory about how life developed here on earth and to this date, all we have are theories so you cant completely rule that one out. If so, you cannot rule out microbial life on every semi hospitable planet, possibly leading to intelligent life on more hospitable planets.

Fiction; Extraterestial Ufo's are visiting our planet

Im not saying that they are but how do you know they are not?

There is such a gap (professional, social, distance wise) between you and the people that might know this, so why would they tell you.

If et life was visiting earth, Im sure they would be intelligent enough to seek out our leaders to converse with.. not just your average Joe.
So if that was the case, the people that are in the know might keep it quiet for profitable, nationalistic or aggressive purposes or just plain old fear of public chaos.

Originally posted by Dermo
If et life was visiting earth, Im sure they would be intelligent enough to seek out our leaders to converse with.. not just your average Joe.
So if that was the case, the people that are in the know might keep it quiet for profitable, nationalistic or aggressive purposes or just plain old fear of public chaos.

Or... They are smart enough to know that our "leaders" are corrupt, and would do something to communicate with ALL average Joes...

What might they choose that would be cryptic enough to be left unhidden, big enough that it would be hard to hide, visible to all, un"jammable" (as in jamming radio signals)...

How about messages created in...say...crops?

And what if there are already aliens here now, controlling from behind the scenes, and other aliens that DO want to speak to ALL the average Joes are communicating in our crops?

What if...there is a war going on between these groups?

Nothing we know precludes any of what I offer here.

For some it is hard to accept, but when you seperate facts from fiction not much is left.

I agree. Most UFO sightings can be explained. However, there's still a small percentage which cannot be explained, and that's all we need. One genuine UFO sighting is still a genuine UFO sighting.

Conclusion; intelligent live is, allthough theoratically possible, very rare in the Universe

What makes you think that intelligent life is "very rare in the Universe"? Sure, it hasn't officially contacted us yet, but our planet is only a speck of dust compared to everything else out there.

Conclusion: your statement is no better than the one you attempted to debunk.

Fact; How ? There is no technoligy we know of that allows living beings to travel great distances in space.

What difference does it make if we know about it or not? Come on.
Who knows what is out there?

We do now that our species walks this earth for about 200.000 years now and looking at the current situation I doubt we'll survive another 100.000. To express how relatively short this is compared to the Universe lets use a scale of 60 minutes to keep things simple. So assuming the Universe is 60 minutes old then we excist no longer as (3600*(200.000/13.700.000.000)) 0.053 sec. By the time someone picks up a signal the other may be long gone.

Speculation again. Yes, our lifetime may be short in comparison to that of another civilization's but there's an equal chance it may not be - we have absolutely nothing to suggest either way.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by JH80]

[edit on 13-8-2008 by JH80]

What this post excellently demonstrates is that belief systems are easily reinforced, regardless of their perspective.

What is much harder to do is to separate belief-orientation from systematically obtained data. Something neither the 'crazies in California' nor the 'calm and down to earth people' in Holland are any better at than any other group of people. True experiments have to be performed with 'blinds' because this separation is nearly impossible for the human psyche.

And yet, so much of the world feels so grounded, so in touch with 'reality', without even being aware of that failing.