Its time to stand as one Partisan politics and the rape of America

There is alot of people in the us and abroad who are leftwing and alot who are rightwing. We have basicaly waged a verbal war with each other for decades... This bickering and devisive nature of our political system has led to alot of anti-american rhetoric from not only outsiders but right here at home aswell... members of congress call our president a war monger and war criminal.... while im not going to refute these statements (thats adifferent thread this is just a ready example) i will point out that this is highly detrimental to our country. American polititions are raping the american people they swore to serve. I find it shere madness that people will follow blindly either of these political parties and yet have the gall to spew the rhetoric put forward by either political party without first knowing who is saying what and why. Heres the deal folks we all seem to want to choose sides in the political sphere when infact doing so is detrimental to your desicion making ability (i myself am guilty also). We follow these political parties and the fact of the matter is that we are infact following the most public of these figures as they get the most attention from the MSM. A fact that should piss off every american is that almost every bill in congress is only voted on by a fraction and usualy a small fraction of legislators.... We vote these people into office and never really know what they vote for or against or if they voted at all... If you take the time to look all congressional voting records are public and i assure you they would make you sick... I say its time to end the devisive rhetoric and reform our government. it is by the people and we must set aside our personal agendas and demand action be taken. I call on all of you to help me in demanding that voting on issues in the senate and house be mandatory. A handful of delegates often deside the fate of a bill. It is my humble opinion that if we fill your wallet you better do your damn job. Check voting records and make sure who you vote for is actually doing there job. Watch out for wasteful earmarks and demand that congress end pork barrel spending. Liberals and conservatives alike are being duped and takin advantage of by these people who fall so far to the right or left that we are lucky we arent communists or fascist. In truth we are an aristocracy where extremest from both sides of the isle dominate the political atmosphere and this must stop we gave the few the right to lead the many now we must take action and demand that they keep our interests at the for ground. Stop empowereing these people and join me in the "Centrist Movement" its time we demand that our legislators drop personal agendas and do as the people will. Please remember we put these people in power and it is our duty to see that they act accordingly. Id like to close by quoting verbatem the declaraton on which our country is founded and please keep in mind that i implore you all both the left and the right to take back our country and return it to the hands of the people

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

p.s. please do not spew partisan rhetoric here that is not what this thread was meant to be it was meant to dissolve party lines if only for a moment to reach an ends that we as a people must demand

please flag this thread so it will get the attention i believe it deserves



[edit on 9-8-2008 by constantwonder]

I have little to contribute, because I am in agreement with your proposition. The partisan noise pollution we are experiencing can be quite deafening at times.

I suspect that some might speculate the Republican-Democrat strategy is actually design to foment this inner conflict, to satisfy our need to compete vicariously, while denying us the fruits of our 'labor.' Others may see it otherwise. My opinion gravitates much closer to the former than the latter.

rock on i have to agree i claim no put screw all that it's all about who is gonna do the job right

CW, I would say to the above that although you are on the right track the problem goes far deeper than you can imagine, in fact more than most people can imagine.

All I will say is that there are those with an agenda who own Goverments, even countries and it is those who need to be dealt with to bring about change for the betterment of all.

The parasites who run the show are experts in what they do, changing a Goverment, its leader or any of its parts dose not change them or their agenda I'm afraid.

But you are right one has to make a start but you will need help and lots of it. You are up against something that is so entrenced and all powerful that it would takes ones entire life just to scratch the surface of the problem.

But we are making headway, its a snails pace but at least its in the right direction. The first major task is to switch peoples brains from the off position to the on position, then we will make real progress.

I'm going to stick my neck out here.I just got accused of trying to derail a thread so go ahead and let me have both barrels if you feel that way to.I see
a much different problem than you do however and the best way I can explain it is to give you this link.

www.usavsus.info...

The bickering is nothing more than keeping your eye elsewhere.There is no two party system.Follow the link and it explains all.It even has all the documents you need to know it's fact and not fiction.

reply to post by pooty


Pooty:

Thanks for the link. Good stuff! Lots' to consider, hopefully many will visit.

Originally posted by pooty
I'm going to stick my neck out here.I just got accused of trying to derail a thread so go ahead and let me have both barrels if you feel that way to.I see
a much different problem than you do however and the best way I can explain it is to give you this link.

www.usavsus.info...

The bickering is nothing more than keeping your eye elsewhere.There is no two party system.Follow the link and it explains all.It even has all the documents you need to know it's fact and not fiction.

thats just the problem both sides are (wether they are controlled by one group or not) equally guilty in this a complete fresh start is in order. MM thanks for the thoughtful encouragement.... How can we all be louder what can we do to turn peoples switches from off to on? All i can think of is that adding more voices to the chorus... we need to gather like minds and really attack this problem... kind of like a "pay it forward" type approach i hope you know that story ...... anyways any thoughts on how to make our voices louder and get people motivated towards change please share them.... i understand the problem goes deeper than any of us can phathom... but a single twig is easily broken a bundle can be unbreakable... id really like to see something come of this is there anyway we could devise a strategy for getting information to more people beyond ATS and the other bloggospheres out there?

Sorry, double post...my bad...

[edit on 10-8-2008 by silent thunder]

I can't stand 99% of Interent "political" debates because they are just people condcuting tiresome little punch-and-judy "left versus right" partisan sniping. Blah blah blah Obama this, McCain that...blah blah hippies versus rednecks...all the while the wool gets pulled deeper and deeper over everyone's eyes and causing otherwise-motivated people to spend time in useless, outmoded battles.

WAKE UP AMERICA! It doesn't matter whether the puppet on the left of the puppet on the right wins...out problems are far uglier and deeper and until we look at them squarely they will get worse and worse. Stop wasting time with boring ideological straightjackets and START THINKING FOR YOURSELF!!!!

Both "left" and "right" are outmoded, 20th-century concepts...we need to stop shoehoring our current struggles into these irrelevant categories. The world has moved on but so many fail to have grasped this...

Originally posted by silent thunder
I can't stand 99% of Interent "political" debates because they are just people condcuting tiresome little punch-and-judy "left versus right" partisan sniping. Blah blah blah Obama this, McCain that...blah blah hippies versus rednecks...all the while the wool gets pulled deeper and deeper over everyone's eyes and causing otherwise-motivated people to spend time in useless, outmoded battles.

WAKE UP AMERICA! It doesn't matter whether the puppet on the left of the puppet on the right wins...out problems are far uglier and deeper and until we look at them squarely they will get worse and worse. Stop wasting time with boring ideological straightjackets and START THINKING FOR YOURSELF!!!!

Both "left" and "right" are outmoded, 20th-century concepts...we need to stop shoehoring our current struggles into these irrelevant categories. The world has moved on but so many fail to have grasped this...

think for ourselves hmmm why do you seem so scathing this isnt a thread opened for debate its to try and find the sources of the real problems and find a way to intellegantly fight back... At least we want to do something instead of a belligerant you blind wake up post why dont you contribute something useful to the discussion anyone can point fingures and say your argument is irrelevant or what not this thread was meant for meaningful discussion on how to fix the problem

Originally posted by constantwonder
think for ourselves hmmm why do you seem so scathing this isnt a thread opened for debate its to try and find the sources of the real problems and find a way to intellegantly fight back... At least we want to do something instead of a belligerant you blind wake up post why dont you contribute something useful to the discussion anyone can point fingures and say your argument is irrelevant or what not this thread was meant for meaningful discussion on how to fix the problem

Well, I guess I tend to approach problems from an "apophatic" rather than "cataphatic" perspective. That is to say, rather than functionally trying to define "the truth," I feel that work better by pointing out falsities and attimpting to strip away illusions. Both ways are equally valid in my opinion. My position is that if you remove delusion, the truth will shine free of its own accord. Many sculptors say they approach their art by "cutting away everything that doesn't look like a statue." I take that kind of approach.

In practical terms, what this means is that rather than asserting "this is true" or "you should do this," I tend to make statements like "such and such is not true" or "you shouldn't do that." Specifically with regards to partisanship, I try to point out the internal contradictions in party platforms. For example, both "pro-choice" and "pro-environment" are traditionally considered "leftist" positions, but there is no logical reason why a single individual would have to believe both. By the same token, there is no logical bind between "pro-Iraq war" and "pro-life," yet both are "conservative." By pointing out this, I hope people would see that ideological postions are not so internally consistant, and then they would begin to question each issue on its own terms, rather than running to their head to get a little "party playbook" that tells them what they "should" think. When you can convince people to do this, its enormously helpful in breaking down the partisan barriers.

However, if you feel such an approach is not appropriate for you thread here, then fine. I'll leave and I won't bother you any more.

CW, I find that when discussing such issues with most people their eyes start to glaze over because they are not interested or are scared of the real truth.

What I find that usually works is to mention a few topical items and then sit back and see what happens. Most people once their anger is triggered pour out their feelings of what really concerns them or bothers them.

Its at that point that I then add snipits of information and their reaction is amazing. You cannot believe how easily even so called well informed people react when given the real truth. To me thats the main way to deal with people, to shake them out of their ignorance comfort zone.

It not their fault as I said before people are fed a diet of crap food, lies, disinfo and deceit from the day they are born. Its breaking that program of dumbing down our senses that needs to be changed other wise very soon we will have ww3 and a massive Global slump that will make the depression look like a Sunday picknic.

I find that my own country is responsible for so much that has gone on and is going on. Many think the Empire is dead but its alive and kicking. We have our dirty fingers in so many pies that it beggars belief. The perps who are in control are pulling all the strings and ours as well and they are treading along a well trodden path just as they have for centuries.

reply to post by constantwonder

I have no idea how to even wake people up here.They don't want to hear it.
They're much more interested in what kind of handout thier going to get from Obama or McCain.My own daughter doesn't want to hear it.She's got her two cars and tv in every room and until something happens to that she's content.
Funny she was in the army so she swore an oath to the constitution and I never got in so I've never sworn an oath yet I'm the one who's trying to save the constitution.Quite frankly I have about decided to give up on it.I've tried and tried and it's like trying to poke a finger through a steel plate all I get is frustrated.I don't believe it will be long until the dollar crashs.Kinda hard to say whether that will bring in the NAU or a dictator.My plan now is pretty much wait and see.My name is pretty high up on the list as I delievered petitions to my congressman.Kind of jerks my chain to think they may come and haul me off while the heard stands around chewing it's cud.
The only idea I have left is to attack thier patriotism soldiers and all since thier fighting for the crown and it's bankers.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

silentthunder please dont leave your rehash of what you meant cleared alot up and we need verying opinions to build from this is really good stuff guys and i appreciate all your input i was afraid this like so many other threads would just fall through the cracks.... I would like to ask each of you who are still following this to point it out to others and help "recruit" people to inject some meaningful thoughts..... we can do this guys we can start something here I can feel it and amazingly just asking people to be polite and thoughtful seems to help i know the trolls will eventually flame us but we cannot must not be detured we can not rely on things to just happen lets make them happen just hearing from the few of you has givin me incredible hope the relevance of my original post may not be the cornerstone of discussion but a place to start non the less. Anyone got an idea of how we can sort of get people gravitating towards this discussion and build upon it.... i really really believe we can make somethings happen some real forward positive progress