Who are we really?

Who are we really? And how can scientists not take the study of consciousness seriously? They just think that all of our actions come from our brain. Is my brain telling you that I am saying that scientists aren't taking the study of consciousness seriously, or, am I the one doing that? Are we really just a body and a brain? Don't we have some sort of mental projection of ourselves that exists independently from our brain that is not part of the physical image that everyone else sees? How are scientists ever going to understand the brain if they don't believe in consciousness or the soul?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Thats a good point, and philisophically I believe it is called dualism (the belief that the mind and body are separate).

Eventually, once scientists catch up and open their minds, they will see that spiritualism, although perhaps not religion, can be a great assett to the greater understanding of reality.

Well, if you tried to bring spirtuality into psychology it would make the study subjective and no longer objective because your views would take something concrete and make it metaphysical. Science usually tries to obtain things that are concrete not just theory. I can reccomend you to look at "The Principles Of Psychology" By william james, i read it a while back, he delves into alot of what you're talking about.

This also depends on what you believe in religion wise. If you believe in evolution than you would probably believe that consciousness comes from the brain for several reasons.

Dualist: One who believes the universe is made of both Mind and Matter

Materialist: One who believes the universe is made only of Matter.

Idealist: One who believes the universe is made only of Mind

(These terms as well as "Mind" and "Matter" have specific definitions in philosophy - not to be confused with more common definitions)

Very useful categorisations as far as it goes.

Here's a question

Are you a Homo Sapien or a mystical being?



[edit on 13-7-2008 by thepresidentsbrain]

Originally posted by thepresidentsbrain
Here's a question: Are you a Homo Sapien or a mystical being?

Good question.

I guess it depends upon your definition of "you" -- I take it that you are speaking to "me" and not my body.

Regardless, it is my mind that is responding. (My Homo Sapien fingers, typing away here, are helping me out.)

I would say that you and I are mystical beings. Our bodies are Homo Sapien, and we are currently trapped in that body for the duration of our lives. Perhaps.

I dont know about you, but I define myself as a droplet of consciousness in a vast ocean, individual yet connected to all, period.

I am not my job title, I am not my nationality.

By the very statement of someone saying "my brain" implies that an individual's consciousness is not just a function of the brain. Consciousness would seem to be a collection of information using a variety of techniques by the body and is a marvel of analog computing. But, we know that diseases like Alzheimer's and other brain diseases would seem to rob people of what most would consider to be their identity or 'soul'. I suspect that memory and self awareness originally started out as tools for survival in many respects. What's interesting is that even with a significant amount of damage, a human brain still can perform what I believe to be one of its most amazing functions; self reflection. To be able to think about thinking and recognize one's own identity and communicate this to others. Yes, there are some species of animals that can recognize their own image in the mirror but none can communicate that fact with any sort of language either to another one of their own species or to humans (as far as we can tell).

I often think of human consciousness as very much like the fragile contents of RAM in your computer. Ever start a word document, work on it for a while then lose electrical power? If you hadn't been saving the whole time and if there is no auto-save scheme, your information is lost forever. If you had been saving all along, you simply startup your machine again after the power failure and your information can be retrieved. Although if you 'unplug' a human, there is very little chance that they will 'boot up' again (beyond the approximately five minutes or so the brain can survive without oxygen). As far as I know, there's no way to make a backup of human consciousness like in the 7th Son stories. If there were, and once a true copy was made, the implications would be staggering. While artificial intelligence is already here, (while not in the Hollywood sense) and not measurably conscious in any way, it is still very impressive. Take the case of the new poker playing AI that recently beat some pro poker players in the news the other day.

Only until some kind of 'artificial consciousness' is developed will scientists take human consciousness more seriously. Who knows, by then it might be too late for the 'meat suit' creators!

Originally posted by synchro
By the very statement of someone saying "my brain" implies that an individual's consciousness is not just a function of the brain. Consciousness would seem to be a collection of information using a variety of techniques by the body and is a marvel of analog computing. But, we know that diseases like Alzheimer's and other brain diseases would seem to rob people of what most would consider to be their identity or 'soul'.

This is very interesting, and debatable. Since nobody here has Alzheimer's, and can speak about it first hand, nobody can say for sure.

I personally don't think that Alzheimer's robs you of your soul.

If you observe Alzheimer's in others -- one thing you learn is that these people are often in intense discomfort during this process. They are still conscious. They lose their memory -- a key part of communication -- but they don't necessarily lose self-awareness. (Who can really say?)

From another angle, think about yourself in an unconscious state. Are you souless? Or is it that you just don't remember what that state was like?

I often think of human consciousness as very much like the fragile contents of RAM in your computer. Ever start a word document, work on it for a while then lose electrical power? If you hadn't been saving the whole time and if there is no auto-save scheme, your information is lost forever.

The soul is not related to information processing.

If you have any doubt about my claim above -- pinch yourself hard. That pain you feel? It's not something that is rational or requires any concentration or logic to understand. It is not your body that is hurting -- it is YOU. It is your soul. It is independent of your memory.

Good reply, Synchro. I'm still re-reading and thinking about it.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I dont know about you, but I define myself as a droplet of consciousness in a vast ocean, individual yet connected to all, period.

I am not my job title, I am not my nationality.

I completely agree, and I like that analogy.

It may be just my wishful thinking, but it does seem to apear like many people are starting to realize they can reach higher levels of consciousness. Sort of 'tap in' to the universal consciencousness, etc.

I like to think of humans as chain links in which one link retains its properties, yet there is no chain unless many links are together.

My oura is stronger than most people. I may not have a human spirit. I believe I'm one of the higher beings. I can pick up peoples vibes from 100 feet away. I know so much without learning it because my spirit remembers.

reply to post by realanswers


Hello realanswers, I'm curious and I mean no offence, but if you have no human spirit then what do you believe yourself to be? you said higher being, but what does that mean exactly


and in response to the OP, We are who and what we believe ourselves to be. We can speculate for eternity but we will never find the answer to the question "Who Am I?" as long as we're looking elsewhere for an answer. We all hold the answers for ourselves, I can't answer it for you, nor can you answer for me. All we can do interactively, is share our theories just for the sake of sharing.
So I will share, I believe that I am a mind, a body, and a soul. All working as one, and all equally important. I believe these 3 make up every single individual. So to me, all 3 make up a single consciousness.

As for consciousness in regards to scientist, science and spirituality have been split for a long time, and as long as science adheres to the need of physical evidence to prove anything, it will never allow humans to understand everything, which is science's goal.

Hopefully when science catches back up, we can just congratulate them and not be asses about it. (When I say "we" I mean those of us who think beyond the physical realm.)

[edit on 16-7-2008 by kageryuu]