Knife Crime UK - What's going on?

reply to post by Morrigan


Your right about the burst thing. The solution I've heard that makes sense is changing lunar patterns.

[edit on 7/7/08 by PeaceUk]

I think there is something! That particularly affects mens violence - family men. I remember in the 80's here there was a long string of men killing themselves and their entire families... about 8 in a row in a short period of time. It was also the recession tho.

But still...... always makes me think. I also notice that marital problems seem to happen to my friends all at the same time often with the wife whinging about how angry and grumpy their husbands are.

Perhaps its the mobile phone towers *places tinfoil hat firmly on head*

Lol who knows?
I think it has way more to do with cultural problems than anything else. Seeds were planted a long time ago and unfortunately all these problems we're having are just the flower they grew into.

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369

Originally posted by Boniouk06
giving everyone a gun? thats a bit silly. there is still some crime which is just holding up a shopkeeper u know... that wud instantly turn into a murder coz of the criminal knowing that the shopkeeper had a gun (he wudnt mess about, he wud just fire straight away), i dont think thats it at all.

Throughout history there have been bad people. so i dont think you can stop bad people from existing and wanting to cause trouble. SO identigy them, and lock them away.

Absolutely. Give everyone a gun. Everyone is born with two fists, and you can easily kill someone with your bare hands. Your hands are a potentially deadly weapon, just like a gun. If you won't kill someone with your fists, you won't kill someone with your gun, either. The key is gun education. If everyone is exposed to a gun at a very early age and taught proper usage and safety, there wouldn't be any gun fear and gun accidents would be minimized. It's not silly at all. The key is education.

As for the "instantly turning into a murder" reference, the criminal in almost all cases WOULDN'T rob the shop since he knows the shopkeeper and all the customers in the store were packing. It would be a suicide mission. If the criminal gets killed in the process, I say good. One less scumbag we have to deal with, and no BS money wasted in the legal system, either. Cheap, efficient justice.

You won't stop bad people from causing trouble. That's why I'm all for guns for people. Since bad people will ALWAYS cause trouble, the good people should have to protect themselves. That way, the bad people are the ones being killed, not the good people. Everyone owning a gun HURTS BAD PEOPLE and HELPS GOOD PEOPLE. Some of you guys let your fear override your common sense.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by ChocoTaco369]

You mean the kind of society where there is no law and people defend themselves. Hmm let me think about this for about a millionth of a second. Are you mad or have you forgotten your history. The society you are talking about is the very one we in the west grew out of a hundred or more years ago. Granted with less powerful hand weapons. Third world countries haven't yet and have more powerful weapons. Oh look what happens gangs controlling society....DUH!

Anyone "good" whi thinks they can protect themselves in that kind of society is in serious need of a reality check.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed


Lol cool it lads don't turn ATS into an argument station. You do both have valid points though.

Originally posted by jackinthebox

The only thing that longer sentences does is raise taxes. No sense disarming the bomb after it's already gone off. When people are happy, they don't commit crimes.

Actually I believe there's a lot of sense to it. A society that sees people who transgress punished appropriately is one that feels a sense of security, it also re-inforces values and ethics held by said society. Part of the malaise in the UK today is the general populace seeing crappy people doing crappy things and not being held to account. The effects on society in general - and this is something those calling for more liberal approaches and rehabilitation over punishment just don't seem to get - are incredibly demoralisng and undermine the community psyche. In short the liberal and the criminal they champion are jointly playing the part of the wife beater, inflicting abuse or stepping back and allowing it, and at some level trying to make the victim take the burden of blame In this case because they're part of the society that 'disinfranchised its youth/its poor/it....feel free to fill in the gap. We're all guilty - apart from the one who committed the crime.

Whether this will stop all crime being committed - of course it wont, but weighed against the paltry re-action of the justice system to criminal acts this is hardly surprising. The main purpose of prison is to remove the perpetrator from society for as long as is deemed fit. And if it's murder, casually carried out he deserves life - meaning life - arming the public, sure when we finally come to the conclusion that the police and courts and govt are unwilling or incapable of protecting the rights of the decent and law abiding, but that's when we're on the road to anarchy and I'm hoping we're a ways away from that.

reply to post by asala


It's not just the media. That's an accusation we hear quite a bit, but it's untrue - as anyone who lives in an area heavily affected by violent crime will no doubt tell you. I've seen the change with my own eyes over the past 10 years.

According to an A&E Doctor who appeared on a recent Channel 4 documentary about the subject of stabbings, in London he dealt over 300 stabbing incidents last year alone. However, as Hospitals have no duty to reprt these to the Police, they don't appear on the crime figures.

Across the entire UK there have over 14,000 stabbing victims admitted to hospitals in the course of a year. 14 thousand.

One thing that disgusts me about this whole issue is that Cherie Blair (now reverting back to Booth for public appearances) is cropping up as a champion of the need to address the problem of knife culture - yet when her husband was Prime Minister, it was his policy of politicising the Police force, and forcing the judicial system to adopt an attitude of political correctness which treatened criminals as victims, which fast-tracked the growth of the culture required for violent crime and anti-social behaviour to flourish.

We are today reaping what Tony sowed, Cherie.

That's almost to easy a question. If you can't get a gun what is next to use. The knife is almost a perfect weapon.......silent, many more ways to hurt someone with a knife than a gun, can be easy to hide on your person. It should be called edged weapon cause ANYTHING sharp can be used as a weapon...box cutter, any razor, etc.
This is nothing new, the Turks all carry knives and have for decades.


Later

The chances of dieing of a knife homicide in London any given year are around 1 in 270 000 (that's one in 96 million a day, why you don't see knife murders every day) . I extrapolated 26 murders per year per 7 million people, actual numbers may vary and I'm sure some smartypants will want to do the math different, but the point is it is hardly something to be worried about, especially if you recognise the high danger environments and avoid them. As usual there is much media based fearmongering and little or no substance. Most people are good and murderous intentions are very very rare. And people actually able to overcome their genetic inhibitions and knife another human are even rarer.

I have said it a lot, and I'll repeat it, fear is a control mechanism, the elites want the subjects, ie, taxpayers, to be afraid and pay for protection, ie, pay for state control, and for that they have to keep people unaware of the fact that there is little to be scared about. The biggest killer in england is old age.

So relax and see it for what it is, a very marginal problem.

reply to post by Cantwara

A society that sees people who transgress punished appropriately is one that feels a sense of security...

Security is a figment of your imagination. A false sense. With all of the laws in place, all of the cameras, all of the intimidation, you still don't fell safe do you? Were the Germans "safe" living under a totalitarian Nazi regime? Or the the people of the Soviet Union under Stalin?

"Safe" doesn't exist in government hands. Only you can guarantee your safety, or die trying.

...police and courts and govt are unwilling or incapable of protecting the rights of the decent and law abiding...

Incapable is the word. The system does not "protect" you. They come to clean up the mess after someone has been robbed, raped, or killed. Twenty-four-hour surveillance and the death penalty for littering won't change that.

reply to post by PeaceUk



Hi,

The situation here in the Uk is getting worse. we need more of a no tollerance policy, as in New York. We are controlled by 'politically correct politicians and police', we have the highest level of surveillance cameras in the world ( one for every 14 of the population), and run away crime. Soft policy on 'real criminals' ( in case they infringe their 'human rights', and rampant multiculturalism and MASS immigration all contribute to the UK's sortry state). This government have not a clue. Instead of gaining points for chasing easy policing targets (such as prosecuting people for leaving the wrong sort of trash can out on the street) then need to re-think their priorities for targeting the dangerous criminals. The british people are getting very sick of this situation.

The solution here is so simple. Bring back capital punishment. If you stab somebody you should be stabbed to death yourself, if you decide to stomb on someone's head and kill that person the same will happen to you until your head splits open and you spill. This will get rid of the scum of the streets, you can't kill again if you're dead!

We were all teenagers once, we were all bored and looking for something to do. It never for a second crossed my mind to stab somebody because they were looking at me the wrong way or not showing me "respect".

I don't believe that knife crime in UK has increases in any significant or dramatic way in the last few years, what has changed is the amount the media reports it. If you listen to the news carefully they will often mention (as an afterthought usually) that violent crime in general is down. If we suddenly have a knife problem why has this not translated into higher statistics of violent crime? As i have a distrust of media agenda i tend to judge things by my own personal experience and in mine, being a UK citizen living not far from London i have never been attacked with knife or otherwise, i have never witnessed a stabbing or even a mugging, i know of one situation where people i know have been involved in knife crime in my entire life and that situation was certainly not random (An argument with some car clamper's that escalated into something more). The impression the media give is of hooded youths carrying meat cleavers and machetes randomly attacking mild mannered citizens randomly, IMO this is an incredibly rare an unlikely event and the majority of crime with knifes is probably committed between groups of or individual morons fully expecting that kind reprisal. So why does the media hype it so much? Well let us look at who might benefit... 1.) The conservatives - they can openly criticize the government for allowing such a situation to arise. 2.) The Police - more powers, possibly opening the doors to arm the UK police more (normal pc's with pistols? < NO thank you! Im sure there are other groups who would benefit from hyping this issue, but IMO this is a classic Problem - Reaction - Solution, typical manipulation.

reply to post by citizen smith


I carry a pencil or a pen with me instead of a knife, its very easy to stab someone with a pen and if the ink injects in the blood stream am sure it would kill?

Kids will find ways to get the next thing, the young kids going about killing each other is because no one cares and are from broken homes. They don't want to work because they feel it is fake, why should they work from 18 to 70 with no hope and then die? they don't want that. The reason they do it is because they know life is short, so they aren't going to let anyone else spoil that for them. They know its competitive world, but you have to do anything to get money really these's days and theses kids refuse to work to a government. These kids are very intellgent and know what's going on.




[edit on 18-7-2008 by deathpoet69]

reply to post by deathpoet69

Kids will find ways to get the next thing...

Indeed. And here it is...

Knife on sale that can freeze victim

reply to post by Gandi



In my opinion knife crime is just a symptom of a wider problem of violent and anti social behaviour, that is spreading into all areas of UK society.

There have been two fatal stabbings in my area this year but there have been numerous gang attacks where people have been severely injured or died. Usually the attacks were completely randomn and unprovocked, occasionally they were preceded by a slight altercation, ie, someone asked a gang of yobs to stop behaving in a certain way.

The point I want to make is, I walk to work every night, and for the most part I experience very little in the way of violence, intimidation or threat but the fact still remains that these attacks are taking place regularly in my area, high lighted by word of mouth or reported in the local paper. Because I haven't seen it does not mean it doesn't occur, add to that the fact that I now take steps to minimise personal risk while travelling to work, further makes evidence of my own eyes no good guide to the reality and risk that IMO is now a concrete fact of living in the UK.

I've honestly forgotten more stories than I can remember now and as far as I'm concerned that's not a good place to be. And remember you don't need a knife to kill or seriously injure. The media moral panic argument is a cop out, crime and the brutal calibre of it's execution has become far worse.

am 25 years of age, i am alot mature now however i have been there and done it. I talk to kids who are in gangs, they are very aware of the goverment and the curroption, theres been a devide in there genreation with there familes etc so there looking for attention.

These's kids are alot more emotional. Its harder for someone to understand if they never been in that type of environment.