Loose change is garbage!

There is no 9/11 conspiracy!

1. The fact that Dylan Avery (The creator of Loose Change), his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bull#. He, along with a couple of his friends, created a 9/11 conspiracy video claiming that the US government and the military caused 9/11. Take a closer look at the last part of that last sentence: he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it.

2. Since Dylan's arguing that the government has no problem killing 3,000 innocent people, this raises the question: if his documentary is true, and we've established that the government has no ethical qualms about killing thousands of its own people, then why wouldn't the government kill Avery and his friends as well? What's a few more lives to them to ensure the success of this conspiracy?

Whatever reason it may be that the government supposedly orchestrated this conspiracy, it must have been worth it to them to cause so much suffering and loss of life. So if there's any truth to this, then you can bet your ass that the government wouldn't let a couple of pecker-neck chumps with a couple of Macs and too much time on their hands jeopardise their entire operation by letting this stupid video float around on the Internet. I can picture you morons emailing me now: "BUT MADOX, MAYBE DYLAN POSTED IT ON THE INTERNET BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT HAD A CHANCE TO REMOVE IT LOL." Yeah, too bad this rebuttal is inconsistent with the premise of Dylan's #-festival of a movie: that the WTC was brought down "in a carefully planned and controlled demolition ... and it was pulled off with military precision." Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation? The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

I win. There is no conspiracy.

Taken from www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net...

I agree. This video also takes apart literally every thing said in loose change and proves it wrong, possibly the best sceptic video ever.
www.lolloosechange.co.nr...

Welcome to ATS. Good to have you join us.

You have touched on a much discussed subject here at ATS. I haven't read every post of every thread concerning "Loose Change" but it has been addressed.

Hopefully your new thread will bring forth new facts.

Again, welcome.

I agree! I throw my loose change at the feet of the poor and laugh as I look down on those that scramble to scrape it up. MUAAAHHHH

j/k...Seriously though, thanks, you saved me the time I would have otherwise wasted on this garbage.

Very good point. I bet that they would have no ethical qualms at all.

I am not a supporter either way, but I see it this way, if I address it from two standpoints.

1. 9-11 Skeptic:

The government doesn't to deal with Dylan Avery, hes just a nut. The government views this as a tragedy, not a triumph.

2. 9-11 Conspirator:

The government doesn't want to kill him, because the very reason we are talking about him. If we discovered he, and everyone else involved died. It would be very suspect. Even though the ones on ATS would be the only ones to openly discus it, some local media would make connections, and at least say something about it.

BAM!

Conspiracy=Truth

That could be why

I would also like to point out that in the movie it says that the WTC was build to withstand a Boeing 707. When in fact the planes where 767s, which are a much bigger model. Also, it says that fires alone caused the collapse of the buildings. Each plane completely obliterated about 5 floors of each building, including the core inside. That left only crippled steal to support the top 25 stories (on the south tower). It was inevitable that the buildings would collapse.

Well glad that's all over and done with then.

Loose Change is the only reason behind the 911 truth movement and the only DOCO to be made about it.

No other professional has come forward to speak of the science of that day. No other eye witnesses have come forward to explain exactly what they saw and heard that day. All the facts add up, exactly like the offical Bush Administration said. 19 guys (7 who are alive today) were behind it. Nothing has changed in MSM about reporting of 911 so it must be true.

Wake up sunshine.

Z

reply to post by smokinggun64


The following is satire and is not intended to mean or imply anything about anything or anybody.

Maybe da guvmint is so paralyse fum 9/11, dey ain't got to dose loose change boys yet.

All dey got so fah be moosowie. Dey ain' done nuffin yet. Dey ain' lock up no one. Dey jus kill a bunch Eye-rackies for nuffin but somptin ta do. Den dey promote all da lazy guvmint sojers dat let dat happen on 911 in da firs place.

Everting bout dis hole mess is garbidge, not jes loose change.

Looks like the young fellas are enjoying their summer holidays. Good job debunking fellas

Maybe you should look at all the garbage that has been dumped on the
American citizens by the Bush Administration!

Theres no conspiracy, but Bush and Cheney testify behind closed doors
with the 911 Commission. Search the Bush family history, Case Closed!

The reason the govt didnt top Avery is the same reason they dont top many of their opponents. If he was to be killed or commit 'suicide' where do you think the general public would first look for a suspect?

Case closed.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by Nonchalant]

Oh your title is misleading
I thought you were referring to the fact that American money has deteriorated
so much the your loose change was garbage


[edit on 2-8-2008 by solo1]

reply to post by smokinggun64


I beg to differ, and I did research, not just posting another article...

Modus Operandi

First, lets get a basic context of the phrase:

Modus operandi (often used in the abbreviated form MO) is a Latin phrase, approximately translatable as "mode of operation." It is used in police work to describe a criminal's characteristic patterns and style of work. The term is also commonly used in the United States of America in a non-criminal sense to describe someone's habits

First we must establish the MO for entering a non popular war. Pearl Harbor is my first case. In the late 90's when I was attending college, one of my professors was a PHD in military history. He gave us the strait talk about pearl harbor. He explained that we needed to get into war but it was unpopular, and FDR would only go into war if it was on our soil. A plan was concocted that would provoke the Japaneese into attacking, and then the strike was let to take place. There were a few ships in our fleet that were not in Pearl Harbor the morning of the attacks. I do not expect you to rely on 2nd hand testimony, this information has been FOIA'd and then amazingly reclassified:

“Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars,” was Roosevelt’s famous campaign statement of 1940. He wasn’t being ingenuous. FDR’s military and State Department leaders were agreeing that a victorious Nazi Germany would threaten the national security of the United States. In White House meetings the strong feeling was that America needed a call to action. This is not what the public wanted, though. Eighty to ninety percent of the American people wanted nothing to do with Europe’s war.

So this was dreampt up:

According to Day Of Deceit, in October 1940 FDR adopted a specific strategy to incite Japan to commit an overt act of war. Part of the strategy was to move America’s Pacific fleet out of California and anchor it in Pearl Harbor. Admiral James Richardson, the commander of the Pacific fleet, strongly opposed keeping the ships in harm’s way in Hawaii.

Source
I would like to mention (slightly off topic) that this book received a 70% approval rating. Coincidentally 70% is the lower end of "reasonable doubt".

The first attempt to quantify reasonable doubt was made by Simon in 1970.... From this, she gauged that the cutoff for reasonable doubt fell somewhere between the highest likelihood of guilt matched to an innocent verdict and the lowest likelihood of guilt matched to a guilty verdict. From these samples, Simon concluded that the standard was between .70 and .74.

Either way, it was enough to get FOIA requests reniged...

Immediately after Day of Deceit appeared in bookstores in 1999, NSA began withdrawing pre-Pearl Harbor documents from the Crane Files housed in Archives II. This means the government decided to continue 60 years of Pearl Harbor censorship. As of January 2002, over two dozen NSA withdrawal notices have triggered the removal of Pearl Harbor documents from public inspection.

Source

Secondly , I would like to cite the more known and recent information realting to MO, Operation Northwoods. In a nutshell, we planed false flag terrorist operations, which would be construed as an act of war:

Memo
More

The methodology in these 2 examples would lead to a very high likelyhood that the 911 scenario was similar, if not identical, to this:

United States wants to engage in an upopular war in the middle east. They provoke 'key players'. They deny the intel that an attack will happen, and aid the attack.

The only real varable between (the plans of) Northwoods and Pearl Harbor is that we 'assist' the perpetrators in one scenario and all out complete the task in another.

And finally Mr. Bush draws the conclusion for me...
Bush compares Pearl Harbor to 9/11 to back Iraq policy

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We did it before, so your logic is invalid.

dear Sir
I know that it is almost impossable to believe . But it is true .
It will tear out your guts. We are all victims of the horror.
Just refusing to accept the truth is what these monsters are counting on.
That is a luxury we cant afford anymore. Proof is everywhere in every
aspect. Proof is not the question. What is is what can we do?. There is a war
against America. Those monsters are real just as real as the Federal Reserve
Just are real as Vet nana was. Just as real as JFK was and the Silverback
And Abe Lincoln and his Green Back. As the crimes the CIA have done in our
Name .Yes we must brave and face this beast before it feeds again.

www.loosechange911.com...

So did they make this up too OP?

Plot thickens (more like sets).

Z

Originally posted by smokinggun64
1. The fact that Dylan Avery (The creator of Loose Change), his friends, and family are alive, is proof that "Loose Change" is bull#.

By NOT killing him, they're making "Loose Change" less credible for the very reasons you speak of. As such, NOT killing them is the best option for CIA and FBI.

Originally posted by smokinggun64
he's claiming that the US government, for whatever ends, killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans, and tens if not hundreds of thousands of more lives in the conflicts that ensued because of it.

Why is that so hard to believe? Governments lie, you know?!?! Is there any reason to believe that not the CIA but some Islamic fundamentalist organisation orchestrated the event other than the CIA telling us this?

Originally posted by smokinggun64
Now we're expected to believe that the same government that was able to commit the largest terrorist operation in history--with military precision no less--is suddenly too incompetent to sniff out and shut down a little website set up by some college losers within days, if not minutes of its creation? The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

You underestimate the bureaucracy involved in monitoring every webside and e-mail. You underestimate the importance of "freedom of speech" in the US. You underestimate the way this sort of information spreads on the internet. You ignore the fact that numberous people all over the world have been blaming the US government from day one. In fact, I myself instantly knew that 9-11 was an inside job because that was the only explanation that made any sense.


Anyway, I agree with the fact that Loose Change is flawed. It is, however, far from the only critical source of the official version of 9/11 and many others have provided far stronger evidence for the fact that 9/11 truely was an inside job.