Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

They aren't there for any kind of geographical, military or political gain, it's a tiny little #hole town they could have taken many times over if they wanted it , they don't .. they are keeping the peace.. in a neighborhood of thieves and crooks .

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Well, it certainly would be an interesting strategy for Russia to enter for ostensibly good reasons, start to leave, instead return with a greater number of troops and advance further each time, and then rinse and repeat - although the wisdom of such a slow strategy when a) they could do so far more rapidly given Georgia's relative impotence (no offense to Georgia) compared to Russia at this point and b) the increasing likelihood that large numbers of U.S. military personnel will soon arrive as part of the aid mission, is questionable at best.

I personally doubt that such a strategy on Russia's part is what's happening, but I do not discount this (or any other) possibility. As has been the case throughout this, we have too little information, too many contradictions, and too many rumors.

[edit on 8/14/2008 by AceWombat04]

A good strategist would do what his enemy is least expecting. And so far all I can say is that the Russians have been VERY unpredictable. So strategy wise I would say they are good!

It would be interesting if someone (with a lot of patience ) could make a statistic about who lied about what and when.

It would be a good indication in the future about who is more trustworthy of all the intervening parties, Georgia, Russia, US and the various representatives from the media.

It would also help us to see if we could find a defining line in the actions of the different parties, the talk during the events may have been only to spread confusion, a reorganisation of the statements and actions would be very interesting.

Unfortunately, as I have not followed this situation all the time, I do not have a real knowledge of all the communications and media reports, that is why I am leaving this work for someone else, at the moment I have the time to do it.

According to a shipping agent in Poti, Russian peacekeepers (which he distinguishes from regular army by their uniforms apparently) have entered Poti with tanks, but are heading toward an old military base now - much as Russian forces did after passing through Gori yesterday.

MOSCOW, Aug 14 (Reuters) - Russian tanks rolled into the Georgian port town of Poti on Thursday, a shipping agent in Poti said by telephone.

"Just a few minutes ago they (Russians) entered Poti in tanks," the shipping agent, Nikoloz Gogoli, said by telephone. "Some of the guys have blue signs, badges, which means they should be peacekeepers."

The agent said the tanks did not enter the port and were moving toward an old military base.

www.alertnet.org...

Originally posted by asen_y2k

A good strategist would do what his enemy is least expecting. And so far all I can say is that the Russians have been VERY unpredictable. So strategy wise I would say they are good!

I'll certainly give you that much.

[edit on 8/14/2008 by AceWombat04]

reply to post by -Rugged Shark-


Sky's Alex Rossi (stationed just on the outskirts of Gori) reported before that the Russian's have started shelling some positions. It's all very intriguing. And confusing.

I still remember what the Russian general said yesterday on camera: 'We're going to teach Saakashvili a lesson.'

[edit on 14-8-2008 by chips]

I reckon the Russians have their hands full with all these warring caucasus factions just itching to rip each others throats out, they know what is needed to keep them apart .. the west doesn't , all they see is .. 'your in Gori!! .. breaking ceasefire times! .. nooo nooo .

Keep in mind that the source on this is the Georgian Interior Ministry, which has been wrong before twice so far during the conflict - however if true, it would substantiate what the shipping agent reportedly said (see above posts) in Poti.

Russian troops have been seen entering the Georgian port town of Poti and building up their numbers in Gori despite a shaky ceasefire, according to Georgia's foreign ministry.

Earlier, the ministry reported that Russian armed forces were pulling out from Gori, a Georgian city that has been hit by shelling and looting.

Sky News

This is what I can conclude:

Russians have been lying a lot lately(strategically). They said that fighting is over and they would retreat back, they said there were no tanks in Gori while 60-70 tanks rolled in, they said they would return back but they not only still there but increasing their number. Heck they even signed the ceasefire!

Now the question is could we beleive the Russians when they said that they will not go to Tbilisi?????
The general said, that they will teach Saakashvilli a lesson, Russian soldiers in Gori said they would drive all the wa to Tbilisi and also said that they were coming for Saakasvilli.

Lets see:
They said they would retreat from Gori but infact they ARE INCREASING TROOP NUMBERS THERE.
They said they would not go to Tbilisi...
Troops and generals saying they were goin in

Well I guess you know what I am thinking!

[edit on 14/8/08 by asen_y2k]

One thing I thought while reading all the posts about how Russians have not "evolved" since the fall of the Berlin wall is that that event happened 19 years ago, people who were just 5 years old at the time now are 24, they grow up in a new environment, with the influence of the old but in a new world.

I know that this happens because it was the same in Portugal after the Carnation Revolution, people who grew up after did not really know how things were before because people do not like to talk about it, and the ones who like are the few who liked how it was (a small minority).

Also, during this time, Russian people have been moving through Europe, many Russians live here in Almada, for example, and I think it is natural that the news they send back home help people understand how things are here.

So, considering that the Russians are still attached to the old mentality may be a mistake when trying to understand the way they think today.

Sorry for the off-topic.

Russians reentering Gori - 5:29AM Aug 14, 2008

August 14, 2008, 5:29AM EST
Georgian Daily

According to Rustavi2TV reporters Russian tanks are reentering Gori district. Georgian Internal Affairs troops don't control the situation, they pulled out to prevent bloodshed.

Russians are demanding to give them their cars while shooting by macine guns in the air.

Three personal cars of Georgian citizens have been taken away by the Russian occupation army.

source

reply to post by Hellmutt


That would be teaching Saakashvili a lesson, I think.

And that is what I think were the Russian's intentions, break him from within is much more effective.

Troops in standoff in Georgia town

The planned handover of the strategically important town of Gori, about 30km from the breakaway region of South Ossetia, appears to have broken down.

Talks between Russian and Georgian military commanders ended when Russian-backed South Ossetian forces demanded that they be allowed to police the town, sources told Al Jazeera.

source

Originally posted by Hellmutt
Saakashvili is not popular in Georgia right now. His own people are now calling for him to resign. They say that Saakashvili is the one responsible for the current war situation. They say he is an idiot and should resign. If he is forced to resign, he will be tried as a war criminal, and he knows it. I bet he is willing to go very far to prevent that from happening. Why is such "respectable" people supporting a war criminal? What will they say if he is tried and found guilty of mass murder of civilians? "Err, we didn't know...". Yeah right...

A coup, a civil war would be the best thing that could happen for Georgia. That'll prevent external forces that do not have true interest in the region apart from their geopolitical motives being able to intervene .

reply to post by -Rugged Shark-


Doesn't this behavior sound more like what the irregular militia from South Ossetia were doing yesterday? Then again, various sources reported them as being in tandem with the Russian army. So who knows anymore? The ability to follow events on the ground via the media has been completely compromised.

If I had any hair on my head (shaved it a month ago) I'd be pulling it out in frustration due to the total confusion surrounding this conflict. Perhaps it is the aim of one or both sides to create this kind of media "fog of war?"

EDIT:

Originally posted by -Rugged Shark-
Troops in standoff in Georgia town

The planned handover of the strategically important town of Gori, about 30km from the breakaway region of South Ossetia, appears to have broken down.

Talks between Russian and Georgian military commanders ended when Russian-backed South Ossetian forces demanded that they be allowed to police the town, sources told Al Jazeera.

source

And this, if true, would seem to suggest that it is indeed the militia.

[edit on 8/14/2008 by AceWombat04]

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil


If that would happen, the situation would dramaticly turn to the worst. Atleast now you still have a government in Georgia. A democratic elected government. You don't want to see Georgia into a bananarepublic.

AP NewsAlert
22 minutes ago

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Explosions heard near Georgian city of Gori as Russian troop withdrawal appears to collapse

reply to post by -Rugged Shark-


Democratic .. yes 97% . US puppet. They overdid it on the vote count . If you need to cheat .. make it like 60%

Russia strongly backs separatist positions and decisions

MOSCOW, Aug 14 (Reuters) - Russia will support the position of Georgia's separatist South Ossetia and Abkhazia regions in talks on their future status, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was quoted as saying on Thursday.

The Kremlin leader met the two rebel leaders at the Kremlin to sign a six-point plan to end hostilities brokered this week by France, agencies reported.

"Please be aware that Russia's position is unchanged. We will support any decisions taken by the peoples of South Ossetia and Abkhazia...and not only do we support it but we will guarantee them both in the Caucasus and throughout the world," Medvedev was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.

www.alertnet.org...

Hopefully this doesn't include separatist decisions to push further into Georgia. I'm totally lost as to what's happening due to all the contradictions from both sides.

[edit on 8/14/2008 by AceWombat04]

[edit on 8/14/2008 by AceWombat04]

I don't think of Georgia as being a puppet of the US. I see Georgia as a former Sovjet Republic that became independent, just like the Baltic States, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Serbia etc etc.

Just that those states don't want to do what Rusia wants them to do, it doesn't automaticly make them puppets of the US.