Whats your basis for belief?

Hey all,

Over the past few years, I have stayed as far away as I could against religion of any kind. I say this because I used to be christian and now I am atheist. Before anybody flames me on what I am about to say please understand that I am not saying these things to piss religious people off so please dont take it as that way, these are my opinions.

Well anyways, the reason why I stopped believing in any religion of any kind is that to me, it seemed fake, or made up. The more I read the bible, the more the stuff was like a story. Who knows if the bible was just a story written by some random guy that had nothing better to do?

Have christians seen heaven and hell? I surely dont think so. If you have then send me a U2U with full instructions on how to see heaven. Just a joke for anyone wondering.

Some people have told me its better to be safe than sorry. But Im sorry, I dont want to deprive myself of my own personal fun for a book telling me what I should do if I want to get to heaven. Ill be honest, I have had sex before marriage, I take pride in my work, I dont have envy which is just stupid to have in the first place.

If "God" put us on earth and gives us the option of heaven or hell, then why doesnt he make himself more clear if this is all real.

The more I look at science, the more religion becomes fake crap to me. To me, science makes more sense. Evolution makes more sense.

And yes, aliens make more sense to me than religion.

Then again these are my opinions on religion. Now my question to you all is:


What is your basis for belief in religion?

No matter what you are.

i dont believe anything. i used to be a hardore christian but then i found inaccuracies in the text, that were beyond simple errors. they had been manipulated.

so it wouldnt be fair for god to judge me off manipulated texts and gods supposed to be just and fair. so i am off the hook for that. now i think freely. i think god would make salvation something you dont have to read a book for, it would be written in nature itself. i think ive found what im looking for.

but all faith is is "knowing something that you cant know" its illogical.
i stick with what i can know, and keep my mind open.
just my thoughts.

Hey, please come over to the following thread...lot's of answers to your question...

Which Has The Most Evidence Aliens or God?

I'm dizzy with all the hunt and pecking with threads...pls join the conversion over there, ok?

Originally posted by OldThinker

Hey, please come over to the following thread...lot's of answers to your question...

Which Has The Most Evidence Aliens or God?

I'm dizzy with all the hunt and pecking with threads...pls join the conversion over there, ok?

I will contribute to that thread, however, this thread is mainly to ask users what they base their beliefs on not which has more evidence.

I find it fascinating that those who have commented so far have 'experience' of mainstream religion.

I am the same, heavy church back ground (UK CofE)

I believe in me, the only one I can trust(most of the time)

also

The more I look at science, the more religion becomes fake crap to me. To me, science makes more sense.

one thing in my study of ancient religions i have found something to be true.

true science is religion, and true religion is science.

all the really ancient religions knew this.
in history class we learn the oldest documents are normally the most accurate, might the same be true of religion?

Apparently an unorthadox catholic

i dont really know if Jesus was the son of god but i think at the least he was a dude who knew what he was talking about, i just try to live my life by the example he left us (fail miserably at times but i do try) and leave the the critique of the bible to scholars and scientists trying to cut each others throats trying to prove or disprove their theories.

i find the alleged inconsistancies in the bible to be irrelevant to me its more a book on morals and ethics and how to relate to each other in a positive way.

Originally posted by Demandred
Apparently an unorthadox catholic

i dont really know if Jesus was the son of god but i think at the least he was a dude who knew what he was talking about, i just try to live my life by the example he left us (fail miserably at times but i do try) and leave the the critique of the bible to scholars and scientists trying to cut each others throats trying to prove or disprove their theories.

i find the alleged inconsistancies in the bible to be irrelevant to me its more a book on morals and ethics and how to relate to each other in a positive way.

I do have to agree with you on that one.

However, knowing some really hardcore christians that go to church more than once a week, that study the bible like they have bible finals on it tomorow, I have seen that they are miserable, because they take into it too much. And since I respect everybodies beliefs and feelings, I dont say anything to hurt them.

I live my life quietly and peacefully, I help the homeless, I help friends in need, no need for any god or jesus to guide me along the way.

Any more thoughts? or did this thread just die?

What is my basis? I've already posted this on BTS.

I am a scientific person and everything should be explained by facts and evidences.

The verse that peaked my interest is this one:

Peter 3:8 NIV

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

....

One might ask, how can a day be a thousand years and a thousand years be a day? This sound rather absurd. But, using scientific knowledge, this becomes possible.

Its called relativity.

Here is a mathematical explanation:

Say, if a spaceship traveling at 80% the speed of light for 1 hour, how much time has passed by relative to Earth?

t1=Gamma x t2

where gamma is

1/√ [1- (v/c)² ]

and the t1 and t2 are the times to each observer.

So, say that we're at v=0.8c

Gamma is going to be

1/√[1-.64] or 1/√[.36] which works out to

Gamma=5/3

If the spaceship sees one hour,

t earth=(5/3) x (1 hour)

The earth experiences 5/3 hours or 1.667 hours.

Simplifying everything, we have:

Δt' = γ Δt
. . = Δt / √( 1 - v² / c² )
. . = ( 1 hr ) / √( 1 - ( 0.8c )² / c² )
. . = 1 hr / √( 1 - 0.64 )
. . = 1 hr / 0.6
. . = 1.667 hr


Therefore, the spaceship is effectively traveling to the future as 1 hour on the spaceship traveling at 80% the speed of light equals 1.667 hours on Earth.

Adding the scriptures here, to the Lord 1.667 hour is like an hour (…a thousand years are like a day). Science has explained that time dilation is possible according to Einstein’s Relativity.

Reading the verse again (Peter 3:8), how fast is the Lord traveling so that a thousand years on Earth is like a day with Him?

Solution:

Δt = t_0 / √(1 - v² / c² )
1000 years = 1 day / √(1 - v² / 299,792,458² )
365250 days x √(1 - v² / 299,792,458² ) = 1 day
133407562500 x (1- v² / 89875517873681764) = 1
133407562500 - 133407562500v² / 89875517873681764 = 1
- 133407562500v² / 89875517873681764 = -133407562499
- 133407562500v² = -11990073767863191518066568236
v² = 89875517873008072.672541095531972
v = 299792457.99887640380956453724992

The answer is 299,792,457.99887640380956453724992 m/s. The speed of light is exactly 299,792,458 m/s. It strangely gives a result of near the speed of light at 99.999999999625% of unbelievable accuracy.

In order for time to move, the Lord should be traveling less than the speed of light because at exactly at the speed of light, time will be zero at infinity, at eternity. The verse strangely registers just a tiny hair away from the speed of light to enable for time to move, otherwise, it will stand still at the speed of light and there will be no time to measure in this case. The strange accuracy of the verse should be well noted. It could compute for any random number resulting less than the speed of light, like say, 129,324,987 m/s, but, strangely it chooses a resulting answer digit for digit accuracy of the speed of light except for the last digit in order to make a point. It is as if it is trying to get our attention of the accuracy of the Bible. The first quantitative estimate of the speed of light was only made in 1676 by Ole Christensen Rømer.

....

There! This is not the only fact I have discovered in the Bible, there are even more! How can an ancient Bible knows about time dilation and the speed of light even before Einsteins theory of Relativity??? Very strange. One leads to conclude that Einstein copied his ideas from the Bible. Did Einstein plagiarise?

The Bible contains both, faith and fact. In faith, so that you believe without evidence, in fact, so that you believe.

I believe there is a god or something more than we can see but not one that makes prophets, sacred scripts etc. I think we can never really know what god is because it is above our understanding.

Perhaps life happened by accident and god or nature dosent really care about us. Maybe God just wants entertainment, maybe he has other projects that we can't see or understand that are more important to him than us.

Originally posted by amitheone
What is my basis? I've already posted this on BTS.

I am a scientific person and everything should be explained by facts and evidences.

The verse that peaked my interest is this one:

Peter 3:8 NIV

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

....

One might ask, how can a day be a thousand years and a thousand years be a day? This sound rather absurd. But, using scientific knowledge, this becomes possible.

Its called relativity.

Here is a mathematical explanation:

Say, if a spaceship traveling at 80% the speed of light for 1 hour, how much time has passed by relative to Earth?

t1=Gamma x t2

where gamma is

1/√ [1- (v/c)² ]

and the t1 and t2 are the times to each observer.

So, say that we're at v=0.8c

Gamma is going to be

1/√[1-.64] or 1/√[.36] which works out to

Gamma=5/3

If the spaceship sees one hour,

t earth=(5/3) x (1 hour)

The earth experiences 5/3 hours or 1.667 hours.

Simplifying everything, we have:

Δt' = γ Δt
. . = Δt / √( 1 - v² / c² )
. . = ( 1 hr ) / √( 1 - ( 0.8c )² / c² )
. . = 1 hr / √( 1 - 0.64 )
. . = 1 hr / 0.6
. . = 1.667 hr


Therefore, the spaceship is effectively traveling to the future as 1 hour on the spaceship traveling at 80% the speed of light equals 1.667 hours on Earth.

Adding the scriptures here, to the Lord 1.667 hour is like an hour (…a thousand years are like a day). Science has explained that time dilation is possible according to Einstein’s Relativity.

Reading the verse again (Peter 3:8), how fast is the Lord traveling so that a thousand years on Earth is like a day with Him?

Solution:

Δt = t_0 / √(1 - v² / c² )
1000 years = 1 day / √(1 - v² / 299,792,458² )
365250 days x √(1 - v² / 299,792,458² ) = 1 day
133407562500 x (1- v² / 89875517873681764) = 1
133407562500 - 133407562500v² / 89875517873681764 = 1
- 133407562500v² / 89875517873681764 = -133407562499
- 133407562500v² = -11990073767863191518066568236
v² = 89875517873008072.672541095531972
v = 299792457.99887640380956453724992

The answer is 299,792,457.99887640380956453724992 m/s. The speed of light is exactly 299,792,458 m/s. It strangely gives a result of near the speed of light at 99.999999999625% of unbelievable accuracy.

In order for time to move, the Lord should be traveling less than the speed of light because at exactly at the speed of light, time will be zero at infinity, at eternity. The verse strangely registers just a tiny hair away from the speed of light to enable for time to move, otherwise, it will stand still at the speed of light and there will be no time to measure in this case. The strange accuracy of the verse should be well noted. It could compute for any random number resulting less than the speed of light, like say, 129,324,987 m/s, but, strangely it chooses a resulting answer digit for digit accuracy of the speed of light except for the last digit in order to make a point. It is as if it is trying to get our attention of the accuracy of the Bible. The first quantitative estimate of the speed of light was only made in 1676 by Ole Christensen Rømer.

....

There! This is not the only fact I have discovered in the Bible, there are even more! How can an ancient Bible knows about time dilation and the speed of light even before Einsteins theory of Relativity??? Very strange. One leads to conclude that Einstein copied his ideas from the Bible. Did Einstein plagiarise?

The Bible contains both, faith and fact. In faith, so that you believe without evidence, in fact, so that you believe.

the scariest part of your post is the fact that i understood it

well not so much the equation part, however if your calculations are correct and it will need someone with more smarts than me to deturmine that , it is a real curiosity that ive never heard of in relation to the bible..

The basis is faith like any other dogmatic practice

reply to post by TeH PwNeR
That is why God gave us prophecy.

To authenticate the message coming from an omnipotent God, not man.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by TeH PwNeR

 

That is why God gave us prophecy.

To authenticate the message coming from an omnipotent God, not man.

What about all the failed prophecies? For example

Jeremiah 36:30
Therefore thus says the Lord concerning Jehoiakim king of Judah, he shall have none to sit on the throne of David.
While in
II Kings 24:6
So Jehoiakim slept with his fathers and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead.

FAILED PROPHECY

Ezekiel 29:20
I have given him [Nebuchadnezzar] the land of Egypt as his recompense for which he has laboured, because they worked for me, says the Lord God.

When did Nebuchadnezzar conquer Egypt? FAILED PROPHECY

Ezekiel 29:8-12
...thus says the Lord God..and the land of Egypt shall be a desolation and a waste...no foot of man shall pass through it and no foot of beast shall past through it; it shall be uninhabited for forty years. And I will make the city of Egypt a desolation in the midst of desolated countries; and her cities shall be desolated forty years... I will scatter Egyptian among the nations, and disperse them through the countries.

We're still waiting for any of these prophecies !

Ezekiel 26:7-14
For thus says the Lord: "Behold I will bring upon Tyre from the north Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, and with horsemen and a hosts of many soldiers. He will slay with the sword your daughters on the mainland; he will set up a seige wall against you. He will direct the shock of his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers...With the hoofs os his horses he will trample all your streets; he will slay your people with the sword and your mighty pillar will fall to the ground...they will break down your walls and destroy your pleasant houses... I will make you a bare rock...you shall never be rebuilt, for I have spoken," says the Lord God.

Never happened therefore FAILED PROPHECY

Isaiah 7:1-7
In the days of Ahaz,...king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remaliah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it...And the Lord said to Isaiah “Go forth to meet Ahaz...and say to him, ‘Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint...at the fierce anger of Rezin...and the son of Remaliah. Because Syria...and the son of Remaliah has devised evil against you saying “Let us go up against Judah and terrify it and let us conquer it for ourselves...” thus says the Lord God: “It shall not stand and it shall not come to pass...”

Yet as we see

II Chronicles 28:1, 5-6
Ahaz was 20 years old when he began his reign...[T]he Lord God gave him into the hand of the king of Syria, who defeated him and took captive a great number of his people...He was also given into the hand of the king of Israel who defeated him with great slaughter. For Pekah the son of Remaliah slew a hundred and twenty thousand in Judah in one day..

Was it conquered or not?????

Isaiah 17:1-2
An oracle concerning Damascus. See, Damascus will cease to be a city, and will become a heap of ruins. Her towns will be deserted forever...

Again still waiting as we are for this one

Isaiah 19:5-7
And the waters of the Nile will be dried up, and the river will be parched and dry; and its canal will become foul, and the branches of Egypt's Nile will diminish and dry up, reeds and rushes will rot away. There will be bare places by the Nile, on the brink of the Nile, and all that is sown by the Nile will dry up, be driven away, and be no more.

Don't even get me started on the book of Daniel which contains so many historical inaccuracies that it begs belief which are even more compounded by the recognized fact that the book of Daniel was written well after the events pertained excepting the desecration of the temple (which was around the time it was written)


Concerning the other so called 'fulfilled' prophecies they are so vague that they can't even be considered or they are fulfilled on purpose.


G

Originally posted by amitheone

The Bible contains both, faith and fact. In faith, so that you believe without evidence, in fact, so that you believe.

Does it really? That would depend on your concept of what day means - sunrise to sunset for the ancient Jews which is equally dependent on the time of year. Plus the fact that the Earth is slowing and days are getting longer/shorter depending on the time of year. So your calculations are debatable.


G

First of all, aren't you supposed to source your copied info dude??

Mods take notice please.


your website refuted

Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by amitheone

The Bible contains both, faith and fact. In faith, so that you believe without evidence, in fact, so that you believe.

Does it really? That would depend on your concept of what day means - sunrise to sunset for the ancient Jews which is equally dependent on the time of year. Plus the fact that the Earth is slowing and days are getting longer/shorter depending on the time of year. So your calculations are debatable.


G

We are not talking about the days are getting longer due to the revolution of the Earth, we are talking about relativity here, velocity time dilation, and special relativity.

the scariest part of your post is the fact that i understood it

well not so much the equation part, however if your calculations are correct and it will need someone with more smarts than me to deturmine that

, it is a real curiosity that ive never heard of in relation to the bible..

Glad you understood it. You can have the calculations checked with your physics professor. Blackholes are also in the Bible.

[edit on 8/4/2008 by amitheone]

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
First of all, aren't you supposed to source your copied info dude??

Mods take notice please.


your website refuted

Well it cetainly wasn't the website you listed which answered nothing.
While I do refer to many sites for my info I do check it against quite a few online copies of the bible (just to make sure thats what the scripture says) I think you will find most of the source material come from the bible itself.

So please stop beating around the bush and try and refute these biblical sources.


G