Positive reinforcement online: a different perspective

It has been suggested in another thread that ATS and other online communities are using positive reinforcement as mind control. This is simply not the case.

Influence is NOT control.

If I hand you a biscuit every time you smile that does not mean you will smile to get biscuits. You might smile when you want a biscuit, you might even refuse a biscuit when you smile and you are offered a biscuit. If receiving biscuits makes you feel good about yourself you may choose to keep smiling all day long. But that does NOT mean you have been forced into smiling.

Points, stars, whatever, are a measure of something but that something is up to you. You may not care less about them.

If you determine your actions by them then YOU are controlling yourself. Saying you are controlled by little blue stars, flags and points is like a drug addict saying they are controlled by the drug itself to take it when in fact every time they take a drug they make a CHOICE.

You will actually find the reason why you are 'controlled' is because you want to be. There are things that limit people's lives but positive reinforcement is not one of them, it is a CHOICE.

So, everybody calm down. Oh, and btw, there‘s a virtual biscuit on its way to anyone who replies to this thread..

Were you afraid to post your thoughts in that thread?

It's Okay... I'd be interested to see any replies that come up here as well.

As for the other thread... IF YOU DARE ... can be found here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It will remain a suggestion as you so eloquently put it for now, but this is actually a project of mine... One that I intend to fully prove, or disprove with solid evidence.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
Were you afraid to post your thoughts in that thread?

It's Okay... I'd be interested to see any replies that come up here as well.

As for the other thread... IF YOU DARE ... can be found here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It will remain a suggestion as you so eloquently put it for now, but this is actually a project of mine... One that I intend to fully prove, or disprove with solid evidence.

"IF YOU DARE".? Is that a joke?

Your thread's topic is your 'project' into the fact that you believe your 'theory' to be true. My thread is about the fact that Positive Reinforcement is not MIND CONTROL, and raises the issue of WHY it is all about choice. If I were to post that in your thread it would have been off topic in your thread. Do you understand?

I find your attitude hilarious, either you are approaching this as a joke or you really don't understand the basic psychology of positive reinforcement.

Btw, here’s your virtual biscuit. Biscuit

You say this is a 'project' of your yours that you intend to prove or disprove but what exactly is YOUR Hypothesis? As the theory of positive reinforcement has already been widely proven that is not YOUR Hypothesis. You simply pointing out that it might work in an online setting is not a new Hypothesis but simply you suggesting it is being applied. Your assumption that positive reinforcement is mind control is blatantly false.

reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra


First of all I never said I believed anything to be true, nor do I disbelieve, in order to pursue a theory it requires some level of investigation, After exploring a wealth of information in the online persona thread, I became interested in other aspects of the "online community" and began looking into what exactly motivates members here, the positive reinforcements are part of that, but only. It is a project of sorts... At least I will be trying to prove my theories rather than just speculate on the 'possible'.

I can't get into this too deep right now, but I will, in time.

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
First of all I never said I believed anything to be true, nor do I disbelieve,

Well, there you are, that is where your problem begins, you don’t have any clear idea of what YOU THINK in the first place in regards to your 'project'. You have no clearly defined basis for any investigation to start with!

in order to pursue a theory it requires some level of investigation,

But first you actually have to have a theory to test, or investigate, and you do not have one.

After exploring a wealth of information in the online persona thread, I became interested in other aspects of the "online community" and began looking into what exactly motivates members here, the positive reinforcements are part of that,

So, what was it exactly about the psychology of identity that made you take the nonsensical leap to positive reinforcement? You suggested in your thread that positive reinforcement at ATS is MIND CONTROL of members here, it is not. Now you try and tone down your language to say that positive reinforcement motives people at ATS. You can’t investigate a ’theory’ when you change it to suit your later conclusions you know!

but only. It is a project of sorts... At least I will be trying to prove my theories rather than just speculate on the 'possible'.

What is you point with that remark? Also, you previously state that you do not have any opinion on your theories (which you are not even sure of in your own mind!) BUT, you are seeking to PROVE them. An unbiased investigation would not seek just to prove something. And speculation is essential to any investigation so you’ve got more problems if you dismiss any speculation.

I can't get into this too deep right now, but I will, in time.

You really do not know what you are doing with you so called 'investigation'. All you have done is posted on ATS creating an artificial situation using a fanfare of pseudo scientific language to bestow a greater significance on your ideas than they actually have. You have simply posted a few posts about some thoughts you have on the subject. It is NOT an 'investigation' of a theory. That would require criteria that you simply have not met. By your standards of rigorous enquiry everyone who posts something on ATS is starting an 'investigation' of a 'theory'.

And I notice you still have not stated what your Hypothesis is?

reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra


Okay you are right, you win, you obviously know so much more about all of this than I do and everyone else for that matter.

Do you actually believe you have the ability to get inside of my head and know all of these things about me?

Your ability to analyze me based on that post is astounding.

Everyone wants a quick answer, or quick conspiracy fix here, when you are dealing with a highly speculative subject that is not possible.... If you really are interested in more than argument for the sake of, then maybe one day we can 'talk'.

For now it seems as though your mind is made up, with that... Have a nice day! Pfffft.

reply to post by The_Alarmist2012

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
reply to post by UFOpsychiczebra

 

Okay you are right, you win, you obviously know so much more about all of this than I do and everyone else for that matter.

Why do you think that you represent 'everyone' with your ideas? And why are you so upset about nothing?

Do you actually believe you have the ability to get inside of my head and know all of these things about me?

Hang on a minute, where did all that come from? When did I say anything about what is inside your head? And what things have I claimed to know about you? I haven't stated anything about you personally at all so what are you talking about?

Your ability to analyze me based on that post is astounding.

Explain?

Everyone wants a quick answer, or quick conspiracy fix here,

By 'here' I presume you mean ATS. I disagree with your assumption that everyone at ATS is looking for a 'quick conspiracy fix' as you put it. There are a great number of ATS members who are seriously seeking answers to important questions. I guess you have a lower opinion of the average ATS member than I do.

If you really are interested in more than argument for the sake of, then maybe one day we can 'talk'.

For now it seems as though your mind is made up,

I have tried to engage you in a SERIOUS debate in this thread and you refuse to even state your hypothesis!

You wrongly accuse me of presuming to know your mind and then you have the audacity to suggest that you know what I think about this subject! LOL.

If you were the least bit serious about your so called investigation you would recognise my input to this subject for what it is, an opportunity for you to explore your theory at a serious level. Not just a thread with lots of 'comforting' agreement, which is what you are really looking for.

I challenge you to discuss this seriously in this thread. Or have you decided that maybe you had no real substance to your so called theory once it was put to the test by my argument?

And even if you refuse my challenge, can you at least answer the one question about your 'investigation‘ which you should obviously already know, what is your hypothesis?

Originally posted by UFOpsychiczebra
And even if you refuse my challenge, can you at least answer the one question about your 'investigation‘ which you should obviously already know, what is your hypothesis?

Let me be as honest as I can at this time with you, I will NOT reveal anything of that nature at this time, if I did I assure you that I would be shut down quickly, evidence is a must, without it I don't have a chance, and that evidence is hard to obtain here when members are reluctant, the staff make an overwhelming presence in a speculative discussion.

I will expose everything when the investigation is complete, unless I am prevented from doing so by being barred from the site, banned, or denied access. A true investigation here will be tough, if not nearly impossible, and if I give you an in depth hypothesis now I could be shut down.

I have already been told in private by a staff member "if you feel the need to experiment, do it elsewhere. We frankly don't have the time for this".

Discussion of speculative theories here is fine on just about everything, however when that speculative theory involves the site, it may be a problem?

I suppose we may find out, then again, maybe not.

If not, maybe then you should be asking 'them' why?

Oh come on, that is just plain silly.

You are creating a non-existent conspiracy centred around one thing - you.

You appear not to know what an hypothesis is as it would clearly not be necessary for you to finish your investigation to state what your hypothesis is.

You also clearly do not understand positive reinforcement.

As you stated in your thread that you believe ATS is using positive reinforcement as mind control we will assume that forms part of your hypothesis., and that is one major flaw in your 'reasoning'. Much of the reward system at ATS is unpredictable. If is wasn't there would be people playing the system and members like you would have points, stars and applause in the millions. That unpredictability makes it ineffective for the motives you attribute to it. Also, much of the reward system is in the hands of the membership, so you must think the majority, if not all members at ATS (except for you that is) are in on the mind control. Don’t you see how daft your thinking is?

How do you have the audacity to accuse anyone of attempting mind control tactics when you post deliberately manipulate posts to members who have shown by their posts that they suggestive - yes I noticed that about you. You are trying many tactics to get empathy, cause division, false alignment etc. you name it, you’re doing it to get anyone to think your way. But one thing you refuse to do is discuss your actions and thinking in the cold light of a serious argument, because that is exactly what you want to avoid.


[edit on 2-8-2008 by UFOpsychiczebra]

Originally posted by The_Alarmist2012
I have already been told in private by a staff member "if you feel the need to experiment, do it elsewhere. We frankly don't have the time for this".

Yet another T&C infraction today:

2f.) Private Messages: You will not use the private messaging system (U2U) to send mass messages to multiple member accounts. All private messages are subject to these terms and conditions, violations will result in immediate account termination. You also agree that "U2Us" (Private Messages) are confidential. You will not post or publically display U2Us received from ATS staff or other members, in any way, without the written permission of the author.

If you were going to do it, why not the whole u2u? Didn't sound ominous? Well, it's my words so I give myself the permission to post them:

We have a busy site to run here and the staff doesn't have the time for these "experiments". Personally, I have been giving you the benefit of the doubt and have attempted to answer everything that I could. This on the other hand is beyond the boundries of patience. PLEASE, if you feel the need to experiment, do it elsewhere. We frankly don't have the time for this.

This to an issue unrelated to this thread. Makes a lot more sense now, doesn't it?

Our members are DAMN smart, I'm SURE they can see what's going on here.

reply to post by intrepid



First of all, I want to publicly apologize for the above, and personally to intrepid for quoting from a private message, which could be taken out of context to mean something that was not intended, it was wrong. The terms and conditions forbid this. My ignorance in that regard will prove a near fatal blow to my credibility.

My apologies to intrepid, the ATS staff, and members.

I will come back to address the other issues on the topic of this thread at a later time. I have been away for a while and have some catching up to do.