An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

Originally posted by Clearskies

The fact that airlines like Evergreen aviations sell planes for 'weather modification' should wake people up to the fact that spraying anything on an unknowing population is going on!

Very good point. So this means the equipment exists.

It's been PROVEN that spraying ecoli and other stuff has been done in America and Britain! Chemical testing
Check the links, please.
It's infuriating that it's being done and no one has PROVEN it, yet...

Another good link. Not proof, but definitely circumstantial evidence should make the strongest skeptic think twice.

Isn't Evergreen Aviation a CIA company?

Yep, a Google search shows they replaced Air America:

www.sourcewatch.org...

www.lewrockwell.com...

Here's another thread that is worth looking at.
It's getting MORE rational public attention.

Mr. Fleece......

If I was a evil black ops kinda guy I would find it much easier to poison the population with drinking water and food.

Dumping my evil concoction at altitudes of +30,000 feet with little or no chance of reaching the lungs of my targets would seem an expensive and small return on my efforts.

Let's talk floridation... now that's something.

Originally posted by wrathchild
Mr. Fleece......

If I was a evil black ops kinda guy I would find it much easier to poison the population with drinking water and food.

Dumping my evil concoction at altitudes of +30,000 feet with little or no chance of reaching the lungs of my targets would seem an expensive and small return on my efforts.

Let's talk floridation... now that's something.

Like my father-in-law liked to say:

"That's neither here nor there."

Anyway, I haven't seen any debunker here say anything about the possibility of such equipment existing. I just see the purpose of the speculated dispersal jets being challenged.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
LOL -- those aren't "persistent contrails," that's for sure! I don't care what anyone says,

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Ignoring any post from someone who calls himself "wrathchild"

I think these two statements show I a lot about some. Open minded? don't think so.

"I know everything and will not concider other views and will ignore facts that i don't like."

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Matrix1111

 

Marrs wrote that?

I wonder how he thinks aluminum and barium would counteract brucellosis?

I don't know. That's way over my head, even if I just stayed overnight at a Holiday Inn Express.

But here's some expert making connections to barium:

www.bariumblues.com...

Oh, I forgot this:

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 8/6/2008 by Matrix1111]

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by ghofer

AN AIRLINE MANAGER'S STATEMENT

Project Cloverleaf

Posted by C.E. Carnicom on behalf of the author May 22 2000

www.carnicom.com...

Mr. Carnicom:

About twenty employees in our office were briefed along with me by two officials from some government agency. They didn't tell us which one. They told us that the government was going to pay our airline, along with others, to release special chemicals from commercial aircraft.
Thank you.

I can't understand how an airliner would release the chemicals in flight. If there were some external spaying equipment, it would surely be obvious. If they mix it into the jet fuel, then why bother telling the airline staff about it? And if, as some claim, biological agents are being put into jet fuel, I can't see how they'd survive in that stuff or being burned in the engine. Sounds pretty suspect to me.

With that said, it seems that the U.S. does like to experiment with bio-weapons on it's citizens. I have another thread here that I started with info from the Baltimore Chronicle:
Bio-weapons tests on U.S. civilians


[edit on 6-8-2008 by ghofer]

Here at ATS we have been hammered by outrageous stories from posters just interested in trolling.

Nobody in the threads give them any credibility, accusing them of making up fiction in order to receive attention.

Apparently this anonymous airline employee get 100% benefit of the doubt

If you told me that the gov was dosing twinkies I'd probably think plausible.

This is the equivalent of digging a hole in the middle of the Sahara desert and hoping that a penguin would fall in it.

Or you could go to the antarctic with a 12 gauge and shoot one easily.

The government is doing just fine poisoning our minds through the media and entertainment, poisoning our bodies through over-prescribing narcotics and injecting our foods with anti-biotics and hormones.

agent frank... how can we control the population?
agent bob.... let's directly poison food and water, remove human rights, and brainwash the children.
agent frank.... nahhh, how about we spray chemicals into the atmosphere.
agent bob.... ok, like into school and office ventilation systems?
agent frank.... no how about high into the troposphere where everyone can see it as contrails and and its got to somehow fall to earth, even though there's a 400km/r jet stream and literally no chance of any of it making it to the ground.
agent bob.... sounds way cool dude!


[edit on 6-8-2008 by wrathchild]

Originally posted by wrathchild
Here at ATS we have been hammered by outrageous stories from posters just interested in trolling.

Nobody in the threads give them any credibility, accusing them of making up fiction in order to receive attention.

Apparently this anonymous airline employee get 100% benefit of the doubt

If you told me that the gov was dosing twinkies I'd probably think plausible.

Exactly right, yet when something plausible is brought up, you get accused of being in on the coverup or spreading disinfo.

I miss the days when you had to have decent proof of something before it could be considered plausible or even possible, and people didnt use youtube as a source ofinformation (and education in some cases)

Originally posted by ghofer
I can't understand how an airliner would release the chemicals in flight. If there were some external spaying equipment, it would surely be obvious. If they mix it into the jet fuel, then why bother telling the airline staff about it? And if, as some claim, biological agents are being put into jet fuel, I can't see how they'd survive in that stuff or being burned in the engine. Sounds pretty suspect to me.

Despite what some disinfo agents have said, nothing's ever been mixed into the fuel. Have you read this mechanic's claims?

...One day last month I was called out from our base to work on a plane for another airline. When I got the call the dispatcher did not know what the problem was. When I got to the plane I found out that the problem was in waste disposal system. There was nothing for me to do but to crawl in and fix the problem. When I got into the bay I realized that something was not right. There were more tanks, pumps, and pipes then should have been there. At first I assumed that the system had been changed. It had been 10 years since I had worked on one. As I tried to find the problem I quickly realized the extra piping and tanks were not connected to the waste disposal system. I had just discovered this when another mechanic from my company showed up. It was one of the mechanics who usually works on these systems. I happily turned the job over to him. As I was leaving I asked him about the extra equipment. He told me to "worry about my end of the plane and let him worry about his!"

The next day I was on the company computer to look up a wiring schematic. While I was there I decided to look up the extra equipment I had found. To my amazement the manuals did not show any of the extra equipment I had seen with my own eyes the day before. I even tied in to the manufacturer files and still found nothing. Now I was really determined to find out what that equipment did.

The next week we had three of our planes in our main hanger for periodic inspection. There are mechanics crawling all over a plane during these inspections. I had just finished my shift and I decided to have a look at the waste system on one of our planes. With all the mechanics around I figured that no one would notice an extra one on the plane. Sure enough, the plane I choose had the extra equipment!

I began to trace the system of pipes, pumps, and tanks. I found what appeared to be the control unit for the system. It was a standard looking avionics control box but it had no markings of any kind. I could trace the control wires from the box to the pumps and valves but there were no control circuits coming into the unit. The only wires coming into the unit was a power connection to the aircraft's main power bus.

The system had 1 large and 2 smaller tanks. It was hard to tell in the cramped compartment but it looked like the large tank could hold 50 gallons. The tanks were connected to a fill and drain valve that passed through the fuselage just behind the drain valve for the waste system. When I had a chance to look for this connection under the plane I found it cunningly hidden behind a panel under the panel used to access the waste drain.

I began to trace the piping from the pumps. These pipes lead to a network of small pipes that ended in the trailing edges of the wings and horizontal stabilizers. If you look closely at the wings of a large airplane you will see a set of wires, about the size of your finger, extending from the trailing edge of the wing surfaces. These are the static discharge wicks. They are used to dissipate the static electric charge that builds up on a plane in flight. I discovered that the pipes from this mystery system lead to every 1 out of 3 of these static discharge wicks. These wicks had been "hollowed out" to allow whatever flows through these pipes to be discharged through these fake wicks.

It was while I was on the wing that one of the managers spotted me. He ordered me out of the hanger telling me that my shift was over and I had not been authorized any overtime...

Originally posted by ghofer
With that said, it seems that the U.S. does like to experiment with bio-weapons on it's citizens. I have another thread here that I started with info from the Baltimore Chronicle:
Bio-weapons tests on U.S. civilians

You got that right. The U.S. has a long and sordid history of biological experimentation on it's citizens: www.apfn.org...

Here's a good one:

1945: "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by GoldenFleece]

Originally posted by mantic

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by Clearskies

 

Yes it is normal. All that is happening is that the air traffic in the USA is extremely heavy, so naturally you will have planes that criss cross each others paths and planes that sit in holding patterns at high altitude, waiting for their time to descend. I posted a link in the original post that shows the density of air travel in one hour, its a phenomenal amount

Could it be reasonable to assume that some of this traffic density is being created by these chem planes?

Yes it is very reasonable. However, if indeed the sky "loosing it's blueness" due to increased traffic, taking "chemtrails" out of the equation. Then would it be safe to assume that we are in deeper doo doo? What is the outcome, what is being done to reverse such trend?

Here are some interesting pictures of the phenomena from the site weatherwars. The proprietor has some interesting theory.

The arrowed location is at the intersection of three contrail lines. It just happens to be the point at which one of the contrails rolls over in an area of strong lateral shear artificially introduced into the sky. We would have never known about it without the chemtrails. With a grid like this you can tell they are hunting scalar activity.

A nice true color image from NASA looking at the back edge of a storm that is just clearing the western Great Lakes states. This is a very dry atmospheric environment in that the passing storm has cleared the area of available moisture for clouds formation plus the inherent stabilization, post storm, leads to very clear skies. So we have many thick contrails that are lasting in an environment that shouldn’t support their visible existence. Hence we have evidence of the contrail markers versus natural contrails. Abundant rippling over Michigan tells us that we have EM energies stimulating the atmosphere and thus the weather makers need to fly the contrails to measure this action and decide whether to employ counter measures as needed. A couple of arrows have been added to point out the thick spreading contrails laid down just along the back edge of this storm, and the interesting dissipation over central Lake Superior marked earlier by the fading three north/south contrails.

In need of more data… a second plane is flown in the vicinity to see if the scalar/gravatonic energy remains present to deform the second contrail.

I just know that something is going on, and I do not believe it is due to increased passenger and freight air traffic

[edit on 7-8-2008 by mantic]

[edit on 7-8-2008 by mantic]

Originally posted by Essan


But grids would be normal routes wouldn't they? People don't just fly in one direction, and a great many of the aircraft you see will not be going to local airports. As for them being white aircraft, is it coincidence that commercial airliners are generally white? Or that no-one has ever since the huge (100s of aircraft) fleets of non commercial aircraft that must otherwise exist?

From my eyes, something has changed up there.

Yes. A lot more planes.

My personal opinion is that anyone who takes the time out to look for them selves and use common sense will see something amiss.

Yes, A lot more planes.

If you don't like it, don't fly

(I've not been in the air since 1981 btw)

The following picture depicts the type of grid to which I refer and have seen with my own eyes. I seriously doubt these are normal traffic patterns.

Originally posted by mantic

A nice true color image from NASA looking at the back edge of a storm that is just clearing the western Great Lakes states. This is a very dry atmospheric environment in that the passing storm has cleared the area of available moisture for clouds formation plus the inherent stabilization, post storm, leads to very clear skies. So we have many thick contrails that are lasting in an environment that shouldn’t support their visible existence. Hence we have evidence of the contrail markers versus natural contrails. Abundant rippling over Michigan tells us that we have EM energies stimulating the atmosphere and thus the weather makers need to fly the contrails to measure this action and decide whether to employ counter measures as needed. A couple of arrows have been added to point out the thick spreading contrails laid down just along the back edge of this storm, and the interesting dissipation over central Lake Superior marked earlier by the fading three north/south contrails.

Where's the back edge of the storm? Whoever wrote that has no idea how to interpret satellite imagery, lol

I am actually stationed at one of the most storm prone areas of tropical Australia and being with the bureau of meteorology I obviously get first hand satellite imagery as it comes through. I have never seen storm clouds look like that before

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
The fact is, evidence that proves the existence of chemtrails is now overwhelming.

What evidence? I still see nothing to disprove the meteorological science and chemistry of it all.

Feel free to point out any error in this contrail physics model: (if you can)

www.carnicom.com...

I never realised Cliff Carnicon was an atmospheric scientist. How come he's had no papers on the subject published? I wonder if he's read these?

A New Formulation for the Critical Temperature for Contrail Formation

An Empirical Model to Predict Widespread Occurrence of Contrails

Numerical Simulations of Persistent Contrails

Calculations of Aircraft Contrail Formation Critical Temperatures

The Application of the Revised Algorithm for the Predition of the Formation of Exhaust Condensation Trails by Jet Aircraft

And I could go on

As for Carnicon's own reworking of atmospheric physics, i note he claims his model, predicting contrails to dissipate within 30 seconds due to the heat of solar radiation "... agree extremely well with the observed properties of contrails over their historical existence" - which very clearly is not the case since contrails have never been observed to behave in accordance with his model and have been observed to persist and spread into sheets of cirrus since the dawn of air travel.

He also comments: "If the dissipation of an observed contrail does not conform to the model above, and the corresponding physics and chemistry and math of same, then the logical conclusion that can be drawn is that the
material of emission is not likely to be water vapor. As mentioned earlier, the physics of cloud formation are an entirely separate process, and are
highly dependent upon temperature, relative humidity, aerosol type and the size of aerosol particles that are introduced." obviously omitting the possibility that his model might be wrong and of course, as one would expect, ignoring all scientific research into the subject which does not agree with his assertions.

It's possible his model is right, but even basic observation suggests otherwise. Normal contrails do not always dissipate rapidly. And claiming that is they don;t they cannot be normal contrails is circular reasoning and, besides, ignores historical observation - unless one assumes chemtrails have been around since the 1930s?

And let's see if we can find which members consistently provide empirical evidence

Post ad homs won't prove anything!

Originally posted by TruthTellist
I think it is time to review the 25 most common tactics used by ESSAN, OZWEATHERMAN and WEEDWACKER

I think its time to review the 1 tactic used by truthtellst

1. Label anyone that diagrees with chemtrails or argues against them as a disinfo agent while supplying no evidence to argue against theri theories



[edit on 7/8/2008 by OzWeatherman]

reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread378822/pg4#pid4758334]post by OzWeatherman (