Islam will win

Originally posted by artvandalay
reply to post by Pjotr

 

very condescending....
please bring some substantial elements to your post, all i see is demagogy here.

Maybe it was a bit condescending. But I was caught by surprise by this thread, as it goes sometimes. But you are right, I owe you one.

The point is mainly that we are caught by all kinds of "facts".

I will start with where I come from.
1. I am non-religious. I think most religion is a vehicle for unscientific feelings that can be used and will be used by leaders to get what they want. That is what history shows imo. Religious wars are contest between the imaginary friends of groups of people.

2. So I am no fan of Islam or Christianity. If you compare the books they are both pretty violent. In Holland there is a website that compares Bible with the Koran and when you type in stoning, the Bible gives 24 quotes and the Koran 5. It does not say much, but it gives a notion of the shared history. I think that in its way and rules The Islam in certain parts of the world is still an infant. Violence for not following rules is abhorent and looks primitive to us. We institutionalized most violence and therefor think we are more civilized. But we still kill and murder.

3. There is indeed a number of Muslims that spread around the world for economic reasons. But for instance in my country (Holland) they are a minority with 800.000 to the 16 million people living here. A portion (half) thinks of themselves as islamic in a broad sense, the other half does not believe in Allah. Then there is a small group of orthodox believers and there were a bunch of idiots that would call themsleves Jihadist for a while. The murdered a filmmaker here (Theo van Gogh) and that guy is behind bars and the followers scattered and under eye of our Intelligence.

Polls and civil records show that the second and thrid generation of these Islamic Turks and Marrocans like to live like westerners. That is in luxury and with 1,2 kids (now still 2,5 kids) and no prevalent role of religion.

Once in a while you hear the stories of stupid members of this society that take right in their own (religious) hands, but that will happen.
We had extremist reformed christians here for centuries that would not give thier babies shots against the sickness Polio, so they had kids with screwed limbs when the disease was around. They thought this was an act of God. Is that cruelty or not?

My main point is:
As long as society provides welfare and shows that is this better to live like we do, people will adjust to, adopt it. When we panic and act fearfull and economic depression sets us up against each other thing might go wrong.
Just stay sober and take care of business. Don't go blaming other "groups " of people. That's what creates wars. That is what leaders use to rally you up and takes your focus away from the real stuff that is going on.

When you read this thead you notice that there is not much focus on rea facts and real people (like neigbours) but more on stories you hear on Fox and things going on soemwhere else. It is diffecult to build a sane image on that. Besides that it breaths FEAR and EMOTIONS. Then people shout "we need live executions". You see what happens. People are back in the Middel Ages and into their reptilian braincore.

When do people learn that emotions (reptilian braincore) suck big time. They are not worth anything. They are the big veil of untruth, and religion loves them.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by Pjotr]

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by q_ball
reply to post by artvandalay

 

Removed post which was "mannered"

Insults wow that's a real debate ender there....

The man may not be right but he has a point and is allowed to debate it no matter how hard it's for you to comprehend if he see's a growing problem and is highlighting the issue then why act like a fool denying it possibly can't be happening.

Make's me think if you where around back in the day when Gallieo was making his claims or Coloumbus would you of denied the world was not in fact flat???? Would you of believed whole heartly without question that earth was the centre of the universe even with evidence stating otherwise.....

Now in regards to this thread;

History also plays a part in this people are quick to jump on the USA's history of 'invasions' but quite rightly someone earlier sorry i forgot who it was i apologise but someone mentioned Charles Martel know i notice how no one's addressed that point.

Which is very very valid to the topic.




Mod Edit- Removed Quoted Post


[edit on 10-7-2008 by elevatedone]

Yea...


Our Western Goverments like to bend over for the Minorities, no matter who they are... but they are going the extra mile with the Muslims...

90%+ of Muslims are basicly good people, and are totaly rational...


Its that Radical 10% that we need to keep an eye out for...

Unfortunatly, it seems that that 10% is the ones who are pushing all the buttons... and our politicans are MUCH too eager to please them...

Even here in the US, many parts of it, mostly the 'Blue States' Like California, New York, are doing everything they can for them, but you are dead right that the True Americans will NEVER let a foriegn Culture and People overtake this country.




BUT You are forgeting the enemy that we are fighting, you are forgeting the Historical FACTS of Islam...

They are Choke Artists, they will snatch Defeat from the Jaws of Victory, dont forget this, never forget this...


Remember, a few can hold out against the Many, as long as they know WHEN and WHERE to fight.

We are fighitng an incompetent enemy, Europe is in trouble... but, like MANY times before, throughtout history, we will previal, and we will drive them back to the desert... just dont lose hope, and remember, its not a well orginized Majority that changes the world, but small groups of dedicaded people change history...

Here in America, its in our blood, from the moment a dozen guys stood up to the Entire Brittish Empire, we are an unwavering people, and we will never lose.

A bit off topic but for all those who reside in the great country of America, we are on the verge of electing a corrupted man who has been fed mixed messages his entire life. Both his fathers were raised learning the Koran, the American mind in my opinion is corrupted and will be America's downfall. Who will back our allies if we have a undercover radical in the oval office. Obama also has been mentored by his pastor/rev. for 20 years thus far. Reverend Wright gives money to the radical Islam group named the hamas, one of the many TERRORIST groups America is fighting against in Iraq. The title of "war against terrorism" should be changed to "war against the Koran and all its believers" 9/11 attacks should have been enough to show the American public what Muslims believe and the least of what they are capable of.

Also I have been searching for the old article pertaining to Wrights donations to the hamas in the bulletin link on the Trinity United Chruch of Christ look for yourself and if found please post because it will refresh my memory because i have seen it previously posted.

Every Friday in Iran there are flag burnings and marches against "infidels" islam is an angry and controversial religion. No doubt .

Sorry if i bounced around with the subject but I had to put in my 2 sense on the subject of Islam.

reply to post by artvandalay


Our Governements have sold us out, they have cheated and lied to us for so long now. The people in the UK are little more than slaves who are not allowed to think for themselves, speak what the y think without being called a racist! It has become so ridiculous that even the loony left are getting a little worried. The latest thing in the UK is: They want nursery school teachers to spy on toddlers! yes that's right - if a child shows any sort of dislike towards spicy food, that child is to be reported to the PC nutters and disgraced as a racist.

Islam has taken over the UK, there are Mosques everywhere and the Muslims are Demanding everything i.e. Sniffer Dogs must now wear booties if entering there home LOL!! Dog food factory cannot be built near a Muslim estate, No pottery pigs on show in your home. The list is so long I can write it all down here.

We have to put a stop to it!!! We have to fight this evil that is taking over our lives and our lands. I would very much appreiciate any suggestions!



Janis

People should use religion to get easy money . So much until the judges will no longer accept religious complaints

reply to post by the_one_below


You gotta change your picture, I would rather NOT read anything you write than llook at that

Anyone accusing this thread of ignorance and fear-mongering - come and live in Southern England for a few weeks! Islam is a religion and not a race, so to criticise it is not racism in any shape or form.

If you value your own culture - and you should (all the world's cultures and races are valuable and should be preserved) then Islam's grip on Britain can be seen as nothing but detrimental. Many shops have already stopped hanging Xmas decorations because it is offensive to people of "other faiths". That's just one small example.

This is a subtle re-colonisation and at this rate, Britain WILL be a Muslim country in the future. This IS a real threat and while it's clearly tempting for some people to belittle the issue and call it 'over-exaggerating', I'm willing to bet those people do not live in countries/areas with large Muslim populations like Britain.

People need to move beyond these ignorant religious differences.

If there weren't Islam or Christianity, we wouldn't have half the troubles the world is focused on today. Rather we could take care of the starving children in Ethiopia and equalize prosperity in 3rd World countries. No, we have to spend money to "Democratize" Iraq and Afghanistan. Who cares what kind of government you have as long as it works for the benefit of the people, be it Democracy, Communism or a Dictatorship.

People need to focus on love and caring rather than hate and greed and maybe we can have A LOT happier society. You can say, "But that what my religion is all about", but it's not. It's a book of rules that allows you to disagree with another group or following, thus creating differences and resulting in what we have in the world today. Maybe well intentioned, but a failed attempt to create a peaceful society. We'll never have peace as long as there is such religious difference.

There's probably a higher power that created this universe, but I'm sure He/She/It is hanging it's head in dismay at the ignorance we're exhibiting on it's behalf.

I have read most of this thread and I can say that it's mostly hate written here. First of all I suggest most of you who are saying that all muslims are bad should read the Koran. I have (and I'm not even a muslim) and it gave me an entirely different look on islam than the jihadist-conspiracy-theorists. The jihadists have (like many christian organisations do with the bible) just interpret it a different way than most muslims to suit their hate propaganda agains the U.S.
Second I suggest that people start talking to muslims who live near you (and yes there are). I have friends that are muslims and all of them thinks Usama Bin Ladin is a bad person.
Third, the illusion that I hear the most is that women in muslim countrys are suppressed by the men and that it's because they are muslims. That's wrong. Islam was actually the first religion that placed both sexes at the same level. It's not islam that oppresses women, it's culture. I had a disscution about that with a muslim friend of mine and he said that he would never hurt a woman or oppress her because she was a woman because the Koran forbidds it.
Muslims who move to other countries often try to follow the laws of that country and when they don't they usually end up in jail. At least they do it where I come from

And for all of you who are posting quotes from wikipedia and films from youtube for propaganda use against muslims, stop it right now as they aren't valid sources of information (that's my opinion after seeing hundreds of false propaganda movies)

Are you guys talking about in europe sense?? I am In america and I am a muslim I was born in america and raised in it. I am really mostly American I am not really religious.

All I can say is that muslims well educated ones knows the true religion.

In Islam it states that you can't force anyone to convert or anything.

In our religion for someone to convert they truely would have to agree too meaning they suppose to want to convert if they don't want to they don't have to you can't force someone too.

People that are muslim and are uneducated are the ones that are pushing and I have seen many in the UK and I think UK is really stupid to allow them too.

I agree to an extent on what you are saying but the religion itself does not permit these people for force everyone around the world to follow islam and the religion dosen't say to have world domination.

So it's just the people that are trying to convert everyone they are ignorant people and it's like they think this religions is the best becuase they follow it even though they are not really following it strictly. Otherwise they would know you will go to hell if you force someone to convert.

I have aunts and cousins that they think Islam is the best religion in the world and when ever they make certain statments I get pissed off becuse I know they are ignoarant.

Currently my famly don't speak to them because they turned greedy.

These people are just trying to make their actions legit just to protect themselves.

If you really study Islam you will then understand what I am saying and you can see many ignorant people that don't know much of the relgion but was brought up by ignorant people so they bealive that where ever they go people must follow islam else they will go to hell.

Every person that are ignorant and religious would think if you don't follow their religion then your going to hell.

Because if you notice every religion has their own rules and if you don't follow those rules it's often said that your a sinner or going to hell ect.

So if you think these people are trying to spread Islam and make Islam dominate the world.

Then look at the U.S their are people at church cristians that preaching the muslims are the devil and they need to be burned back to hell.

Now I can say hmmm I think christians want to take over the world..

but is that statement right??

just beacuse a huge nubmer of preachers and cristains may think this way dosen't mean the religion tells every christian to burn ever muslims because they work for the devil.

I am just saying every religion has their own religous nuts.

People that make their actions justify by using religion to justify it.

I don't think it's true.

I also learned form a board form which I got kicked out off for saying I am paki.

Paki in the UK is a bad for for pakistani people.

However in the U.S it's ok and I even use it every pakistani people in the U.S and in Pakistan don't mind to be called paki.

However in the UK the people that were born and raised in the UK would kill you if you call them paki it's like saying the n word but it's towards pakistani people.

to me I think it's really stupid for making paki a bad work when really it is a short word for pakistani people.

Well I am just saing Islam is not going to dominat but I do agree the UK is selling it's own people out.

I do agree to some point with you guys but don't agree on Islam world domination.

I really think if you think that then you must be stupid and educate yourself on Islam before making these statments. The reason is that it's not true but yes in the UK the uk muslims are uneducated so they are doing stuff that they shouldn't and I do agree the UK gov should stop them instead of giving into them.

I hope I don't get anyone upset or anything but these are my opinions and hopefully these people get educated before forcing others to become a muslims.

-double post-

[edit on 10-7-2008 by August Sonereal]

also my opinion on osama bin ladin.

Well I don't think he is a bad person.

here is why I think this and please don't get upset.

I have been told that osama bin ladin is from a rich royal family form saudi arabia. He is really rich. His family knows the U.S gov and are good friends. So Osama knows about every meeting and what the U.S wants/ talks with their family. He found alot of stuff that the U.S wants to do that is wrong like killing innocent people ect.

Osama bin ladin is really religious. So he didn't like what the U.S wanted to do so he decided to fight back.

He is in pakistan in the mountains fighting the U.S he is in caves camping out and he is also paying people and feeding people who join his group.
He is living in very poor conditions he can easily be living in a big house and living like a celeb but he is not.

He knows stuff that we will never know because it's under the covers.

now about jihad what the word means is if you hear/seen some that is wrong morally speaking. Then you must take action.

Now what it says that if you have the money and have the will meaing your single and have the ability to use the fire power then you can use it only in a situation that only this will be the last resort and you have the ability to do this. people that can't afford to use fire power then would at the at least help the wounded if you can if not then you must protest it and if you can't afford doing that then you must in your head not agree to what the person is doing.

what I mean you can't afford I mean not just money wise also means the what could happen to you when you do those actions.

This could mean if you have a family and you use firepower you can die or be hostage, or go to jail.

This means that you really can't afford to do such a think because you will have your family to suffer if your the main incomer ect.


So osama bin ladin and jhid think the U.S and Isrel want's to dominate the world they want to make a world order.

Now why they think this?? well we went into Iraq killed suddam and then we took over Iraq we now own Iraq.

The Iraqi oil fields are now owned and invested by american companies.

Our type of government is now in Iraq democracy.

They truely think that the U.S wants to enslave the world. When I talk about enslave I don't mean butting shakels on people. I mean the U.S wants to control every thing, the money where it's going and recording every transaction in the world to be able to tax people from the U.S that now work and live in another country. I know for a fact since I am in college studying federal tax laws I know for a fact if you move to lets say Japan or china and make money there you have to report that to the IRS in the U.S they will tax you. These are some fairly new laws that were established in 2003 which was mainly put in for companies that wanted to give jobs to overseas. No just that american companies were moving alot of operations to other countries to make it cheaper for them to produce a product.

I am just saying these are some things they are aginst and that is some part of why they are fighting against us.

When they say death to America they are refering to kill the U.S policies in the local area. Which on the american news like cnn they are saying that the death to america means they want to kill freedom and kill americans because they hate us. ect


Just telling you why they are agaisnt ameria.
You should have at least 3 new sources one from America and one from the enemy news and then the third would be a country that is not involved at all meaning they are not allies to america nor the enemy.

This shows that media are controled by governments in every country.

it's to brainwash the people to make the countries actions justifyable.

Originally posted by the_one_below
reply to post by August Sonereal

 

Perhaps you should watch this video
www.youtube.com...

So what, they're burning a flag, and its a SMALL MINORITY of Muslims doing it. Doesn't mean nothing except that some people hates America (go figure)

Seriously, we aren't really "bending over" for Muslims, we are trying to settle things, allow them our freedoms of choice but many will not accept that of us.

The reality of it all is, it's going to end up bad, these guys are waking up the wrong people. Americans were fast asleep, many Europeans still are. We have a society that allows us comfort, most of us do bend a bit backwards to not give up the comfort. What seems like fear to them is not fear so much as "aww g-d I don't need this" they are going to continue to nudge us awake, and that sad thing, they are doing it in Europe, they are doing it in China, another wrong group of men to wake up.

I almost feel bad for what's going to happen to the mideast, almost but not really, these people have numbers but not educations. I can't imagine a world in which a first strike terrorist attack hit's the US if something bad really happened, or to Isreal

Sorry but, your typical "idiot American" has alot of schooling, a third of our population could figure out how to make simple biological weapos, there are 100's of Thousands of us that could build dirty bombs... Terrorist Attacks? How many airlines are there in the states? How many Planes,

How many guns do we own?

Every Child grows up playing war games, it makes them lazy fatties now lol, but that fat 20 year old American kid, playing shooters and who owns guns in rl and has sat on strategy combat simulators taken college level physics and biology, played with flight simulators, that fat lazy American without food for a few days or dope to calm him down or looking at a dead mother... 90 days later that fat little american and a handful like him could destroy a city when pissed enough...

Fear them winning HA HA HA, just don't want to get up off the sofa... and like Hitler in ww2 they might get a chance...

But how far will it all go? Because Europeans and North Americans are genuinely aggressive, a real territoriality exists under the surface in me I know that... if push came to shove and our regular military was pushed back and our government thrown by Islam, If a wierd religion was accosting me in my streets...

Well, I know my education, I know what I know, I know what my neighbors could do, I know what I could do. These imbeciles are forcing a type of man to his feet that was very comfortable, they have forgotten because they burn books, so they don't know what we are capable of, particularly united. I'd almost feel bad for them, almost, but not really, because I never wanted to deal with this situation.

Spit on me in the street lol, I'm not french i'm American, Allah help your poor ass and the five guys with you, I grew up in Brooklyn, I laughed when I read the "they gang up on you 5 at a time post" Pal, I have had this done to me and... I didn't loose the fight, French Boys need to buy a good American Aluminum baseball bat, these fellows part like the red sea when I walk at home in NY, the laws have been made stricter you have to "exercise tolerence" lol, lol There is no Law in a riot, know what I mean?

America built the A bomb in a few years 60 years later Iran, it's whole brilliant nation is still trying... lol I'll bet you a handful of Jewish student from any university in the States could do the job in months...

This isn't even a contest, Allah help them they keep pushing their culture down our throats, may the Mahdi be real for their sakes because everyone of us has it in us, given the westen education, what would happen would be horrific.

They just, really wouldn't like it if Americans and Europeans started thinking like terrorists... really shouldn't be pushing the buttons and plotting these kinds of attacks and making us feel uncomfortable in our neighborhoods and intimidating our children and trying to destroy our various cultures...

They could get that first hit, we are bending over backwards and they are taking advantage, but it's the way it works that when you bend too far back something breaks, they would be wise to halt it here and now.

There could be no victory by the 2nd and 3rd worlds over us, cultural takeover... It's such a stupid plan, they will be nuked at home and surrounded and out numbered the remainder on our soil, this isn't even a war, if we were of their mindset we could vaporize all 1.5 billion and have 98% of our missile defenses intact when finished...

This has gotten to a point I can only compare to a situation I had in 3rd grade, at the time there was no special ed so we had this retarded kid in the class and he would, take my blocks and bite me a couple of times and was too aggressive... and retarded, I was told for months "he is special" "he can't help it" "If you hit him you'll get in big trouble mister"

After about 6 months of this he bit me on the shoulder behind me in line up, it startled me and I reacted... I spent the year in detention... the whole year because I hospitalized that little tard, he lost his grown up teeth, he broke his wrist, you couldn't see his ugly face with those stinkin close together eyes when I was done, it took 3 male adult teachers to pull me off...

Don't get me wrong I never fight, but it's always there in me, it will never go away... 6 months of ruining everything I did making my 3rd grade world a hell to live in... same applies to Europe and the States in regards to Islam... hard to say what the spark will be... but political correctness will die in a single moment when it's lit, you can feel it...

The crazy thing is, it's already so irritating the government is actually starting the fight lol, people fear this? OP you fear this?

I don't think that I'm ever even going to have to fight because my governemnt is already all over this and where they aren't from all communities Black White or other...so many guys harbor this reaction, far harsher then me, guys went crazy in NY after 9-11, I was still in "tolerance" mode mentally and people were ready to tear the city down to flush them out of it...

I don't think i'll ever even get a chance to fight if it goes to far, I might never have to get off my sofa.

How much would the typical American take? Spit on in the street? sorry for me that's an instant fight, numbers count for nothing either, That's life in the inner city in America, you come back strapped.. seriously, we aren't f'n French



[edit on 10-7-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Originally posted by the_one_below
reply to post by August Sonereal

 

OH GREAT! That's what would make the Western World look good world wide, a massive witchhunt.

Well I think the time for what would make us look good is over, it is time for action did you not read the thread? They are taking over right now can't you see that?

So, you don't care that Americans engage in a bloody witch hunt against all Muslims? Muslims have only one real country and thats Iran, so they're not taking over.

reply to post by computerwiz32


Osama bin Laden isn't a bad guy? Considering he runs a group of extremists that butcher civilians, I would think otherwise.

Hmm...spam...all I can say.
Palestinians are about 47% christian and so are lebanese...so that makes....Hezbollah a defence force for....Christians...mmmm Christian Jihadists?
Who killed 80 million american Indians?
Who kiled and banned Jews from their countries?
Who colonized and enslaved entire continents?
Who has the biggest weapons of mass destruction?
Which late US leader said that the war in Iraq was a crusade?
Who claims that Jesus won't return until the four corners of the earth will be protestant (catholics are not christians according to people that spam this forum)?
Who claims to live in a free country but wants to nuke the world and execute muslims?
Who chased christians from the holy land?
Why did so many chritians survive in the middle east but all Muslims in Europe (Spain and Italy) were executed and forced to convert?
Which religious text says: "Beware Muslims that he that says I am a Chritian is amongst those closest to Allah"?
Which religious text says: "Beware Muslims that oppression is worse than slaughter"?
which religious text says: "If you have non mulsims living around you, you may entice them to convert only by means of taxing them"?
which religios text says: "You may marry only among Jews, Christians and mulims and Jews and Christians need not convert"?
Why does Bush wage war against progressive, secular and mixed Christian countries while favouring Wahabi's that are the only real source of extremism in Islam?
why did the USA attack geddafi when he was purging radicals and allowing its people to live a westernized life?
Which countries have higher ratio's of female university graduates? (Clue they are all muslim)
Which countries continue to only allow freedom to have sex for women but not freedom to earn the same wage as men? (clue..not mulsims, not even saudi arabia does that!!!)
which countries have high ates of female wealth? (Clue..not christian but yes Muslim)
Hmmm, I am an atheist but I read the Quran in english twice, Italian three times and I also read Libya's authorized translation.
This post is spam because people on this site are usually informed so people don't give up on ATS, these posts only reflect the political inclination of some secret service agents that spam forums, wikipedia and social networking sites. Honestly pick up a copy of the Quran and remember, Allah hates murder but he despises oppression more. Therefore Christianity survived in large numbers in the middle east whereas it was exterminated by the crusades.
If the media wasn't owned by J's Brits wouldnt even know Muslims existed besides channel four exposed the fabbricated stories by the British press regarding British Jihadist...So do I beleive these people actually beleive what they are saying? No as far as I am concerned this thread is spam and ATS should do something about it. This thread does not reflect ATS users view, it is fabbricated.
Honestly facts don't hurt.
Expand your mind, you are killing Christians in the middle east too and none of your papers are uttering a word.
Hezbollah defends the half christian nations of palestine and Lebanon....from who?