Is it possible that all the seeming political corruption in the World is due to COMMUNISM?!

Communism sure had a powerful impact on the free world. It was hard to beat down, and caused a lot of unfair wars such as Afghan, and Vietnam, Korea, that are now coming back to haunt us.

For the first time in 50 years, America is setting out to free the world from tyranny and save it from terrorism. But this time, because of the problem of communism and the actions taken to thwart it, America is catching flak, as people believe the move on Iraq is just another scheme to make money, and the War on Terror is a scheme to remove all our civil liberties.

I blame all this on Communism, if there never was a communist threat, or the soviet union, and the only recent threat to arise would have been ONLY the Middle Eastern problem.

Everyone would be enlisting now to go and defeat evil once again.

But everyone is instead devided, as they are all suspicious because of the past wrongs that were done, in the same name of FREEDOM.

Sincerely,
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It is due to a disbelife in Satanism. People have forgotten the warnings about this.

[Edited on 4-1-2003 by All Seeing Eye]

My God, man, would you not be so simple-minded and read up a bit? Have you ever even read a book in your life?

Communism as an actual political system is nothing like the practises we see today or anywhere in the past 75 years. The principle of communism says that everyone works together to create a better society; no-one is given special priviliges and everyone is guaranteed at least a decent life. The reason it has never actually worked is because humans are by nature self-oriented and will always trample another to get something for themselves. That's why it was doomed to fail.

What we now see is not communism. It is a pseudo-communism that in fact exploits the weaknesses of the masses. Most so-called communist states are just holding up a despotic regime (North Korea, for example) that uses propaganda to make the people believe that all is well and constantly improving (read Orwell's Animal Farm or 1984).

I would also suggest that you learn more about the great, holy United States. The government whitewashes everything they do and limits the amount of information you are given and you never really know the whole story. You should research a little bit further rather than letting your eyes glaze over as you pump CNN and FoxNews into your brain.

The political corruption in this world is not due to "COMMUNISM?!". It is due to human corruption, plain and simple.

[Edited on 5-1-2003 by SassyFella]

No I am sorry you are the Bimbo Sassy, not us "illiterates"...

...the only form of communism to have ever existed on this earth was back before empires nation states and even city states, back some 5000 and more years when people lived off eachother, before there were wars and scarse resources.

The closest modern society has EVER come to communism, is FEUDALISM. And while I'd love to be a Feudal lord, I don't quite think the rest of the populace would love to be my vassals and peasants.

And if you don't believe me, let us look at Feudal society.

Feudal lord owns everything! There for since no one else owns anything they can't very well NOT be equal.

So what's to keep the feudal lord from being unequal might you ask? Ahh but in here lies the catch. While the feudal lord basically owns everything (LAND) he still does not own the people (contrary to belief) he owns the peoples land and in return for getting the land back they give him their "fealty"....it's a wonderous system.

Even the common peasant who owns nothing, has nothing to fear, because he never has to worry about wars....unless of course soldiers burn their houses and chop them up, but other than that, their time in military service is extremely limited, so their near enslavement has a good benifit, no premature death due to political strifes, which of course is supposed to be one of the goals of Communism.

So as you can see I think Feudalism would be a wonderous system, as long as I'm king, or at least a lord, that way I can insurrect and probably end up king.

Hmm so I suppose since Communism's close buddy Feudalism isn't so bad, I might as well be a communist, so long as I'm in charge.

That way I can determine the best way to produce goods and make war. Let us not worry about the workers, they are all equal robots, send them off to die at the gun or plow it matters not. All that maters is we are equal, which we are...we all shed blood the same, but me of course, but that's ok I'm equal like the rest because in turn for everyone working for me, I give them work.

That's all that communism can be, or we'll just be tribes believing in magic and knowing nothing of machines and technology.

Sincerely,
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Communism became a reality for the most part as a result of the abuses of the Capitalist system. Its interesting to note, how is most countries in the World. The Industrial Revolution meant 16 HR shifts and when new technology came along. To replace human labor so many people were fired that it helped begin in the Great Depression.

The problem with communism is that it assumes that Greed can be taken out of the human equation. As in the works of Skinner and Pavlov (Pavlov's dog). Mankind can be conditioned to accept whatever social engineering adheres to, by applying operand conditioning.

Personally my impression is that communism and capitalism of acted to deter the other from abusive behaviors inherent in each system. Personally I feel our real problems are with 21st century feudal lords. Or at least the mentality (worldwide) that struggles to maintain that form of world order.

What are your thoughts?

PS: Keep in mind that in China there are 100,000,000 Moslems who a percentage of which support a return to a feudal system. As far as the Arab Nations and the Russian Republic again there is a percentage???

The government whitewashes everything they do and limits the amount of information you are given and you never really know the whole story. You should research a little bit further rather than letting your eyes glaze over as you pump CNN and FoxNews into your brain.

I hate fools who always say to those who believe in America that they watch "CNN and FOXNEWS" for your information I don't watch TV OTHER!!!! Than Sunday evening cartoons, futurama and simpsons and such, and an occasional movie.

You should research the history of COMMUNIST nations before you say America has been less than forth coming with information to us.

Hell our government even tells us when and where it is performing military moves, I bet you we'll know when we're going into Iraq days before it actually happens! Which is more than any other nation ever got.

Communism won't work on any scale, above that of communal farm towns. But don't you GET IT!!!! Rural America IS or at least WAS just like that, until industrialization came.

What marx failed to see, is industrialization made the worker obsolete, now we must find our comraderie elsewhere.

Sincerely,
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we might as well drop this its been argued hundreds of times on these threads, fact is theres a vocal percentage of yanks who have a bug bear in the shape of communism and, whilst the rest of the world has moved on and realised that its an ideologically sound system even though its practically impossible to implement, theyre still checking for reds under the bed.

its just retarded cold war paranoia clung to by people who still think we should be in vietnam and have a problem living in a world where russia's a respected allie.

get over it allready.

Lupe that statement is ignorant, and only opinion, it doesn't even in any way represent Americans, I for one think russia is great and is DOING great.

Your socialism is not a viable system as I've said before any ONE system never works. You must have a sliding scale, which America does and I don't know about the rest of the world most of them are all wrapped up in ideologies now.

Sincerely,
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It is due to a disbelief in Satanism. People have forgotten the warnings about this.

Please understand that the image presented by Christians of Satan is not unique. It is based on the images of Gods of Fertility as well as Gods of Harvest from other culture's. I can understand that all of us should not engage in negative behaviors or acts. But in relation to the issue specifically of Satan its seems more like something borrowed and something blue. This meaning that an inherent relationship exist between Christianity and Satanism, one which implies mutual interests ergo they suport each other.

i also say drop it our people have educated him...

"For the first time in 50 years, America is setting out to free the world from tyranny and save it from terrorism."

I would laugh it was part of a comedian show. American been all over the world installing new dicators, nothing diffrent now execpt you doing it publicly and installing "democracy".

Really i can't get that statement out of my head. Wtf are you thinking, that american is a nice country thats only concern is to help all small countries that can't act on it's own. Can't understand i am the only that have reacted on that one

Hello granQ.....

The US in relation to W.W.II did not attack itself in Pearl Harbor. Neither were the events at the World Trade Center the result of American Pilots trying a new method bargaining methodology in relation to salaries.

Despite all the retrace this planet is not populated by either angels or devils. So perhaps the next time some idiot decides to attack American land he will think twice. This because on the two occasions it has happened in the last 100 years the United States has gone to war.

And yes your right granQ they have conquered and placed leaders who support the American ethic. But if they had started it that would be another issue.

Since they did not attack first, whoever did is responsible like it or not.

Originally posted by Toltec
And yes your right granQ they have conquered and placed leaders who support the American ethic. But if they had started it that would be another issue.

Since they did not attack first, whoever did is responsible like it or not.

on many occasions, they did 'start it'. whether it had anything to do with them or not.

Echelon Vietnam began as a result of the effort to remove the French. Korea in relation to incursions by the North into the South. The Bosnian issue the result of abuses against the Moslem population and finally it was the Saudis who asked for help against Iraq.

This covers the major issues of the last hundred years, There was of course Lebanon and a recent matter in Africa as well as a skirmish in a small island and the Cuban Missile crisis. When exactly are you claming the US "started it"?

"America is setting out to free the world from tyranny and save it from terrorism"

What you need to realise FreeMason is the USA ( not america ) IS both tyranny AND terrorism. Like someone else said here, you need to read a little before making silly theories.

This is the US Army definition of Terrorism..

"the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious, or ideological in nature...through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear."

Now if this isn`t what the US government isn`t doing at the moment I don`t know what is....
changing governments around, "regime change"
Issusing mainly fake terror warnings around the US!

www.worldnetdaily.com...

Read this guy`s stuff, he is one of the best known and respected polictial thinkers, he is american so he isn`t anti-american but not happy about how the US trys to control the world.

monkeyfist.com...

eRnie you surely are an (Deleted) to believe the sh.it you just spoke of, trying to prove that the US is terrorism!?

Don't tell me I have "stupid theories" communism was the evil of this world that needed to be cleansed and we still are seeing its effects.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 12-1-2003 by All Seeing Eye]

Ugh and that Chomsky guy is not much better, I was reading through his "anti-american?" statement and stopped when he compared the USA to the Soviet Union.

He says, that the "anti-american" label is no different than the "anti-soviet" label...and frankly it's sickening, that anyone would say a nation as free as America, is anything like the Soviet Union.

Chomsky is trying to back up false information that he can't prove, by saying that contradicting him would be supporting "Soviet Totalitarianism"....what an A$s.

I think the Political Science teacher Paul Davis at my college here, whom is still a Terror consultant and had been an analyst for MANY years, knows far more about why we are going into Iraq, about why Israel is in a pickle and why we support it.

AND about why Communism will never rise in America...is by far the more trust worthy man than this "linguist".

Now as I've said before, there is nothing wrong with questioning Government policies internally, but there must be more patriotism involved in foriegn affairs.

Chomsky, is a Linguist, who has obviously never been to the Soviet Union before Gorbechev was in power, whom has obviously never been to Israel.

All he does is write books about "possible reasons for current events" and the media eats it up like moles eat their own feces.

How do you think Thomas Jefferson would react to contemporary American government?

Chomsky goes on to say "With disgust" but I'll tell you how George Washington would have reacted.

George Washington would have flattened the Middle east like he did the whiskey rebellion, and the Iroqois indians.

I don't even think Thomas Jeferson would be "disgusted" he'd probably be all for smashing Iraq, a nation that kills its own people, and is trying to spread that death with WMD research.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 7-1-2003 by FreeMason]

Okay folks, step right up and hear the words of a man who speaks mostly just to hear the sound of his own voice!....

Seriously, did you even read what I said? On both occasions when you replied to my post you neither addressed my point nor did you manage to prevent yourself from flying off on a meaningless tangent.

I need no history lesson on the principles of feudalism, thanks. I can't see why you went to such great lengths to make comparisons between it and communism; I wasn't asking for a poorly-constructed case study. Feudalism was a city-state system where the common-folk lived as vassals to a head of state. The head of state gave protection and secured diplomatic alliances in return. What possessed you to draw a parallel to communism in response to my post when I was making absolutely no reference whatsoever to post-20th-century examples of communism? (By the way, if you're referring to European feudalism, no, I the commoner would not be fighting your battles. You would be hiring mercenary armies. Read up a bit more).

Since you didn't understand the first time: Communism is not the root of political corruption since it is a system that depends on the good intentions of humanity. Unfortunately, humanity's good intentions produce too little fruit to see communism succeed, so we conclude that communism is not the solution. However, to act as though "communism" is the root of great evils only serves to direct the pointing finger of accusation at a political theory, rather than at the self-serving ways of humanity.

We as a race will always produce horrible tragedies and awful circumstances; it is myopic and thoughtless to blame it on a political theory, a region of instability, or any particular leader (Bush, Saddam, whoever). Even to point to pre-Gorbachev Russia is a lame tactic since it hardly describes enough of the situation to make it of any use as evidence for your point. Russia, before the communist revolution, was even worse off than "pre-Gorby" Russia; a monarchy and an aristocracy kept the millions in destitute poverty, and communism was the biggest sigh of relief that they had ever known until then. They even had considerable prosperity for the first several years once things settled down, but things quickly went downhill; again, not because of big-bad-communism, but because people got tired of working for the common good. Like every other human being, they wanted to have more than the system could offer, and things crumbled.

Oh, and by the way, the way that you open your replies to other peoples' posts (by lambasting them and name-calling) only makes you look like a moron.

C'mon and show a bit of class. We can have a respectable (if not friendly) debate here.

I'm sorry sassy, I did address your points that pertained to this topic. You see most of your points were merely telling us how we are illiterates and how America sucks and lies to us so I thought I'd ignore that banter, and target the "Communism today is not how it is meant to be" crap that people such as yourself whom have never lived in a communist nation, tell yourselves.

Communism, was built as communism should have been, the fact that it failed so miserably is a testiment to how crappy of a system it is when it is the ONLY system in place.

Moderation is needed, communism is too extreme, and too dependant on "revolutionist" spirits, to be stable.

but because people got tired of working for the common good.

I beg to differ, there isn't a more proud and hard working people (except for the Japs, and chinese, well most asians) than the Russians. They make us Americans look like lazy slobs, of which most of us are.

The problem was Russia, being the communist nation it was, was unable to focus its resources where it needed to go, transportation, too much of the resources were being diverted to public works, statues, and to building the "empire"an army.

(By the way, if you're referring to European feudalism, no, I the commoner would not be fighting your battles. You would be hiring mercenary armies. Read up a bit more).

Perhaps you should do a little reading yourself, and maybe you'd discover that a lord or king could call into service any commoner he so wished for up to and no more than 80 days, after which he could leave the service of the king and return to his fields.

These peasant armies were mostly fodder, and had little to no armor, and the weapons were mostly crude farm tools or hand-me-downs from elsewhere.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 12-1-2003 by FreeMason]

[Edited on 12-1-2003 by FreeMason]

And I think the point of this thread was neither well put nor well understood.

I'm trying to say that it is possible that all these turmoils today, is do entirely with the struggle between America and all of communism, mostly the Soviet Union.

The turmoils are: Anti-Americanism on a grand scale, terrorism in the Middle East mainly supported through weapons given to 3rd parties by the Soviet Union, Vietnam which really blasted Patriotism in this nation to hell...and so on.

Not so much that Communism is a plague infesting the world, but more as the actions taken against communism and like-wise, have really thrown global politics into a looney-bin.

Sincerely,
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