Easy Irrefutable Proof

I find a big problem with the H5N1 being touted as a possible pandemic, or for that matter even being responsible for any human deaths at all. I quote:

In order to even begin to say that a virus is contributing to human illness of any kind, you must find millions and millions of whole viruses in each patient. Otherwise you have nothing. You have no proof. You have no evidence. The mere presence of a tiny amount of a particular virus in a patient tells you zero about why the patient is ill. In fact, historically, the reason medical technicians started opting for pcr tests was: they couldn't find whole viruses in the patient at all. They couldn't even find one intact specimen of a virus. Not one.

-www.nomorefakenews.com...

Unless you can find millions of that virus in the person's body you cannot even begin to suspect it as the cause of death. However, in today's world of backwards science and public acceptance of official opinion that fact has somehow become lost.

I'm not meaning to rain on anybody's parade, I just want people to understand this very key point when researching this subject so that they can spot the obvious hoaxes (of which there are many).

DH

So I guess the millions that died from Spanish Flu in 1918 were all coincidences?

This seems like bad reporting. If someone has handled poultry, develops a major respiratory ailment and dies, then an autopsy shows it to be of the H5N1 strain, then is it not logical to deduce that this person died from Bird Flu, particularly when many others have died the same way?

H5N1 may be part of the big Influenza family but it is a very specific strain. It i not your common garden variety strain, a virologist can tell you when the body is or is not infected with it. I understand what your saying, but as TruthWithin said, it seems like bad reporting. H5N1 is already boarder line pandemic in the poultry world, it can mutate in amazing ways. It is simple to say that it is going to be a pandemic for humans. So far there have been around 400 deaths from H5N1 that have had autopsy's done on them in fast time so that we can see what it is like just after, now ALL all these people had the same symptoms when they were alive, and they all had the H5N1 virus present in them when the autopsy was carried out; So cant we say for sure that it was H5N1. One case of some one dying may be H5N1, it may not; but if a human gets infected with it for sure and it manages to spread from one person to another - well then we get super worried.

Fox

[Edit -- Upon Further Reading...

That article is from 2006, since then the FDA has carried out hundreds if not hundreds of thousands of tests on H5N1, some positive some negative. The test is being used today to confirm cases, for example There is thread in the forum were Vietnam have announced a case, the H5N1 strand was found there due to a test that was carried out. The article that your quote is from is incorrect about many many things and is very out-dated.

[edit on 21-7-2008 by ProTo Fire Fox]

The point I am trying to make is that if there are so few quantity of a virus in a person's body that upon examination you can barely find any then the virus was not their cause of death. It means they came in contact with the virus just as we come into contact with all kinds of things daily that our immune system keeps in check.

reply to post by Defiant Human


Yes but every single death that has been caused by H5N1 has had very similar symptoms. I understand what you are saying, and i think you are correct about this theory; but i think that this idea only applies to certain viruses, i do not think it applies to H5N1.

Fox

I'm curious. Does anyone know the racial characteristics of the victims of SARS and Bird Flu? In other words, can anyone give me a chart (links, I mean) such as this:

Asian X%
Black Y%
Caucasian Z%

reply to post by sir_chancealot


I do not have any precise figures, but it is a known fact that the majority of people who contract it are Asian. It is many because of they laws on poultry handling are almost gone. So it is many Asian and then to my knowledge black and Caucasian people are almost tied. Ill do some research and try to get back to you with a well researched answer.

Fox

Originally posted by ProTo Fire Fox
Yes but every single death that has been caused by H5N1 has had very similar symptoms. I understand what you are saying, and i think you are correct about this theory; but i think that this idea only applies to certain viruses, i do not think it applies to H5N1.

Fox

I would think that it applies to all viruses, however, I am not a doctor. It would be interesting to hear a medical professional with a specialty in this area weigh in on this.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
I'm curious. Does anyone know the racial characteristics of the victims of SARS and Bird Flu? In other words, can anyone give me a chart (links, I mean) such as this:

Asian X%
Black Y%
Caucasian Z%

That's an interesting question. I've read that the AIDS test is many times (8x maybe, can't remember) more likely to result in a false positive for African Americans.

DH

reply to post by Defiant Human


What does AIDS have to do with H5N1 ? AIDS is Acquired immune deficiency syndrome which means that it reduces your immune system to a point were it cant even hold its own against a common cold. H5N1 is very precise, if some one has died, mainly of respiratory problems, and enough of the H5N1 virus is present in the body, well then its obvious that it was that.

Fox

Originally posted by ProTo Fire Fox

What does AIDS have to do with H5N1 ? AIDS is Acquired immune deficiency syndrome which means that it reduces your immune system to a point were it cant even hold its own against a common cold. H5N1 is very precise, if some one has died, mainly of respiratory problems, and enough of the H5N1 virus is present in the body, well then its obvious that it was that.

Fox

The two diseases have nothing to do with each other, I was just mentioning that some tests can have more false positives for a particular race which I find very interesting.

DH

O right, sorry then i thought you meant something different. Silly me Any way; race does make a lot of difference to diseases nearly all cases of Sickle Cell Anemia occur in Black People, there are countless cases of mainly one race infections and diseases. to my knowledge there have been zero cases off false positives.

Fox

Influenza passes very quickly through the body. You carry it for a day or two before you show symptoms. The peak virus activity occurs when you just start to show symptoms. In just a day or two more the virus is almost entirely gone from your body. Most of the symptoms you feel are your body recovering after the virus has left.

Considering all this most people wouldn't seek care until the illness is very advanced. The flu has already done its damage. You wouldn't find much of the virus in them unless you tested them when they first get sick. Who goes to the doctor the moment you get sick?

Just simply understanding how the virus progresses it is very understandable that it is high to find high virus counts in people.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Influenza passes very quickly through the body. You carry it for a day or two before you show symptoms. The peak virus activity occurs when you just start to show symptoms. In just a day or two more the virus is almost entirely gone from your body. Most of the symptoms you feel are your body recovering after the virus has left.

Considering all this most people wouldn't seek care until the illness is very advanced. The flu has already done its damage. You wouldn't find much of the virus in them unless you tested them when they first get sick. Who goes to the doctor the moment you get sick?

Just simply understanding how the virus progresses it is very understandable that it is high to find high virus counts in people.

If the virus is almost entirely gone from your body then you haven't died from it (nor will you). The virus first spreads through the cells in your respiratory tract and then moves into the bloodstream (which is when you start showing symptoms). Either it continues to live and thrive and eventually kills you or the body kills the virus and leaves the antibodies. There's going to be a lot of it to find either way.