Fluoride is Natural in Water

it seems the only source you can come up with is the CDC... and if you don't understand the process or know about it then Don't put it up.. You need to use your head instead of just posting exerpts from a site.. Call your local water utility and ASK THEM if they have this process that safely removes the ions from sodium flouride.. and see what they say.. I suggest you send an email so you can copy the response here.. I myself called our local water manager here in Hallandale Beach .. and he told me it is DIRECTLY dumped into the water at exactly 1 PPM he said they have a state of the art facility... I will post the # here so you yourself cant contact him.. Stop being a parrot.

Oh, I see. But you're allowed to post about things you don't understand or have a clue about. I get it now.

You know what's funny? How long you going to go without realizing your wrong.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
wow this sounds like I am back in High School..

Maybe you should be.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

reply to post by TheComte


Thank you for highlighting the fact that flourine is not found in nature by itself but is tied to flouride. I appreciate helping me. Again calcium flouride is natural and non-toxic this is the form that is found in nature... Sodium-flouride is the one being dumped into our water supply not natural.... is that what you do when you disapear for 5-10 mins.. googling trying to find a shread of something that will barely support your claims.. I want you to google and find where SODIUM-FLOURIDE is naturally occuring in nature..because THIS is whats being dumped into our water supplies. go now parrot fetch me a google link supporting this.

Originally posted by TheComte

it seems the only source you can come up with is the CDC... and if you don't understand the process or know about it then Don't put it up.. You need to use your head instead of just posting exerpts from a site.. Call your local water utility and ASK THEM if they have this process that safely removes the ions from sodium flouride.. and see what they say.. I suggest you send an email so you can copy the response here.. I myself called our local water manager here in Hallandale Beach .. and he told me it is DIRECTLY dumped into the water at exactly 1 PPM he said they have a state of the art facility... I will post the # here so you yourself cant contact him.. Stop being a parrot.

Oh, I see. But you're allowed to post about things you don't understand or have a clue about. I get it now.

You know what's funny? How long you going to go without realizing your wrong.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
wow this sounds like I am back in High School..

Maybe you should be.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

Thats funny.. I am not the one speaking High School language here.. And I am not that can barely create a paragraph... All you can do is do exerpts.. You have no fundamental understanding of chemisty and how there is a VERY LARGE difference between NATURAL FLOURIDE (CAF2) and SODIUM FLOURIDE(NAF) I suggest you call your High School science teacher and ask him to explain the difference.. Looks like your still in High school .

reply to post by thefreepatriot

The ionic speciation study mentioned previously (Finney et.al. 2006) also reported that water treatment additives dissociate to the same ions as present in groundwater.

Let me try to explain it for you. What this means is that the water treatment additives (whatever they may be) break down when added to water so the end result is the same ions that are found in groundwater. So, your big talking point about sodium fluoride not being the same is moot. It becomes the same when added to water.

You probably don't know the meaning of dissociate.

en.wikipedia.org...(chemistry)

Dissociation in chemistry and biochemistry is a general process in which ionic compounds (complexes, molecules, or salts) separate or split into smaller molecules, ions, or radicals, usually in a reversible manner.

I hope that explains things a bit for you.



[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

Originally posted by thefreepatriot


Thats funny.. I am not the one speaking High School language here.. And I am not that can barely create a paragraph... All you can do is do exerpts.. You have no fundamental understanding of chemisty and how there is a VERY LARGE difference between NATURAL FLOURIDE (CAF2) and SODIUM FLOURIDE(NAF) I suggest you call your High School science teacher and ask him to explain the difference.. Looks like your still in High school .

This if fricking hilarious. I had to quote it just in case you decide to try and fix all the mistakes.

And you're trying to tell me I can't create a paragraph. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black then I don't know what is.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

reply to post by TheComte




Again my water treatment plant is not doing any of this.. And from what I understand it would be to expensive to do... And not many if any water treatment plants are doing this... . Instead of assuming the CDC is correct.. Email your local water treatment plant and ask them if they actually remove the flouride ions .. regardless even if it was the case I already posted earlier that flouride ions are toxic... the ONLY form of flouride that is SAFE is CALCIUM FLOURIDE ... again THE only form of flouride that is SAFE is Calcium fluride(CAF2) Parrot talk Parrot talk..

reply to post by TheComte


I am not writing an essay and at least I can form paragraph not trying to win a grammar contest as you can see I am replying very fast too you.. (I don't go googling as much).. I haven't even seen a paragraph from yourself... I only see exerpts..

reply to post by thefreepatriot


If you are talking about dissociation it is not a process the water treatment plant does. It happens automatically when the fluoride additives are added to water. It is a chemical reaction that happens without human intervention. And it is not expensive.

Dissociation does not remove anything from the water.

LOL about the paragraphs.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

reply to post by TheComte


So all of a sudden you know how this works... wow..

reply to post by thefreepatriot


That's what I was doing while you were furiously posting trying to discredit me. Do you still wish to belabour this point?

LOL about the 'parrot talk parrot talk'

reply to post by thefreepatriot


Please explain the process of how sodium-flouride turns into flouride Ions.. by just dumping it in the water.. I am really all ears on this.. I want to learn how this works. How does sodium-flouride react with water(H20) to make it turn into flouride ions.. what happens to the sodium flouride? I am really all ears.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

Please explain the process of how sodium-flouride turns into flouride Ions.. by just dumping it in the water.. I am really all ears on this.. I want to learn how this works. How does sodium-flouride react with water(H20) to make it turn into flouride ions.. what happens to the sodium flouride? I am really all ears.

Well, that's really outside the scope of this thread. I'm sure you can google up some articles if you are really serious about it. But I doubt you are. You are just trying to get out of this with a bit of dignity left. I understand.

But if you are serious, read the wiki article that I posted on dissociation. It goes into a pretty detailed chemical explanation of what exactly happens. I admit I do not understand it exactly myself.

reply to post by TheComte


Dignity? wow... Even if it does dissolve into flouride ions.. it is still highly toxic... So I am not sure where you are going with this... Why are you such a proponent to water-flouridation? What is your interest? why have you ignored the correlation between the states having the highest cancer rates and the most water flouridation? Again Calcium flouride isnt bad.. you keep saying flouride .. but you failed to grasp the FACT there there are different types of flouride.. And again flouride Ions are highly toxic do you dispute this? .

Again to point out there there are many types of flouride here it is:
Fluoride is the reduced form of fluorine. Both organic and inorganic compounds containing the element fluorine are considered fluorides. As a halogen, fluorine forms a monovalent ion (−1 charge). The range of fluorides is considerable as fluorine forms compounds with all elements except He and Ne[1][2]. Fluorides range from severe toxins such as sarin to life-saving pharmaceuticals such as efavirenz and from refractory materials such as calcium fluoride to highly reactive sulfur tetrafluoride.


[edit on 20-6-2008 by thefreepatriot]

[edit on 20-6-2008 by thefreepatriot]

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

If you are talking about dissociation it is not a process the water treatment plant does. It happens automatically when the fluoride additives are added to water. It is a chemical reaction that happens without human intervention. And it is not expensive.

Dissociation does not remove anything from the water.

LOL about the paragraphs.



Let me try to explain it for you. What this means is that the water treatment additives (whatever they may be) break down when added to water so the end result is the same ions that are found in groundwater. So, your big talking point about sodium fluoride not being the same is moot. It becomes the same when added to water.

You probably don't know the meaning of dissociate.


[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

Wow looks like a total contradiction First you said it needed additives.. then you say there is no Human intervention and they just dump it and by doing this the process occurs..? Like I said before you start talking about somthing make sure you really know what you are talking about. Because from the looks of it you don't understand the process.. And I myself do not claim to know the process, however What I do know is that Flouride IONS are very toxic... that is all I need to know.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by thefreepatriot]

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
Even if it does dissolve into flouride ions.. it is still highly toxic... So I am not sure where you are going with this... Why are you such a proponent to water-flouridation? What is your interest? why have you ignored the correlation between the states having the highest cancer rates and the most water flouridation?

I already stated pages back that I agree it is toxic in high doses. And I conceded that more studies need to be done to know truly if it is harmful in small doses. People who claim to know it is are no more right than people who claim to know it isn't. My own observations from my fluoridated community and those communities around me indicate there is no higher rates of cancer than other communities, nor any other harmful effects, especially of the oft repeated "chemical lobotomy" type.

In fact, I started the thread to dispute specifically the conspiracy theory of mass control using fluoride, and not the overall consequences to health. But, because of various condescending posters I felt the need to reply to them and so the scope of the thread expanded .

I know there are different types of fluoride compounds. Some are extreme poisons, some are medicine. Surely you agree, since you quoted this part:

Fluorides range from severe toxins such as sarin to life-saving pharmaceuticals such as efavirenz and from refractory materials such as calcium fluoride to highly reactive sulfur tetrafluoride.

Efavirenz. A drug used to treat HIV patients. Possibly toxic in high doses, I'm not sure, but still used as medicine. If you believe this, then why can't you believe that fluoride in water is toxic in high doses, yet still beneficial in small doses? Or, do you think it's wrong to give HIV patients Efavirenz?

Now do you see where I am going with this? I don't know if I can explain it any clearer.

en.wikipedia.org...

Efavirenz (brand names Sustiva and Stocrin) is a non-nucleoside reverse transcriptase inhibitor (NNRTI) and is used as part of highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) for the treatment of a human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) type 1.

For HIV infection that has not previously been treated, the United States Department of Health and Human Services Panel on Antiretroviral Guidelines currently recommends the use of efavirenz in combination with lamivudine/zidovudine (Combivir) or tenofovir/emtricitabine (Truvada) as the preferred NNRTI-based regimens in adults and adolescents.

Efavirenz is also used in combination with other antiretroviral agents as part of an expanded postexposure prophylaxis regimen to prevent HIV transmission for those exposed to materials associated with a high risk for HIV transmission.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
Wow looks like a total contradiction

First you said it needed additives.. then you say there is no Human intervention and they just dump it and by doing this the process occurs..? Like I said before you start talking about somthing make sure you really know what you are talking about. Because from the looks of it you don't understand the process.. And I myself do not claim to know the process, however What I do know is that Flouride IONS are very toxic... that is all I need to know.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by thefreepatriot]

Maybe to you it looks like a contradiction. By additives I mean whatever they add to fluoridate the water, whether it be sodium hexafluorosilicate or hexafluorosilicic acid. Dissociation takes place without human intervention.

I really hope this settles this line of questioning. But, I'll be here if you want to shout at me that there's no such thing as natural fluoride, or, once you accept that, sodium fluoride is different than natural fluoride.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Don't I have the right to manage my own health, why not then put vitamin c,b,a,d?

Yes. You have the choice not to drink the fluoridated water. Some bottled water has no fluoride in it. If you wish to drink natural water then you must assume there will be some fluoride in it whether the gov't put it there or not. Most fresh water has fluoride in it already. Where's the conspiracy?

Bullocks! For a self-described "cynic" you are remarkably credulous.

If you live in a fluoridated community you may choose not to drink the tap water, but unless you go to extraordinary lengths you will have to cook and bathe in it. Most pure souces of water contain little to no fluoride (natural or artificial).

One of the prescribed treatments for hyperthyroidism is to take a fluoride bath. Why? Because the permeable skin is the largest organ on the body and can absorb chemicals quite readily. The fluoridated bath gives the patient a strong dose of fluoride which suppresses the thyroid gland. One of the most prescribed meds in this highly fluoridated country is Synthroid, a medication intended to improve thyroid function. Hmmmm . . . care to connect the dots? [But that might make you a "conspiracy theorist" wouldn't it?]

Whether or not fluoride is in the water supply from natural sources (calcium fluoride) or artificial (H2SiF6 - Hydrofluosilicic acid) it is still bad for you. Ever hear of "Texas Teeth"? That is the condition (skeletal fluorosis) caused by excessive fluoride in the water supply leading to blackened and/or missing teeth. My wife grew up in a fluoride polluted community and had that condition. Her teeth are now veneers.

The H2SiF6 - Hydrofluosilicic acid version of fluoridated water is particularly bad because it not only contains fluoride from phosphate fertilizer scrubbers (i.e. toxic waste) but lead, arsenic, as well as radioactive isotopes. It is one of the biggest scams perpetrated upon western (usually english-speaking) countries; we have been sold a toxic soup based upon fraudulent science and outright quakery. None of the websites quoted offer any legitimate information.

Fluoride applied topically (not systemically--i.e. ingested) has "some" proven cavity fighting benefits, but so do baking soda, hydrogen peroxide and plain old salt without the toxic overkill. As I said on a previous fluoride thread, using fluoride to prevent cavities is like using a flamethrower to kill ants.

Fluoride does NOT strenghten tooth enamel. It weakens it by replacing the naturally flexible enamel with a brittle, chalky imposter. Teeth are more easily broken after years of consuming fluoride-laden water.

There are children all over the world who are unlucky to live in areas with a high fluoride content in their well water. Result: disfiguring and crippling skeletal fluorosis.

The Fluoride Action Network www.fluoridealert.org is a better alternative for solid information about fluoride than the tired old propaganda spewed from the numerous government and trade groups.

Consider the source and follow the money.

When a toxic substance that would cost billions to dispose of legally but instead can be sold to communities for millions by bribing and pressuring health trade groups and governmental health authorities to endorse it--THAT would be a benefit, right? A huge benefit to the fluoride polluters. A PR boon for dentists and politicians who can appear to care about poor children's teeth without having to address the real issues of poor dental health.

Most European countries do NOT fluoridate their water and have as good or better teeth than most Americans.

Despite the disinformation tactic of labelling those who oppose fluoridated water as "conspiracy theorists"--what has happened in the last 50 years in the U.S. is a conspiracy FACT.

reply to post by TheComte


"I already stated pages back that I agree it is toxic in high doses. And I conceded that more studies need to be done to know truly if it is harmful in small doses. People who claim to know it is are no more right than people who claim to know it isn't. My own observations from my fluoridated community and those communities around me indicate there is no higher rates of cancer than other communities, nor any other harmful effects, especially of the oft repeated "chemical lobotomy" type."

"[M]ore studies need to be done to know truly if it is harmful in small doses." We don't need any more studies. That information is as old as the hills fer chrissakes! Fluoride ranks in the same relative toxicity as arsenic and lead. They are ALL toxic in SMALL--repeat, SMALL doses. Dosages in parts per million are too much--even parts per billion are debatable.

Fluoride is also a cumulative poison; it "loves" cartilagenous tissues like joints, the pineal gland and growing bones. Hmmm? Where do we find growing bones? Oh yeah, that's right--the c-h-i-l-d-r-e-n--the same ones we're saving from c-a-v-i-t-i-e-s (Saints preserve us!).

You act as though this issue is a matter of opinion--it isn't. The studies are out there that raise serious issues about the safety of fluoride. In public medicine the "precautionary approach" specifies that "when in doubt--leave it out" rather than use the citizenry as a petri dish for your longitudinal studies.

Your own observations, i.e. anecdotal evidence, are not proof by any scientific standard. Did you conduct your own studies to determine the rates of cancer, e.g. osteosarcoma, in your community or did you just kinda look around? "Nope--nobody's got cancer that I can see."

I was raised in the Chicago suburbs (fluoridated) and have 16 cavities. How's that for anecdotal evidence?

Going after the straw man ("chemical lobotomy types) does little for your argument either.

reply to post by RaptureMe2


Excellent post!

Originally posted by RaptureMe2

Most pure souces of water contain little to no fluoride (natural or artificial).

You see, that statement is false. Even rain, as I have found out, contains up to 1mg/L, which is the level of fluoridation. Even some bottled water contains fluoride. What I've got in the fridge right now has .3mg/L fluorine ions, and it's Nestle Pure Life Natural Spring Water.

One of the prescribed treatments for hyperthyroidism is to take a fluoride bath. Why? Because the permeable skin is the largest organ on the body and can absorb chemicals quite readily. The fluoridated bath gives the patient a strong dose of fluoride which suppresses the thyroid gland. One of the most prescribed meds in this highly fluoridated country is Synthroid, a medication intended to improve thyroid function. Hmmmm . . . care to connect the dots? [But that might make you a "conspiracy theorist" wouldn't it?]

So, is this another medicine made with fluoride?

None of the websites quoted offer any legitimate information.

Maybe so, but that includes websites quoted by anti-fluoridationists.

Fluoride does NOT strenghten tooth enamel. It weakens it by replacing the naturally flexible enamel with a brittle, chalky imposter. Teeth are more easily broken after years of consuming fluoride-laden water.

Observations do not bear this out. Why doesn't this occur with everybody then? Of the hundreds of friends and family that live in this community not one, not one single case, of what you describe.

The Fluoride Action Network www.fluoridealert.org is a better alternative for solid information about fluoride than the tired old propaganda spewed from the numerous government and trade groups.

That's your opinion.

Most European countries do NOT fluoridate their water and have as good or better teeth than most Americans.

Then why the running joke of the British having bad teeth? Why isn't the joke about North American's having bad teeth?

Despite the disinformation tactic of labelling those who oppose fluoridated water as "conspiracy theorists"--what has happened in the last 50 years in the U.S. is a conspiracy FACT.

You may think it's a fact, and that's ok. I don't think it's a fact.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]

[edit on 20-6-2008 by TheComte]