John McCain- "I really did'nt love America until I was deprived of her company"

I was watching MSN news today and I came across this video, take a look, it is pretty much self explanatory.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

The point here is, Senator Obama is constantly questioned for his patriotism, and for his wife's comments(which seems to have been taken out of context)- whether fairly or unfairly, I can understand why people would be apprehensive, because he is new to the political scene and we need to know who he is and what he stands for- But yet why does John McCain get a free pass- because he served in the military he is untouchable? it seems unfair to me- I dont think we can judge the man by the few sound bites, but he is very clear about the way he feels.

Comments anyone?

[edit on 21-6-2008 by InTheFlow]

[edit on 21-6-2008 by InTheFlow]

I had no idea he said that.

In a way he is getting a free pass so far, but honestly I understand exactly what he and Michelle Obama meant. Hell, even Laura Bush understood what Mrs. Obama meant so I seriously doubt the other conservatives waving their arms around in anger are too thick to get it.

Look, I've been to a few places outside of my country. Some I liked some I didn't. There were times when being in some of those places I didn't like made me realize how much more I appreciated the things I took for granted. I suppose in a sense I loved my country a little more.

I can only imagine how much more intense that would be when held as a P.O.W. in a bamboo prison cell and having your body broken and beaten.

The whole idea of questioning these candidates patriotism...and oddly enough in Obama's case his very citizenship is just the wrong way to go. I know both love their country or NEITHER would be running for President. Did they have times when they didn't feel that love? Sure...there were very hard times in American History that hurt many peoples...deprived them of rights...and yet we evolve.

It should be natural...and is a part of what most of us who are honest enough to admit it, have gone through at times.

Anyway...nice find.

Thanks,

- lee

[edit on 21-6-2008 by lee anoma]

I'm for democrats, yet, I do not see anything wrong with that. Those loud patriots who advertise their patriotism 24/7 are the first ones to fail when country is in a great need.

You only truly start to appreciate freedom and this country once you loose them

I think he was just trying to say he didn't know what he had till it gone.
I know what he meant. little old man is actually nice.
Too bad Obama is gonna win you'all!!!

that little old man don't have a chance!

reply to post by 5thElement


If you would have said that in the Political Ideology Forum, I would have given you an applause...

Simple and exactly to the point...

That is what we need more of.

Semper

reply to post by InTheFlow


I totally understand what McCain meant and what Michelle Obama meant. And yes, the media (and the right) are giving McCain a free pass. How dare Cindy McCain come down on Michelle Obama for saying something so similar to what her own husband said? That's disgusting.

I'm sure some on the right have all kinds of reasons for why John McCain's statements were totally different than Ms. Obama's.


[edit on 21-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by semperfortis



Done and Done




I don't mind the statement that he made... it was exactly that, He realized what he had once it was gone.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You know my stance on mccain v.s. obama, BH

So please bare with me. ( I assume this is the obama comment?)

Mccains statements are different from M.Obama's because Michelle Obama was saying she can finally be proud of her country based on skin color assumptions.

Her comments, in my eyes, were saying "white people are finally stopping their racist ways"

atleast thats how *I* took Michelle's comments

and i completely condemn her attitude, 110%.
But this isnt an election for Michelle Obama. Its for Barack Obama. And despite his choice of a wife, i still support him, over John McCain

[edit on 21-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

[edit on 21-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Mccains statements are different from M.Obama's because Michelle Obama was saying she can finally be proud of her country based on skin color assumptions.

Really? Tell me, where in her comment did she mention or allude to skin color? Here are her comments if you need something to refer to:

"What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something -- for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. I've seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic common issues, and it's made me proud."

Her comments, in my eyes, were saying "white people are finally stopping their racist ways"

atleast thats how *I* took Michelle's comments

Interesting that you would glean all of that from comments that didn't even mention race or racism or white people... I wonder where all that stuff in your head (and your eyes) came from.

and i completely condemn her attitude, 110%.

Which attitude is that?

I am willing to admit one thing, ahead of time, if it can be proven true:
I could possibly looking too far into her comments.

Here is how i came to my conclusion after evaluating her comments.


She talks about being proud for the first time. Okay, she says its because of hunger for change. Change from what? political structure?
There have been other candidates in the past who share obama's views. You know im a obama supporter, so bare with me.

It has to be "political change" i would assume she means, since she is the wife of a politician. So why is she not proud of the civil rights legislations that have been passed since the beginning of her adulthood. Why is she not proud of anything that has happened up to this very date? Lots of wonderful things have happened admist all the crap that we've dealt with.

So, in my rationale - she is not talking about political change, because there really is nothing different going on here...maybe some things are different, but over-all its still the same ol democratic ideal

So then i got to thinking, what is the only real thing that has "changed" since her adulthood up to today?

That a black man is running for president and has this much attention is the only conclusion i could come to.

Again

It is possible that im looking too far into it. Though i woudl accredit that option to the fact that she leaves her statements so vague, that it really is impossible to tell what she truely meant.

I associate her comment on this with the whole Rev. Wright thing. I associate it with baracks speech on race, and with Barack and Michelle, repeatedly saying "only in america, can a black man do what im doing"


thats how i came to my opinion about Michelle Obama's "finally proud" speech.

It still doesnt change my opinion of Barack, however.



I'll try to put it in.....easier to grasp terms (because i sometimes find myself rambling on and on on on on on ......)

this is going to sound silly - so try to understand the meaning of it

we all know that superman stands for truth, justice, and all that feel-good stuff.

If superman gave a speech that said "im proud of what i do, and i do it because criminals deserve it"

you would immediately think he's talking about "crime-fighting" when he said "what i do" because you associate his vagueness with what you've seen him do, and heard him say, in his past.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
So why is she not proud of the civil rights legislations that have been passed since the beginning of her adulthood. Why is she not proud of anything that has happened up to this very date? Lots of wonderful things have happened admist all the crap that we've dealt with.

That's like asking, "Why did John McCain not love his country before? Why did he dislike America? There's always been things to love about America. He joined the service. Why, if he didn't love his country"?

And I can't appreciate the way you put words in her mouth and thoughts in her head and by process of elimination, determined that she was speaking in code about something racial.

That a black man is running for president and has this much attention is the only conclusion i could come to.

Hey! That's something to be proud of! I'll tell you this, when I realized that the Democrats had a choice between a woman and a black man for their candidate, I had a RUSH of pride for my country! Why? Because it says how far we've come in our tolerance and equality. That's something to be proud of!

But I don't think that's what she was talking about. I take her at her word and don't look for sinister meaning. She's proud that American families are coming together around hope. They want change and unity instead of the division we've had for so long. I don't look further than what she said.

But I understand that you do, and that's cool.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


That's like asking, "Why did John McCain not love his country before? Why did he dislike America? There's always been things to love about America. He joined the service. Why, if he didn't love his country"?

*bites down on his leather belt*

I can't believe im sticking up for John McCain here

What john mccains words, to me, meant is something we've all done.

You dont miss something until you dont have it no more.

When i was still growing up - i lost my grandfather at the age of 17.
I grew up with my grandfather, so you can consider him my father.

He died suddenly and without warning.
I loved my grandfather, i still love him with all my heart today.
But from the ages of 0-17, i never really showed it to him. I took advantage of the fact that he was there. I knew i loved him, he knew i loved him, but it was never really SHOWN. I would get mad at him, in a big way, when he'd do or say something that went against what i wanted to do.

When he passed away - i realized how good i really had it. I realized how much i really loved him, and would want to do anything to have one moment with him again to tell him that.


That is what John McCain is saying, iconically, about America.

Its not that he wasnt proud of his country before hand. He just never realized his pride until he had lost his freedom.

It's called the subtraction definition i believe (i remmeber an old episode of the peanuts which talks about this....from Lucy i believe)

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Its not that he wasnt proud of his country before hand. He just never realized his pride until he had lost his freedom.

And it's not that Michelle wasn't proud of her country before hand. She just realized MORE pride when she saw the people coming together behind a common goal.

It's the same thing.
She was feeling a surge of appreciation and pride.
McCain was feeling a surge of appreciation and love.

I'm done defending what she said. I cannot defend her words to someone who puts additional words in her mouth and thoughts in her head.

alright then.....


but her words were

"for the first time, im proud"

mccains words were

"i never realized how proud i was until i didnt have it"


Im putting words in her mouth and thoughts in her head in an attempt to decipher what she means. She doesnt tell us what she means, she leaves it open to vague opinions

its like a psychic telling you

you're going to witness something awe-inspiring today


......really?
Well, define awe-inspiring. It can go both ways.


Im really saddened that you're so snippy :*(

for me, this conversation is more about the fact that mccains words are different from MO's words

thats the only real thing im trying to prove here.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


Hey! That's something to be proud of! I'll tell you this, when I realized that the Democrats had a choice between a woman and a black man for their candidate, I had a RUSH of pride for my country! Why? Because it says how far we've come in our tolerance and equality. That's something to be proud of!

Im not saying its not ONE THING to be proud of.
But if this is the basis of her finally finding pride in america, then i have a problem with that

IF this is the reason she said she's proud for the first time, then its saying "HEY, AMERICA, you're all racist, everythign up to this point has been racist"

i take extreme offense to that.

Sorry that my opinion makes you so angry- i truely am. But i simply cannot bring myself to support Michelle Obama

Her husband for POTUS all the way

but he could kick her to the curb and i'd be all the merrier.

Originally posted by InTheFlow
The point here is, Senator Obama is constantly questioned for his patriotism, and for his wife's comments(which seems to have been taken out of context)- whether fairly or unfairly, I can understand why people would be apprehensive, because he is new to the political scene and we need to know who he is and what he stands for-

It's really funny how everything associated with Obama seems to be taken out of context, or misunderstood. Are Barack and Michelle's speaking skills so bad, that the average person needs an interpreter to figure what they're REALLY saying?

But yet why does John McCain get a free pass- because he served in the military he is untouchable? it seems unfair to me- I dont think we can judge the man by the few sound bites, but he is very clear about the way he feels.

Comments anyone?

Comparing the Obama's to John McCain, is like comparing apples to oranges. McCain earned his right to criticize his country by spending 5 long years in a POW camp, being tortured by the enemies of his country.

I don't think that can be said for Barack or Michell Obama. They enjoy their freedom of speech courtesy of the sacrifices made by men like John McCain.

John McCain isn't getting a "Free Pass", he paid for it with his own blood, sweat, and tears many moons ago.


[edit on 6/21/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Andrew, I'm not angry! I promise. That's just how I talk. We just disagree and that's ok. A disagreement doesn't change how I view you or my emotions. It's just something we disagree on. no biggie.

John McCain isn't getting a "Free Pass", he paid for it with his own blood, sweat, and tears many moons ago.

I am not questioning John McCains service to his country, I am questioning the fact that he feels he can say whatever he wants about the country, and get away with it- he served in vietnam-yes and we shouldnt take his words out of context but he should be held accountable by those same news stations that want to attack michelle Obama over what she said... McCain why did it take 5 years of intensive torture for you to learn to love your country?

For the record, I'm not a Republican, nor am I a fan of John McCain. I do respect the man for his military service though, and think questioning his patriotism is ridiculous. As I said previously, he has paid for his right to disagree with his country and it's policies with his own blood.

A better question is why would someone not love their country when they've lived such a privileged and prosperous life? When they have been the beneficiary of all the goods things our country has to offer like a quality education, a good paying job, and a set of personal freedoms shared by very few others on this planet.

Personal Cost = Nothing


[edit on 6/21/08 by LLoyd45]

Let's be honest. We all feel the same way, at least occasionally.

Not everyone lives the dream or drinks the kool aid in America. But with a
bit of introspection, ten minutes of 'World News Now' and a dose of reality -we can learn to appreciate it and maybe even cherish it.

But that shouldn't mean we have to accept the status quo. Furthermore, just because you might not be "proud" everyday and prefer to work for change, doesn't make you anti-American, a dissident or a possible domestic terrorist.

So no, I won't condemn McCain for his comments. But I won't vote for him either. That doesn't make him any less of a citizen or less of a patriot. We just differ on where this country should head in the future.