Q & A For Handgun Experts

I've got the Q, maybe you've got the A.

Recently, just north and a little to the right of The Shaolin Temple, in sunny Shanghai, an unhappy communist walked into a police station and killed six police officers with...a knife.

This 'happening' brought to mind an old question that never really computed with The Univac500. Maybe you can help.

I'm afraid we must return to the Virginia Tech Shooting.
Now, I'm not here trying to rehash various theories about lunatic Cho Seung Hui; nor do I wish to appear flippant toward the whole tradgedy.

Simply put, I want to know how one person with a handgun (or two, as the case may be) can shoot so many people? Maybe I should flip the question.

I want to know:

What happens to a room full of people when a gunman storms in and starts shooting?

Don't people react?

Don't people start throwing desks, chairs, books, and pencils at the shooter?

Doesn't someone, like say a 'man', throw himself at the shooter?

Is the handgun (or knife) a cobra? Does it throw victims into a trance?

I hope this doesn't come across as macabre - and I am certainly not asking for insights into how one technically kills a person with a handgun. I just don't understand. Am I missing something here? Perhaps my training with Chinese Throwing Darts has enboldened me - and I am ignorant as to the realities of staring down the wrong end of a handgun (or knife).

I just don't understand how a shooter, with a close-range weapon such as handgun, can shoot 32 people...without someone having done something to remedy the situation.

Easy question. Bullets are fast!! Trying to dodge them in a crowded area is usually ineffective. Also, with a lot of people in closed quarters, the gunman really doesn't even need to take aim. The old fish in a barrell addage.

Also, most people's response to gunshots is not to run towards them. If someone is unarmed, the only intelligent thing to do is run away from them. I could understand if you were behind the shooter, how one might try to stop him, but a face to face encounter is almost pointless.

A knife is a different story, you have got to be pretty skilled to walk into a police station and kill six cops with a knife before being shot.


edit to say: Sorry but I had to laugh at your training with Chinese Throwing Darts. No offense.

[edit on 7/30/2008 by JesterMan]

Most people in the event of having a gun pointed at their general direction just shut theyr're brains off. The mind goes into panic mode.
The body takes a few seconds to catch up with the speed of thought, by then it's too late.
If the 'gunman or knifeman' are focussed and they have all the intention to cause as much damage as they can then theres very little thought being given, now the person on the recieving end is caught unawares and in shock stay rooted to the spot. the brain is trying to work out the next move, bythen the gunmans pulled the trigger.
The brain speeds up, adrenalin flows but the muscles is what slows the getting away part down.
Its like when in London in the mid 90's a bomb went off at a local embassy near to where i was working. it went 'Boom' and people started looking around saying "whats that?".
people nearby dont know whats going on . so therefore dont move or investigate, they question.
the people in the immediate enivronment try to run but depending on how many there are fall over each other in the stampede to be first out of harms way therefore creating a bottle neck ( look at the scene or the film 'Relic' when the beastie attacks the musuem goers - they all try to get out the doors but only succeed in getting it blocked allowing for more casualties.)
same in a gunman attack.
as for killing 6 cops with a knife before gettting shot , same a gun only less noisy no ones knows anything about it unless they see it or hear the commotion... besided i watched a video of a guy in thailand if I remember correctly, he went bezerk and lashed out at cops witha meat cleaver, a cop tried to tackle him only to stumble and the guy took a swing at the cops neck, barely missed him as he rolled out the way. all it takes is a wrong angle, across the neck and jugular and your trying to keep your blood from flowing out unable to make a sound apart from a very unpleasent gurgling... yuck
not only that I was nearly shot years ago, it passed so close to my face I actually saw the bullet, just a grey blur as it passed in front of me. ( my uncle ran a gun club and used to practice with his .22 sports pistol in his yard, I went to see him opened the back yard door and stepped through, only to hear the 'crack' and see the blur. very scary but the adrenalin only kicked in when I'd realised what had happened, Unc was very apologetic and never shot again in his back yard, Oh and that was London in the 80's by the way)

[edit on 30/7/08 by DataWraith]

Most people are self conditioned to run away from danger, and that is exactly what any gunman wants.

There is an old saying that goes "Run away from a knife, run towards a gun".

When faced with an armed gunman, your best chance is to fight back, both as an individual and especially as a group.

If people would be willing to do that, the twin towers would still be standing, and Virginia Tech would have had a very different outcome.

But even as you read this, if you heard a gun shot behind you, you would run like a rabbit. It's a difficult mindset to acquire, even for someone who has been trained.

Good luck with the throwing stars.

reply to post by univac500


I’m just surprised that you’re surprised how stupid people can be. If you’ve seen enough disasters/violent situations you would be well aware of how people can go into a sort of ‘mass shock’ and act like complete morons. Interestingly, my experience is the bigger the size of the crowd the dumber they seem to act. An aggressor in an open space with limited bystanders will often be confronted by those present. However, a large crowd tends to stampede away and once a few individuals panic, it spreads through the crowd. People begin to scream, shove, etc. That creates a domino effect resulting in more confusion, panic, etc. That makes it that much harder for those that want to react to do so effectively.

Interesting topic! I am not a handgun expert though... only a big fan. Hope that doesn't preclude me from posting.

Here is some info on knife versus gun that surprised me a little: Tueller Drill
]

Regards,
1080

One poster talked about how people act stupid in big numbers, that is called a Mob Mentality, and it is part of the problem. When a person hears a gunshot, they will begin to think "WTF was that?", then, as they and their fellow persons realize it is a weapon, someone will run, and someone will follow him/her, and so on and so forth. This happens in a matter of seconds, then you have a huge group of people running like chickens with their heads cut off.

I have never been shot at, however, as i type, i have a 12 gauge shotgun resting next to my bed, and i fully intend on using it if the need should arise, i dont want it to, but i will do what is needed to protect myself and my family. I also have a 9mm Glock with a loaded clip next to it within arms reach if it is needed.

I take my weapons to the range once a week, and i have been shooting since i was 8 years old, and i have never had an incident in 11 years.

I aspire to be a police officer and i know that at some point i may be shot/stabbed, but, its a risk im willing to take to keep those i love and cherish safe from harm, and give them a sense of safety when they go to sleep at night.

Im not a combat expert, i have never been in a firefight, or knifefight, fistfights and wrestling with friends, absolutely, and as any man can tell you, you dont think as you did before, adrenaline takes over and on some occasions i have had no memory of a fight until it was all over.

One being when i was 8 years old, i got into it with a 13 year old kid who was at my friends house and taunting me to fight him. Yes, a 13 year old kid challenging an 8 year old to a fight. I tried to turn him down, but the dumb bastard went and made fun of my mom (seriously). The only thing i remember was everything closing in around his face, and it seemed as though my vision zoomed in on it. The next thing i knew, i was standing over him, him being unconscious and propped against the sole tree in the yard. He stayed that was for a good minute or so, then came back to and went home.

My friend then explained that i had tackled him into the tree, and it had knocked him out. I have never experienced that level of adrenaline again, but im sure that it is close to what you would experience in a situation of high stress like a shooting, therefore i would blame it on pure, raw, human instinct. Survival at its worst i would say.

Originally posted by univac500
...I just don't understand how a shooter, with a close-range weapon such as handgun, can shoot 32 people...without someone having done something to remedy the situation.

Because in the last 50 years, people have been told to "co-operate" with robbers, rapists, and other people bent on evil, in the hopes of not getting hurt. (Really, to protect businesses from law suits, but that's another story).

Look at the Pizza Hut guy fired for killing that guy because the guy pulled a gun on him. Corporate profits > human life to a corporation.

reply to post by sir_chancealot


Not to mention the kid working at 711 that got fired for knocking out a robber when he was threatening the cashier. People are stupid, hell you can steal from most department stores and they won't stop you, its cheaper to write it off than file a report and what not.