This scares me..

The new 'Global Economic Meltdown Forum.'

Well not exactly into running around screaming.
But it confirms the fact that a lot of people are considering this a real possibility.

For the last couple of years it has been foremost on my mind,but I could simply consider it a pessimistic attitude towards people's but mainly POLITICAL greed.

Forcing a fear into the open is very sensible thing to do though.
Myself I have concentrated far less on working to attain financial security and far more on getting back to the 'basics'.. Survival in other words.

Somebody here in the UK,seems to be focussing towards KEEPING YOU INDOORS!.

Think about it.
Prohibitive fuel prices,tax,insurance,more fuel tax,cameras everywhere,can't smoke,tax drink.stupid new byelaws..etc etc etc etc.

It seems all they want you to do all day is sit and glue yourself to the idiot box.
Sucking up adverts for rubbish they want you to buy but can't afford..,then more ads for getting yourself out of the debt they co-erced you into getting in the first place.

Bigger TV,better resolution,new games consoles,faster net(which they want to monitor).online shopping.online friends,pay your bills online.

All the while..everything you go outside for,is being closed down to to lack of business..Post offices,clubs,shops,gyms.

Someone wants you to spend all your cash keeping yourself entertained INDOORS..

So..What don't they want you to see outdoors??What are they spending all your cash on?

What's going to happen when your workplace closes to to lack of interest too.
How are they going to fund you staying indoors?
Are they trying to kill everybody off with obesity and apathy?

One thing's for sure..it CAN'T last and they know it..So what's the plan?.
To do away with 'money'?
Instead,working for the right of access to food and warmth?..and the rubbish we've all been buying into..?

Have a think about what's actually in your house now,including your house...and whether or not you'll work as slaves just to keep it.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by AGENT_T]

reply to post by AGENT_T


I agree agent t, teens arnt allowed to hang out, children arent allowed to just go out and play, its all about keeping people glued to the goggle box. keep people separated, children are put in nursery from a very young age, they go to breackfast clubs, after school clubs, communities have been broken down, families live miles from each other...and so on, makes on think where our society is heading. I believe that human connectivness is being replaced with the isolated, consumer, disposable, dumbed down, such a far cry from what humans really need.
the only things I would become a slave for is my 2 little children, every thing else is not important.
m x

That's the scariest aspect of this.
They're denying normal human contact from an early age.

I was never at 'playschool.kindergarden/whatever' BUT from first school it was part of the 'process' of learning about human contact playing stupid 'catch-kiss' games..
Now they're classing it as sexual abuse and indecent behaviour.
For god's sake.. we were running AWAY from girls..not hoping for a 'bit of action'

Kids with a criminal record for giving someone a 'wedgie'
Is this their way of population control?

Again it seems to be heading towards a very isolated world of 'stay at home' except when you go out to work..to hand over your money to 'them' to finance making sure you stay at home.

There's going to be no work in the UK soon..certainly not in the public entertainment line ..Bars/clubs/social clubs/coffee houses/restaurants..as there'll soon be no-one going out to socialise.

All those 'mod cons' are made in cheap labour factories abroad,so those jobs won't be here.
Farming is a dying trade as they want to turn the countryside into one big slab of concrete.

All that's going to be left 'work-wise' is home-shopping sites and Police..for when you dare show your face outside.

Hello Agent T, I noticed you mention that you live in the UK, and it has just dawned on me that your complaints are similar to what is going on in the US, it makes me want to ask you questions, like is the housing market also going down hill there? I had no idea that your businesses are going the way of ours, which is out of the country, what country do you see yours going to? I am not sure of what your freedoms are based on, like in the US, with the Constitution, but do your oldest laws that deal with your basic freedoms seem to be recently changing as well? I will let you answer some of these before I continue. Thanks.

Originally posted by space cadet
Hello Agent T, I noticed you mention that you live in the UK, and it has just dawned on me that your complaints are similar to what is going on in the US, it makes me want to ask you questions, like is the housing market also going down hill there? I had no idea that your businesses are going the way of ours, which is out of the country, what country do you see yours going to? I am not sure of what your freedoms are based on, like in the US, with the Constitution, but do your oldest laws that deal with your basic freedoms seem to be recently changing as well? I will let you answer some of these before I continue. Thanks.

Space Cadet,

Our housing/credit/debt bubble is going the same way as the US market with one major difference.

Here it is going to be a whole lot worse.......!

Majority of people are still in denial about the housing market. Over the last 10 years we've been fed so much property porn and property has been used as an investment not a house that people simply don't believe housing can decrease in value. People think it will be a blip and everything will return to normal by christmas with housing rising next year.

Lots of my friends say yeah its different this time and not like the 90's there is low unemployment and low interest rates.

They are still in denial even when I point out unemployment figures are being manipulated. Interest rates dont mean a thing for several reasons over here:
1) Mortgage rates are determined by Libor NOT the BOE.
2) A small increase on a large debt is fare worse than a big increase on a small debt.
3) All housing debt over here is highly leveraged even more so than the US market.
4) If the UK banks are failing because of exposure to the US housing market just imagine what will happen, (and is happening but so far being well covered up) when the extent of their exposure to the UK sub prime market becomes clear.
5) An economy CANNOT be built on the illusion of wealth from the housing market.
6) UK does have a sub prime market its called buy to let and all those people that have lied on self cert mortgaes over the last few years fuelling this huge bubble.

The fast approaching economic train wreck will destroy this economy for at least the next 10 years maybe more........!

There will be sooooooo many people in financial slavery but they just cannot see it, heads still in the sand, still in denial.

Sorry if this took the original topic off topic for a bit but hope that answers your question SC.

MR

Originally posted by Marlborough Red
Sorry if this took the original topic off topic for a bit but hope that answers your question SC.

MR

Definitively not.. Starred..
This is a huge problem. People are burying their heads in the sand when it comes to facing up to the disaster that's gotta hit soon.

Very good post.

We are getting to the stage where immigrants coming here for a 'better life' are turning and going back once they see how bad it is.
The ones who thought they'd get an ordinary wage and send it back to their family where it becomes a big deal when converted.
They had no idea even basic accommodation is going to eat that up immediately,leaving nothing to send back.

Spacecadet.. People have been conned onto mortgages that are beyond their means.. lending is 6 x salary = max loan.

It used to be three and a half times standard..which was bad enough.
People didn't plan enough for higher interest rates

Now the worst will hit/is hitting.. Higher interest rates AND house prices dropping leaving a lot in negative equity.. They can't even sell the house to pay their debts because it's worth so much less.
Rents are increasing on council/housing authorities too.

As Marlborough said.. people buy houses for financial security.They think because they have a 1/4 million pound house they're rich..They're deluding themselves.

In the bigger 2012 phenomenon there's much more to be scared of then the lost of TP worth "money". When society crashes and a grand part of the population is dead, and you're taking a BM out behind a rock, you'll have a good laugh when paper money blows right into your hand for you to wipe your butt with.

Originally posted by Incarnated.you'll have a good laugh when paper money blows right into your hand for you to wipe your butt with.

That's pretty much all it's good for now.. Save buying a little stash of survival items.
I still wouldn't want the queen's head anywhere near my butt though.

Forget investments.. Back to nature time.

reply to post by AGENT_T



We'll not go back, nor will we stay here. The New World is coming and it foward. Let us not get confused by the term "New World". It has nothing to do with the boogyman some call the "NWO". Oh no, oh no.

Several cultures state this planet has has 4-5 "worlds" on it and the time for the new one has come.

Originally posted by AGENT_T

Think about it.
Prohibitive fuel prices,tax,insurance,more fuel tax,cameras everywhere,can't smoke,tax drink.stupid new byelaws..etc etc etc etc.

It seems all they want you to do all day is sit and glue yourself to the idiot box.

They can kill our way of life, but they cannot kill our creativity, Agent_T.

We can be the force of creation if we survive their demise, so it's less about trying to stop them from shooting themselves in the foot and more about preparing ourselves and each other to be able to weather the power-vacuum of their inevitable failure.

Ask yourself: In the case of political fallout, what do you think will be the attitude of countries whom have been treated poorly where nuclear weapons are concerned?

I imagine they'd want to know where those nukes are, and stop people from activating them and using them against other countries.

There are more reasons for an end to the nuclear arms race other than that they are a weapon to be used for death - they are a target for others if we ever became... unable to use them (like massive administrative failure).

It will fall upon the people to defend their way of life from the horrors of the modern world - those people who sleep soundly at night while soldiers pound the streets of Iraq under sniper fire.

It would be a difficult choice to make - to help protect the masses from the threat of invasion, or to try and help organise the masses into proceeding down the path of power.

It may well be the case that this difference in the way people choose to approach the Situation may bring them into direct conflict into each other.

One would think that those conflicts need to be avoided...

I had seen a show not long ago on Discovery, it was about Adam and Eve and the garden, and pointing out that in that story and the one found in ancient Sumeria ( Geldemesh or gelgamesh) the 'evil' is actually man turning away from a 'hunter gatherer' and becoming a trader/barterer instead. Could anyone imagine the whole world right now trying to be hunter gatherers? It is an impossiblilty. Yet that is exactly where we are apparently all heading, globally. Even if it never gets to that extreme, we are very close to the begining of such. A pretty grim thought.

edit= fix silly looking spelling mistake

[edit on 27-7-2008 by space cadet]

Originally posted by space cadet the 'evil' is actually man turning away from a 'hunter gatherer' and becoming a trader/barterer instead.

That's an interesting theory.
It kinda bears out the old 'money is the root of all evil'.

If it could be all done again with the knowledge we have now..would we make the same mistakes?

Stories of 'super-civilisations' like Atlantis always seem to bear out that you can only go so far with technology and commerce.
They seem to enable us to live far too long putting a burden on the youngest and strongest.
...
But taking a more 'biological' twist on the 'Eden' story.
Maybe we were intended to be propagated 'artificially'.. ie the forbidden fruit being 'natural reproduction'.
I was thinking about the 'painful childbirth' / 'punishment from God'.

Maybe we were somebody's test tube experiment originally and they knew the dangers of uncontrolled reproduction..leading to an overpopulated planet
Too many people unable to provide for themselves,too few resources to maintain everyone..

Both scenarios lead to the same result.
War is the only this that keeps our numbers controlled..
That we know of..

Originally posted by AGENT_T

But taking a more 'biological' twist on the 'Eden' story.
Maybe we were intended to be propagated 'artificially'.. ie the forbidden fruit being 'natural reproduction'.
I was thinking about the 'painful childbirth' / 'punishment from God'.

That would be an interesting twist, after all we do possess the inherent capability for modifying existing life in order to suit our needs, such things are shown when one looks at the way domestication occured in wild animals like the canine and aves species.

We've been playing god for quite some time now, it would seem that going back on several thousand years purely because of what some hyped up preacher says is the word of God says would be a reckless and somewhat self-defeating ideology.

I can learn to appreciate recklessness, it speaks of desperation in the face of adversity - like when your beliefs are being put on the line for example, but one must appreciate the fact that God has no real say in the matter of whether or not we seek to make things better for our fellow man, that right belongs to man and man alone.

Perhaps that is part of the lesson.

A lesson that will propell man into greatness, which is quite likely what the supposed 'writers' of the biblical texts had in mind when they were thinking about how to translate the word of God into something that will benefit mankind rather than hinder it.

An interesting twist indeed - it would suggest that Jesus was perhaps not some divine messiah, but a messiah of an entirely different sort.

A mortal one.

Perhaps, in his infinite messianic wisdom, he foresaw what was to come for humanity, and saw the questions facing a technologically advanced civilisation.

One can but wonder, as the truth is undoubtedly lost from the minds of men.

Of course, another way of looking at is would be to consider the fact that we are God's creation, therefore anything we Create has been made possible by God's Divine Wisdom.

Perhaps we've merely mis-understood...

As to your original point, Perhaps the difficulties we face now are no different than those that were faced by previous super-states that ruled large portions of the planet

This may be true of states like the Roman Empires, or the Mongolian Empire, but there are those that have prospered over time rather than devolved.

The Industrial Age would be a good way of marking those cultures that survived the transition between old and new, and perhaps it is this process we need to look to.

I have said in the past - rarely - that we stand near the beginning of a new epoch, obviously this would mean a great change (or attitude) of the general populace of those able to pass into that stage of existence.

Recklessly, i could say that the attitude of the masses in all important in the shaping of our world, that if negativity spreads and makes it's home in their hearts then progress will be difficult, if even possible, for the greater Humanity.

It may well be the case that we must take a step back in order to give the masses a chance to get their act together so we can step forwards in a proper manner.

Some problems, no matter how terrible, can be defeated with hope, and a little bit of patience.

War is not only the alternative of those who have exhausted all options, but also that of the insecure.

I don't think I could agree with the original post any more. I don't know whether it is indeed an intentional act or just a worrying trend. I often wonder if it's just convenient for business and marketers to have us being passive predictable idiots soaking up the ads at home.

I guess that wouldn't be so bad if the media most people are exposed to wasn't so stupid...

The one thing I will say against that forum and the 'meltdown mindset' is that it could turn into a self fulfilling prophecy when there wasn't an actual problem but we caused one. I feel the same way about 2012. It's almost as if something doesn't naturally happen people will try and make something happen, which is a worrying thought when you consider many of the theories riding on 2012...

I generally am a great proponent of the conspirital view of history - and at the extreme end of that spectrum as well. However, all this talk about the housing market collapse and the devastating effects; including possible economic collapse. (i thought i was making a conservative argument - now realizing that may not be the case...) I think some very old processes may be masquerading in this mess...
First off - the housing market mess. I see this entire issue (in the states as well as uk) is nothing more than the age old, "rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer". I've sat in LV, NV preaching to anyone who'd listen (next to none) about the real estate bubble burst. It's been far more drastic than I expected. Houses that sold last year for 250k are up for sale now for 150k. this is common place. What state are the consumers in? The poor that got sucker into buying high in the last two years are the bums with destroyed credit and lost homes, flooding the rental market. Then there are those in the middle like myself struggling to qualify for a loan because of the sub-prime reaction (e.g. I pay $1500 rent and have for two years. I cannot get a mortgage that would cost me $800/month). Then there are the rich. Gobbling up dirt cheap houses in cash and some even borrowing - since they are the only people who can qualify). So now the rich guy owns the house and pays a $700 mortgage - when the poor guy owned it, he was paying $1700. Sound familiar? Hmmmm... auto loans maybe? Or even something as mundane as bank fees - who can least afford to pay an extra $35 bank fee? Yep, the guy who is overdrawn. By keeping certain minimum balances, who pays no fees whatsoever - the guy who wouldn't even notice a $35 fee... One more just for fun... Say I'm a felon. I just served 10 years and am free. I'm ready to play ball in society and take advantage of a fresh start. Who is it harder for to get a decent job than an ex-Felon? Three months flippin burgers and I can't pay my $600 rent on my dunghole 1 room apartment. Guess who's gonna be flippin rocks instead of burgers real soon?

The whole thing is rigged. Kick 'em when they're down. Trip 'em if they're walkin. If they're skating on top the walkin dummies, give em a free first-class plane ticket so they won't scuff their new leather shoes on the heads of the other 95% of the population.

The economies will recover. and the poor will be poorer and the rich will be richer just like every other time.

Oh yeah - doom and gloom society collapsing, etc. - yep, focus on that. Be concerned. Get prepared! What better way to distract you from economic games and money grabs? Convince you that the system is gonna fail. Why invest your time and effort into a failing system right? oooooohhhh! PUNK'D!!!!!!

I'm gonna get a mortgage if it kills me - lock in my 700 payments and wait for the apparent final collapse of the dollar with a roof over my head. ...once again renters/poor are gonna get SKROOOOD! Persons who bought after the bubble burst will be paying pennies on their homes while renting their 2nd homes for 10's of thousands of worthless dollars per month.... but then the dollar recovers finally... and who has sucked up all the money during inflation? the wealthy land owners... again... NO! no! let me wake up! How many 1000's of years has this been going on?

I'm not 'verbal' cause I got nothin to say?

I'm so glad this is getting well thought out replies.
Thanks peeps.
-----

It feels like we are at the biggest junction in modern history.
Why is it no-one in 'day to day life' is noticing.?

There's so many people in denial it's becoming almost audible.

As I mentioned to a member earlier,it's the holiday time.. no-one is 'out playing'.
At the gym there was no-one.
The only kids who emerged was the queue for the ice-cream van.

If this is intentional control over the masses then all I can say it.. it's very efficient.

VK I'm inclined to agree with you here but with a twist..
If people keep foreclosing then there are going to be more empty properties than people who can afford them.
Easy pickings for a government to snap up and force their terms for occupancy.

Let's face it..who cares if the economy breaks and money is worth squat?.. if they have a contingency plan to force you to work for a roof over your head.