Intersex "Gender" and the Bible?

Is there any place in the bible where the intersex "gender" is announced or talked about in the bible. I know that there was a god of greek who was intersex, but had never heard of anyone in the Catholic/Christian religion who was.

I do not want this to be a debate about religion/s, I just want to know the facts. I am also not religious, but spiritual. In advance, thanks for your responses.

Call me dumb, but what do you mean by inter-sex? Like "incest"? Because the bible is full of that. Or inter-racial? Which of course it's full of that too. OR, inter-species? Heh heh, can't ever remember reading that, but I'm sure it's in there as well.

Nor am I religious, but am spiritual in my way as well.

Be watching for your response.

-Gnosis-

Ok I just re-read your post (shame on me for posting w/o fully reading). Do you mean hermaphrodite? If so, can't say I've read that either.



-Gnosis-

I'll be the last person to tell you to go F**K yourself....

Just messing with you.

Isn't GOD/DESS Intersexed?

Didn't Shim write the Bible?

That's what I always thought.

As far as I know, Hermaphrodites were worshipped and often looked upon as the "Perfect Beings", when they were born throughout the world for thousands of years.

I added the figured up once, after reading the ratio of people who are born intersexed in the population, like one in half a million or something. That would place approximately 10,000 intersexed people on the planet at this time.

Do you think this figure is correct, HawaiiGurl?

I would think that it would be more than 10,000 people. I do not condem or frown upon people who are intersex, I think that with regards to the female/men gender they are one of the most intellectual people out there. I hope no one thought that I was against intersex people. I watched an episiode on Oprah about them and have seen many topics about the Bible on ATS, i searched for this topic and it was no where in site, so I was just curious. I went to a Catholic school and we were never taught anything about the intersex gender in regards to the Bible.

Groupies:

Have a reall close look at the unpointed paleo-Hebrew of Beresh-ith 5:1-2 (Genesis 5:1):

'This is the Scroll of the Toledoth ('Generations') of Adam in the day when Elohim created Adam and he created THEM MALE and FEMALE in the LIKENESS of ELOHIM and he blessed THEM and he called THEIR NAME Adam...'

So literally taken, the clan god of Israel is technically hermaphrodite, having both MALE and FEMALE parts since man was created 'after his own likeness' according to Genesis chapter 5:1-2 (Adam, created in the 'likeness and image of the god' is technically both MALE & FEMALE).

Probitiions of cross dressing can be found in Deut chapter 22, and of course there is the nasty scene in I Sam 20:30-31 where Saul the King chides his son for 'choosing to marry the Son of David to the CONFUSION (i.e. cross dressing) of his mothers' nakedness'

'Then Saul [the King's] anger began to boil against his son Jonathan and he said to him, Oh You Son of a Perverse and Un-natural Female ! Do you think that I do not know THAT YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO MARRY the son of Jesse to the CONFUSION of your mother's nakedness, and to your own CONFUSION? If you persist, as long as that Son of Jesse lives upon this earth, neither yourself or your Kingdom (i.e. your lineage) will never be Established ! Now you bring him here, so I can kill him !"

There are a remarkable number of cross-sexual terms being used in the unpointed (un-vowelled) paleo Hebrew in these two short verses (i.e. 1 Sam 20:30-31 where the verb 'chosen to marry' is generally rendered in the King James version as 'chosen' or in other translations as 'selected'--but the term is a technical term for a young woman choosing a husband from a flock of suitors.

Apparently the two young men were 'doing a lot more than just holding hands' (CK Barrett, 1978)

See 1 Sam 18:1-2 'and from that moment, the soul of Jonathan was woven into the Soul of David, for Jonathan loved David as his own Soul...' and also the Paean Dirge that David wrote for Jonathan after the latter was killed on Mt Gilboa found in paleo Hebrew 2 Sam: chapter 1: 26

"Jonathan, Jonathan my brother-by-marriage ! My love for thee was utterly satisfaction to me---so full of wonder, so far-surpassing the love of any female !'

The term 'confusion' in Saul's Rant (Heb. Bosheth) can also be seen in the holiness code section of the book of Leveticus 'neither shall a man dress in the clothes of a woman, it is Confusion (Bosheth)'--clearly implying that David & Jonathan were 'confusing' their 'socially acceptable' sexual roles as two males.

The Hebrew noun 'Bacher' means 'wife/husband' and if you change the vowel pointing to Bocher you get something like 'intimate companiion'--which is what the Greek Old Testament chooses to vowell that word: either way something's very sexually amiss in Judaea between these two boys as Saul the King must have suspected when he basically said in essence to Jonathan,

'Listen, you weak little sissie-britches ! I blame your mother for this whole peverted mess you've gotten yourself into ! Do you think for one minute you could ever get sons for your future throne out of that precious boy-toy of yours,, that David son of a nobody, if you keep acting like you're both married to each other? Be a man--and do your duty !'

Then of course we have the shrines built alongside the temple of YHWH at Jerusalem for the 'sodomites' (Heb. 'Qadoshim', lit. 'holy ones') which means that some form of Canaanite Fertility Ritual via sacred temple homosexual prostitution was being ritually performed on the altars around 960 BC 1 Kings 14:24 -- much to the chagrin of the later post Exilic writers under Jeremiah who wrote about them being 'abominable' (toq'ebah - a ritually unclean thing').










[edit on 28-7-2008 by Chrystostomus]

Thanks for pointing that out, that was exactly what I was looking for.

intersex people are as normal as anyone else

its physicalities that people put in the way

its like saying blondes are dumb because they are blonde

god has made everything, yes even intersexed people, there are so many intersex conditions, do you think these people cannot find salvation through jesus?

no, and who are we as people to judge how these people should live?

exactly

I have quite of few trans friends and 2 actual chromosomed intersexed friends, they are not different from you or I, maybe the have more problems due to the fact of people not accepting them, but thats about it

its the same arguement of, color, race, etc

its just lame, people are people

id be more concerned of WHO they are and not WHAT they are as I believe jesus does, he looks at the heart of people

not organs or lack of or extra of

I did not want to say this, but since it has come up, I do not believe in the Bible, that is why I am asking. I am looking for facts of life that are not represented in the Bible. If you read the post, I have stated that I think intersex people are some of the most intellectual people that are born, but obviously you haven't, so next time you should read everthing before you post. I'm not judging, I'm just trying to disprove the Bible in my own way.

Can hermaphrodites get themselves pregnant?

From my understanding, no they cant. They don't have fully developed both female and male organs on the inside, even though some might have both on the outside. And some aren't fully developed on the outside. Some are born with the female or male gene on the inside but have the opposite on the outside.

There was a running Joke when I was an undergraduate in England...which ran: 'If God doesn't make mistakes...then explain why men have...NIPPLES !!'

We all know that both male and female 'modern' terran humans (homo sapiens sapiens) have BOTH male and female hormones in their system, neither gender having all female or all male hormones, but an admixture of both. Males tend to have more male hormones (including 'Testosterone') and Females tend to have more operative female hormones (including "Estrogen") but both genders have BOTH hormones running freely in their bodies...

Sometimes human males coming in contact with certain substances e.g. out in the field picking barley hops (high in estrogen) for weeks on end start to 'grow breasts' and have trouble growing facial hair--at least as long as they are in contact with the substance and for some time after... in other words, the female hormones in their systems become unduly saturated in their bodies and voila ! -- they start 'turning into females'.....

This all brings us back to the Creation Myths of the Near East (including the Creation Myth #1 in Genesis chapters 1:1 to 2:4a written by 'the school of the prophet Hezekiel' (i.e. the writer used his language style, syntax, vocabulary, spelling, grammar and word order etc.) where ELOHIM created man, male and female according to his own likeness, and he CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM--where the idea in the 1st Creation Myth of the Hebrew Bible shows male-females as equal partners in humanity--so unlike the 2nd Creation Myth in Genesis 2:4b to the end of chapter 4 where you have the sexist Adam and Hayyah Fable with Hayya ('Eve') being burdened with bringing sin and corruption into the 'garden'...by listening to, of all things, Talking Snakes....!!

So...come to think of it...Why DO human males have NIPPLES anyway ?

Riddle me THAT one, all you macho-men out there !!

Hmmmmmmm !!

Question: "What does the Bible say about hermaphrodites?"

Answer: Babies that are born with both male and female sexual organs, or characteristics of both organs, are called hermaphrodites or intersex. A child who is in an intersex state is classified in one of three categories: 1) true hermaphrodite – an infant born with both ovaries and testicles and has both male and female sex organs. 2) female pseudohermaphrodite – a genetic female with male external sex organs. 3) male pseudohermaphrodite – genetic male with external sex organs that fail to develop properly, resulting in female or male/female physical characteristics.

In times past, doctors would perform surgeries without first testing the infant to find out its true sex, and the child would sometimes grow up very obviously a man, with female genitalia. Now, specialists can perform an ultrasound, blood test, chromosome analysis, and even do exploratory surgery to find out the baby's true sex. The treatment is still controversial, however.

Some believe that surgery and/or hormonal therapy should begin within the first 15 months of life, and others believe these things should be put off until the child is old enough to make his or her own decision about it. There are pros and cons for each side. Either way, any family with an intersex infant should begin counseling, as should the child when he or she is old enough.

When babies are developing in the womb, they all begin with sex organs that look female. If the baby is male, he begins to produce testosterone, and if the hormone reaches the tissues correctly, the external genitals become a scrotum and penis. Chromosomal or sex hormone abnormalities can produce an infant in an intersex state. It can also be caused by a condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia, which is a disease the blocks the baby's metabolism. It is not as uncommon as we might think; about 1 in every 2,000 newborns is born in an intersex state.

Babies are not born with physical disorders to punish their parents in any way. Although God created the earth perfectly, it soon brought destruction upon itself with the onset of human sin (Romans 5:12). Before the Flood in Genesis chapter 7 that wiped out almost all living things on the earth, people had the potential to live for several hundred years.

After the Flood, human life spans grew progressively shorter, indicating a change in the environment which resulted in damage to the human genetic structure. This also explains why incest was necessary for the population of the earth in Genesis, but was forbidden later in the laws of Leviticus (verses 18:6-18). Now, thousands of years later as sin continues to permeate the world, the human race has been bombarded with every kind of sickness, disease, disorder and birth defect we can imagine.

It is very possible for a child born with both sex organs to grow up to have a healthy view of sexuality and successful relationships. From early on, the child should be taught how valuable, loved and accepted they are by their family and also by God. He or she is not a victim of divine judgment, but God has a plan for each one of us that will bring Him glory, as we can learn from a man who was healed by Jesus Christ.

“'Teacher,' his disciples asked him, 'why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?' 'It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins,' Jesus answered. 'He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him'” (John 9:2-3).

Ok, let me say, as a high priestess of my own personal religion [PLEASE LAUGH (tongue in cheek) all you atheists!] that without trying to preach, I believe that Yahweh [throw any other names you want on here, I'm cool] in fact IS a hermaphrodite, even though not in the precise manner as in the physical form we physical beings are.

Yes, I believe that Adam was created a truly functioning hermaphrodite, fully fertile and fully capable of reproducing alone, and that [for some reason] Yahweh, as an after thought, or as part of some complex design, decided to DIVIDE Adam's reproductive organs and [toss out the word "rib" here?] make Eve from their flesh and "closed the hole therein" [ what is now days called "SRS" ( Sexual Reassignment Surgery ) ] and made a hierarchical system [call this heresy if you must?] and was in all Hir divine wisdom still learning and experimenting with the physical beings to produce a refined and effective system to defeat Satan.

Some of what is in the bible, my carnal self complains about, I do not proclaim to see with supernatural vision that which the Creatrette had in mind when Shi made humans, and I am far from perfect, and make no such claims, but I can say that I can vouch in my own self [and who else do I have to save after all?] that Yahweh is real, sovereign, true and a hermaphrodite in the more spiritual sense.

In my personal view, we who are intersexed, whatever our peculiar medical diagnosis may be, are more [physically] representative of the Creatrette than polarized humans.

I am NOT an elitist, far from it.

I am a total wreck, a victim of physical and sexual abuse and exploitation.

Do I hate or resent polar humans? Not one bit. I love all humans as children of Hir.

All I am saying is, that one day, many people will be shocked to find themselves realizing that in their egos and vanities that they were way off base about so many things, beginning with the GENDER of their Creatrette.

Warmest regards,
Delicious Vodka DeBlair

[gratuitous link removed]

Originally posted by hawaiigurl
I did not want to say this, but since it has come up, I do not believe in the Bible, that is why I am asking. I am looking for facts of life that are not represented in the Bible. If you read the post, I have stated that I think intersex people are some of the most intellectual people that are born, but obviously you haven't, so next time you should read everthing before you post. I'm not judging, I'm just trying to disprove the Bible in my own way.

...that is fine love, you try disprove it.

As for the answer to your OP -
no, there are no created hermaphrodites by God.
But
soon, people WILL have a hermaphrodite nature : when the osiris dimension will start.
And that will show in this fallen physical frame, which s fabricated by evil
- and which is totally Unrelated to the original beings adam and eve had.

why?
- because evil [ fallen ones, who rule that dimension ] are themsélves hermaphrodite.

...as the egyptian head goddess Neith says, in the Pyramid Spell Texts :
"i am 1/3 d female...and 2/3 masculine".

..and since thóse will rule Humans by their auric energies, human will become hermaphrodite.

Dont think God is the same -
what wé perceive as male and female, does *not* imply "He is thus a combined dualistic being"

..that is utter Nonsense.

hope that helps.

- btw - be careful with saying things as "i ám spiritual but try reject the bible"
..please dont make a fool out of you with those kind of statements

regards,