Swiss referendum on banning Islamic architecture, page 1

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:47 AM

link

Swiss referendum on banning Islamic architecture

www.brusselsjournal.com

Far right groups in Switzerland have collected enough signatures to force a nationwide referendum on banning minarets, the distinctive towers of Islamic architecture. In what is being seen as a sign of growing Islamophobia in Europe

(visit the link for the full news article)

Dermo

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:47 AM

link

Islamophobia? Switzerland is not in the EU but is this the beginning of European countries finally saying NO to changes demanded by the muslim influx???

Muslim tradition is obviously quite different and they do get a hard time in almost all EU countries.

"Muslims in the Member States of the European Union experience various levels of discrimination and marginalisation in employment, education and housing, and are also the victims of negative stereotyping by majority populations and the media. In addition, they are vulnerable to manifestations of prejudice and hatred in the form of anything from verbal threats through to physical attacks on people and property.
www.euro-islam.info...

Some nations have attempted to integrate Muslims into the broader communities without changing their constitutions or legal systems by respecting their religious laws through their nations religious freedom acts. The UK and france are prime examples of this.

Does the scaremongering (which is mainly as a result of US public opinion) cause the intolerance to muslims? Islam is a peaceful religion after all and i have never met any muslims that i can say were troublemakers or social parasites.

I personally feel that the religions and religious laws of immigrants should be respected as long as it doesn't cause any constitutional or legal changes in respect to dealing with cross religion problems etc.

www.brusselsjournal.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Dan Tanna

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:52 AM

link

reply to post by Dermo

Good, i support the swiss 100% in this.

Saudi, Iran, Yemen, Dubai, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, UAE... the list of countries where building aChristian Church is banned is a long one.

Its about time we repaid the favour. When they have as many laws defending Christians in their countries as we do for protecting muslim sensitivities i will consider my stance.

Till then, ban them from being any taller than a single story building, and forbid the prayer calls being broadcast from them at the same time until we hear church bells ringing out across saudi arabia and the middle east on a sunday.

Dermo

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:59 AM

link

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
Saudi, Iran, Yemen, Dubai, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, UAE... the list of countries where building aChristian Church is banned is a long one.
Its about time we repaid the favour.

I feel the same way.

Till then, ban them from being any taller than a single story building, and forbid the prayer calls being broadcast from them

I used to have a girlfriend that lived next door to a mosque in Dublin, they had asked the Dublin city council to be allowed to broadcast prayers through a loudspeaker...and were denied outright!
Could you imagine that? It would be crazy!

[edit on 16/06/08 by Dermo]

skeppo

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 08:11 AM

link

reply to post by Dermo

Thats fair enough, nobody asked them to move over to Switzerland. Go to islamic countries, do you see any churches? Do you think they would allow it? No so why should it be one rule for them and another for us.

kacou

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 08:32 AM

link

reply to post by Dan Tanna

Got married in a Christian church in Dubai.
A friend of mine is priest in a Christian church in Qatar.

Also if you claim that Iran has no Christian church then how do you explain this:
www.churchtimes.co.uk...
The Catholic Church has 45 priest in Yemen, they most be doing mess in a barn.
The same Church has 9,343 Catholics priest in f Kota Kinabalu (Malaysia).

Kacou.

RedGolem

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 08:39 AM

link

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
reply to

Its about time we repaid the favour. When they have as many laws defending Christians in their countries as we do for protecting muslim sensitivities i will consider my stance.

I cant say I disagree with what your saying. I do however think a buildings design should not be controlled by the government. Aside from safety standards and such.
I also am kind of wondering if this ban goes through if it will send a message to the countries in question to be any more tolerant? I doubt that will happen.
I however am also getting the feeling that with these attitudes that it could also help foster the one government world.

Animal

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 08:59 AM
link

Come on kids isn't the hate starting to wear on you. Dan Tanna I especially like how you make these claims about what can and can not be built in other Islamic countries with out even knowing the reality of the situation.Saudi Arabia is even currently in a dialog with the pope on having the first catholic church opened in that country. And by the way you do not support the "swiss" you support the far right faction of the "swiss government" there is a big difference, just like here in the states.

My opinion on why there is so much violence and tension between Islamic people and others is intolerance. Forbidding the architecture? Come on give me a break. Loud speakering prayer is too much but forbidding a design of a build structure seems to be highly intolerant and plea for conflict.

Dan Tanna

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 09:39 AM
link

yes, the first to be built in saudi Arabia.

Which means there aren't any at the minute. As for Iran, well lets have a read.

Churches and Christian training centers are routinely monitored and there has been widespread closure of these institutions by the Ministry of Islamic Guidance (MIG), forcing many churches to go underground.

The Armenian and Assyrian churches have been allowed to stay open because their services are conducted in the Armenian/Assyrian languages and because they have agreed to the government’s demands forbidding Muslims and Muslim converts from attending the church services and refraining from evangelism.

Circulation of Christian literature, including scripture in the Persian language, is banned. The office of the Bible Society together with all Christian bookshops were closed in 1990. Several Christian leaders,
mostly converts from Islamic backgrounds, have been executed or assassinated. The deaths which occurred in 1994 are particularly renowned and include Rev. Hussein Soodman, Mehdi Dibaj and Bishop Haik.

Iran +christianity

Wow thats real nice and friendly and open and free just like the west is isn't it... not.

Lets have a look at Dubai shall we ?
Christianity in Dubai

Free to practise within the compound. Thats the compound, not free to build Churches and spread the gospel around the country as muslims are free to spread the koran around the west.

When christians are as free in the Islamic countries as Muslims are here in the west, then they can say they are a tolerant open people. Till it is all equal it should be law that islam is as quashed in the west as christianity is in the islamic world.

RedGolem

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 09:47 AM
link

Originally posted by Animal
Come on kids isn't the hate starting to wear on you. Dan Tanna I especially like how you make these claims about what can and can not be built in other Islamic countries with out even knowing the reality of the situation.Saudi Arabia is even currently in a dialog with the pope on having the first catholic church opened in that country.

The Catholic church is in the unique position of being an independent country. There for they can negotiate as a country and if a church is built it will be given embassy status.
Read what else Dan wrote above. I think he has it about right.

Animal

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 10:58 AM
link

reply to post by Dan Tanna

Sounds to me like you want your cake and to eat it too. You condemn these countries for their behavior yet you are saying we should be have the same by limiting their freedom to practice their religion???

buddhasystem

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 11:13 AM
link

Originally posted by RedGolem
I do however think a buildings design should not be controlled by the government.

You are wrong. There are safety and architectural concerns, which the govt (local govt mostly) has to address. As simple as that.

Would a minaret destroy the arhitectural texture of a Swiss city? As a person who resided in this country for a long time, I can tell you "yes!".

As it is already, in Switzerland, you must follow strict regulations to get a permit to build most ANYTHING. I have no problem with minarets being banned. Not the first priority for that great country, for which I have an utmost respect.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by buddhasystem]

Dan Tanna

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 11:32 AM
link

Originally posted by Animal
reply to post by Dan Tanna

Sounds to me like you want your cake and to eat it too. You condemn these countries for their behavior yet you are saying we should be have the same by limiting their freedom to practice their religion???

Its called being fair.

They bleat on about how terrible the west is, how badly we treat them, how we deny them their human rights, how we use dirty unclean dogs to search their homes for bombs they want to use to force the west to bow down to islam...

.... and yet the middle east is an intolerant nasty little hole where gays and women are treated like vermin to be killed because 'allah' wants it.

A very free and tolerant lot they are too. They want, and yet never give.

I think either the west wakes up and sees this for what it is as a one way street, and closes the road, or they face destruction from within in the next decade.

See Bosnian war for what muslims will do to steal land.

SaviorComplex

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 11:41 AM
link

Originally posted by Dermo
Islamophobia? Switzerland is not in the EU but is this the beginning of European countries finally saying NO to changes demanded by the muslim influx???

What changes are those? A minaret is not harming any one any more than a steeple on a chuch is harming anyone.

Muslim tradition is obviously quite different and they do get a hard time in almost all EU countries.

This is a form of bigotry and descrimination; it is saying a certain type of architecture is not allowed because of who is putting it up.

Originally posted by Dermo
I personally feel that the religions and religious laws of immigrants should be respected as long as it doesn't cause any constitutional or legal changes in respect to dealing with cross religion problems etc.

Then why are you in support of this referendum? What law or part of the Swiss constitution does a minaret violate?

John82

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 11:45 AM
link

They should have the right to decide by democratic means what is acceptable in their own country and if people vote for it that's fine for me, if not that's also fine. If you don't like it don't move there or if you already live there cast your vote in the direction you favor.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by John82]

SaviorComplex

posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 11:57 AM
link

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
Its called being fair.

No, it's called "stooping to their level" and "hypocrisy."

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
See Bosnian war for what muslims will do to steal land.

What profound ignorance.

First, the Muslims living in the former Yugoslav Republic were no more responsible for stealing the land than you or I are responsible for stealing Indian-land in America, or the inhabitants of York are responsible for the theft of English land. They are not responsible for the sins of their ancestors, real or imagined.

Second, while certainly crimes took place on both sides, the majority of the crimes were committed by Serbs (Christians) against Bosniaks. Ethnic cleansing and rape-camps were an all too common occurance perpetrated by Serbian forces.