What is your personal idea of Patriotism?

This thread is in response to the idea that patriotism is established by society with rules of conduct and order. I believe that each citizen is responsible for his/her own patriotism and it is his/her choice on how to express this.

Good old Wikipedia has this to say about the subject,

"Personal patriotism is emotional and voluntary. The patriot adheres to certain patriotic values, such as respect for a flag.

Governments promote an official patriotism which has a high symbolic and ceremonial content. It is a logical consequence of the state itself, which derives legitimacy from being the expression of the common good of the political community. National monuments, and veterans days and commemoration ceremonies are typical examples. Often official patriotism is highly regulated by protocol, with specific methods for handling flags, or specific pledges and displays of allegiance."

Patriotism relies heavily on symbolic acts, such as displaying the flag, singing the national anthem, participating in a mass rally, placing a patriotic bumper sticker on one's vehicle, or any other way of publicly proclaiming allegiance to the state. Symbolic patriotism in wartime is intended to raise morale, in turn contributing to the war effort. Peacetime patriotism can not be so easily linked to a measurable gain for the state, but the patriot does not see it as inferior.

While these definitions are fine, i would like to hear what the ATS community has to say about Patriotism and how it personally affects you.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by redbarron626]

my idea of patriotism is:

the selfless acts of individual men and women that are dedicated to their nation as a whole. some acts are good some acts are not so good. the dedication to a flag in my view is the dedication to the ideas and symbols that flag stands for. the american flag to me represents all the brave men and women who gave their lives for the ideas of a free world.

I'm not real sure how to describe Patriotism but I know what it isn't.

It's not blind worship of Authority.

Starred and flagged. This is especially the season to contemplate these things.

Patriotism is supporting your country ALL THE TIME, and supporting your government ONLY when it deserves it.

(Okay -- Mark Twain said it first.)

Good post.

just another divisive man made concept. as per usual, a short term solution to a long term problem. drawings on a map and flags, but in the end, if you're a prick, you'll be the same prick no matter where you're from. same road, different car.

But at least I'm not bitter!

[edit on 7/3/2008 by schrodingers dog]

my patriotism isn't found in the flag. it isn't found in a song or a government, in baseball or in hotdogs.

my patriotism is in my heart. it is the understanding of what these men shed their blood for.


it wasn't religion or race or a flag or a song or a even a piece of land that they willingly gave their life for.


it was so that WE could live free from tyranny. so we wouldn't be left to the rape and injustices that those in power would impose on us.

it was a freedom that left us responsible for our own choices and to suffer the natural consequences there in. it was the freedom to experience which is what was intended for us to do by our creator.

my patriotism is in understanding that what we were given by our past fellow citizens WAS the "holy grail" that so many have sought after; the liberty w/ in ourselves to decide what would become of our own personal life w/out imposition by authority OR anyone else. the freedom to make my own choices as i see fit.

you can't buy that for any amount of $$.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Just another divisive man made concept.

That is a question all by itself. Is patriotism something completely artificial? Or is it something that goes deeper -- perhaps a fundemental emotion that humans share? Maybe something akin to what a pack animal feels -- something necessary for human survival?

My answer: I think it is an instinct, with specific environmental triggers. Unfortunately, some of those environmental triggers might be misinformation. But other, more reality based triggers, also exist and should not be discounted.

My idea of Patriotism is saluting the Flag that my Grandfather and Father fought for. It is the eating of hot dogs and ice cream cones at a 4th of July picnic. It is seeing the delight of my nephew when the fireworks go off later that night. It is the teardrop that comes to my eye when i hear The Star Spangles banner sung at the beginning of a baseball game. It is the deep sadness in my heart when i watched my father weep like a child standing at the Vietnam memorial. It is the moment when you look around at the crowd around you and realize all these strangers are actually your brothers and sisters, your fellow countrymen.

My Idea of Patriotism is also a defiant stand against Tyranny and oppression, even if it is my own Government causing said tyranny and oppression.
It is going out in the streets, and online to discussion forums like ATS where viewpoints are argued and the ability to disagree with anything is possible.
It is fighting and if necessary dying for what I believe!
It is in my heart but separate from my soul. My soul is my only true possession.
It is these words, written to emphasize that my Patriotism is not, under any circumstances, to be questioned by another!

While patriotism can and has led to some honorable and inspiring events in the course of human history, it has also spawned the worst atrocities known to man.

Patriotism, like any other 'ism' is an affectation of behavior, often used as an excuse to justify action which would have been taken in any event.

It can be a shield deflecting judgment by the weak willed or optimistic and faithful follower.

It is a true 'neutral' aspect of emotion, which makes it possible to exploit and control. Unfortunately I disagree with the Wiki on this. Patriotism is, in terms of individuality, irrelevant. It only matters in a social or cultural context, therefore it is not a simple emotional 'voluntary' thing. It can be compelled by social pressure. It falls under the same heading as 'school pride' and 'fraternal loyalty' making a tool of peer pressure and coercion.

The true American patriot knows that he neither has to explain nor justify the devotion he has to his nation, his community, his neighbors, nor their collective well-being or freedom.

reply to post by Buck Division


agreed, just like everything else, it can be used as both a sword and an embrace.

Patriotism must be an American thing.

Here in the UK or England to be more precise we swear allegience to no-one. We are individuals.

Patriotism is a load of jingoistic b****cks in my opinion.

My personal understanding of patriotism is that it is similar to the desire that people express when serving their community.

You protect those closest to you from people who may want to take advantage of them.

At least, that's how it works with civilians.

reply to post by Wotan


Living with my Geordie GF for the last 4 years and visiting England many many times leads me to the conclusion that patriotism is not missing from English society, rather as you stated, it resides in the individual! love you Brits.

Originally posted by redbarron626
This thread is in response to the idea that patriotism is established by society with rules of conduct and order. I believe that each citizen is responsible for his/her own patriotism and it is his/her choice on how to express this.

Good old Wikipedia has this to say about the subject,

"Personal patriotism is emotional and voluntary. The patriot adheres to certain patriotic values, such as respect for a flag.

Governments promote an official patriotism which has a high symbolic and ceremonial content. It is a logical consequence of the state itself, which derives legitimacy from being the expression of the common good of the political community. National monuments, and veterans days and commemoration ceremonies are typical examples. Often official patriotism is highly regulated by protocol, with specific methods for handling flags, or specific pledges and displays of allegiance."

Patriotism relies heavily on symbolic acts, such as displaying the flag, singing the national anthem, participating in a mass rally, placing a patriotic bumper sticker on one's vehicle, or any other way of publicly proclaiming allegiance to the state. Symbolic patriotism in wartime is intended to raise morale, in turn contributing to the war effort. Peacetime patriotism can not be so easily linked to a measurable gain for the state, but the patriot does not see it as inferior.

While these definitions are fine, i would like to hear what the ATS community has to say about Patriotism and how it personally affects you.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by redbarron626]

I believe that patriotism, as far as America goes, should be the protection of the Constitution.

America is not defined by a song (national anthem) nor is it defined by a flag (confederate or otherwise). But we are defined by freedom, and that freedom is fully expressed by our Constitution ( more than a piece of paper President Bush).

The Constitution does not change, national anthems and flags do. I hate listening to these people in an uproar because some black woman sang a song that describes freedom for her. Then these same people feel ok about things like the patriot acts, it is quite aggravating.

reply to post by dalan.


i understand what you mean. the whole idea that someone is patriotic bc they salute to a flag or sing a national anthem is laughable to me. if that were true, then president bush WOULD be considered a patriot. these things were merely expressions of ppl's hearts who understood what this country symbolized.

hey, my nat'l anthem right now is rage against the machine "take the power back."

it was a concept that our founding fathers died for, not a flag or anything else tangible.

in fact, wish more ppl would research the history behind the pledge of allegance......... yet another illusion w/ a purpose........ here is one link for those interested

www.lewrockwell.com...

[edit on 3-7-2008 by justamomma]

Great thread to make redbarron!

It's a hard thing to give a definition to, and as I read the responses, it means many things to different people.

I don't know of many people, in any country, that can be 100% proud of what their government is doing, or has done or will do in the future. But I don't equate patriotism for one's COUNTRY with your agreement or disagreement with the policies of your country's government.

2 completely different things to me. Country is the collective "people" that make up the country and not the government.

I am for the most part, proud of the people that founded this country, that toiled to make this country what it is, and continue to do so and to the men and women that have served this country in times of crisis, war, disasters both economic and environmental... And that goes for the armed forces, the firemen, the policeman etc, your neighbors, whoever. I can rant about this country on "issues" but I'd never want to live anywhere else, and am supremely grateful I was born in the U.S.

The elected officials have nothing to do with patriotism and most of them only give lip service to the term "patriotism" on either side. I would go further here but it might get political and too far off topic

Starred and flagged, I will enjoy reading everyone's posts on this thread, thanks for making it!

[edit on 3-7-2008 by LateApexer313]

Patriotism to me is the love of and willingness to defend my country and its foundation; my commitment to the Constitution and preserving the rights of all Americans.

Patriotism has nothing to do with the current government.

I don't participate in any of the ritualistic and symbolic DISPLAYS of patriotism, simply because anyone can put on a display. There are no magnets on my car, but I support the troops. There is no flag pin on my lapel, but I LOVE what the flag stands for.

The government would preach nationalism and call it patriotism, but I don't buy that. They're 2 totally different things.

reply to post by justamomma


Excellent post a star for you. I want to also make clear and I have said it in other threads also. Following your government blindly without asking questions or standing up to it is not patriotic like many would claim. That makes you a sheeple and we have WAY to many of those in this country right now.

reply to post by dalan.


Another good post. Even though I disagree with you on the black woman in Denver. Its the idea. The idea of America where people can have ownership. Where they can be free to choose what is right for them whether its good or bad. Where when you work for something you should get to keep it or trade or spend it how you choose. The idea of America is the best in history in my opinion. But I do feel we have fallen a long ways from the original idea. So much that true freedoms to most people are considered as unrealistic to achieve. Someone on TV the other day when was talking about repealing the 16th Amendment was told to get back to reality. For 130 years this was the reality. Grrrr dont mean to rant.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by mybigunit]