Mandalas, Form Constants and Platonic Solids

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Interesting thoughts. May I ask if you have read any of the writing of Bruce Cathie? His geometric understanding of matter, light and gravity is both refreshing and accurate imho.

It would appear that the whole of what we perceive as 'reality' is actually appearing and disappearing - at a very high, but constant 'speed' - and the resulting 'standing wave' patterns become some of our central 'laws' of science.

Duncan

A fascinating subject to pursue. You mentioned above that mandalas are

"... used in helping one meditate or enter a trance state."

I've read that this is so, but haven't come across any evidence of this yet. (Not to say it doesn't exist. If you have any information here, would be nice if it could be posted here.) I'm interested in finding out if meditating on mandalas could aid in achieving altered states. I'm even trying it myself now and then. Why?To attempt to access my subconscious mind, which holds large sway over our health and behavior.

The spiral form constant is reported to be seen while in an altered state when on hallucinogens. The $64,000 question - can meditating on spiral forms induce an altered state? It would be monumental if it somehow could. The spiral motif is found in ancient rock carvings throughout the world. Did the ancients know something we don't. Is there a larger picture here that involves platonic solids etc.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Excellent. Could you add the polyhedron for water?

I have made a great discovery here in Albuquerque, New Mexico: The Earth has a sphere that permiates throughout the subatomic world. Into this sphere, God places divine light that is generated by It's "link" representative--extra-terrestrials. The yin/yang of balance is the exact key for entry.

With close encounters of the 5th kind, I live "in" life not "on" it. It seems that the simple connections to life can get us this divine light. Being born royal in the United States, I think my crown was set to handle this matrix of interconnections everywhere.

I am going to teach a class on beginning steps for meditation using the mandala and came across your site.

From my "gatherings" the circle respresents the female, the creation world in the small atomic world and there is a female directing it with her male in the larger mass worlds powering her. She holds matter, he powers it. All my communications with these extra-terrestrials point to the Trinity of India long ago.

This is my first response on the Internet, ever.
This contact is so great that governments all over the world are here. The highest level secret service of the USA protects me.
Linda Steele, MA,MS

P.S.
Don't worry about the mistakes but it was your comment that made my decision to reply. We wobble in and out of the "language line" in the US.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I had apparently typed one element twice.

Here are all of them, including Water.

Air: Octahedron
Earth: Cube (hexahedron)
Fire: Tetrahedron
Water: Icosahedron
Aether: Dodecahedron

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I don't know how I missed this thread

this is a whole line of thought that has had me going since I was a kid - and I can't believe there isn't more of an interest than this so far in your subject

there's so much here I don't even know where to start -

and I'm hesitant to contribute because - I really and truly suck at math

and I mean suck

but for some reason - I am compelled to try and understand these things that are just so way over my head...

I'm always lurking around science forums eavesdropping on the conversations there hoping I can pick up something - anything - that will provide me with clues or evidence, or I don't know what exactly

it seems like a cruel joke of some kind that I should want to understand something so much - and be so completely without the skills to do so

but, I do believe that symbolism communicates directly to a level of awareness we all possess that language (realizing of course that symbolism is language) doesn't begin to touch

symbolism being more than just art - but things as simple as a color - or a shape - or a sound

a number, a series of numbers

pattern, harmonics, light/dark

existing meaning that we aren't aware of consciously, but unconsciously - or all together in the collective unconscious - may be built into the elements

math is key, geometry - vibration

the entire subject of crop circles interests me - not just who is or isn't really making them - but what are they saying - and why?

I heard an interesting perspective once - that it hardly matters if they're man made or not - either way - what is the effect they are having?

or going one step further - what if they are the effect - a creation of the collective unconscious?

whatever -

it's a great subject - a huge subject - and without any immediate answers - like UFOs

what interests me most is what are they really saying? the meanings could be so profound that words aren't capable of saying what they mean to say

or a built in mechanism is in place that understands them on a level we can't comprehend - when we're thinking

maybe something in us is being tweaked

it interests me that flashing light can have an effect on certain people with epilepsy - what other conditions can have a direct effect on the brain, our neural system - our consciousness?

what is art? why art?

my thoughts on the subject are hardly unique or original, but it's something that's been nagging at me for a long time - like the answer is right there - just out of reach

it drives me a little nuts, but I like that other people see it too - and I'm very interested in your ideas

This has got to be one of the most interesting threads I have ever read on ats. I too, have a fascination with platonic solids, and sacred geometry. What you said about the "star of david" is so true. As above, so below.

Another shape that has always interested me is the merkaba. Do you have any information on this??

Great thread!!

This has been such an interesting topic, I decided to do a quick search on mandala. How cool is this!

www.mandalaproject.org...

It is a global mandala project, in which kids make mandalas and they are collected into a giant mandala which travels around, for peace.

Also, if you are not familiar with mandalas, do what I did, a quick image search. These are beautiful! I too have a hunch or feeling music and sacred geometry are universal, but like one of the posters above, I suck at math. I want to learn, but feel old and dumb on the subject. I dont even know where to begin learning or teaching myself.

Well, this is a start!

[edit on 26-6-2008 by hotbakedtater]

can meditating on spiral forms induce an altered state? It would be monumental if it somehow could. The spiral motif is found in ancient rock carvings throughout the world. Did the ancients know something we don't. Is there a larger picture here that involves platonic solids etc.

I think medieval labyrinths (like the one in the Chartres cathedral and elsewhere) are based precisely on that intuition.

And the spiral - not the circle - was considered to be the most "perfect" form by many an ancient (and later Renaissance) philosopher-artist.

Sorry, I don' have any quotes at hand to demonstrate this assertion - I am relying on my memory here - but it actually makes perfect sense: a circle, as "perfect" it may be, is an enclosed form, whereas the spiral contains not only the circular motion but also "growth" - transcending oneself (in ascending circles).

reply to post by MikeboydUS


RE literature, I think you might like Henry Corbin's book Alone with the Alone: Creative Imagination in the Sufism of Ibn Arabi, Mike.

I know I did.

By the title of it, it may sound limited in scope - but it's not.
It's anything BUT.








[edit on 28-6-2008 by Vanitas]

Here is another book (I mentioned it in another thread) that contains valuable insights pertaining to this discussion, especially in these early stages, when it's still going in all directions (I mean that in the nicest possible way ):

Words Made Flesh

(I especially remember some interesting tidbits about Pythagoras.)










[edit on 28-6-2008 by Vanitas]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, I'm on my way to bed at the moment, but I will read up on this in the morning. One thing I do have to add is that I believe all 'geometric' shapes, are patterns of energy distribution, be it acoustic or photonic, they all relate to frequencies.

From a post I recently did, relating to the nature of the universe, I considered it as a tesseract. Now, I based my idea on my current perception, so it won't be accesible to most, although I try to show that I consider many points of view and not just my own:

"I was thinking about this myself and considered the 'frequencies' (dimensions, densities) as a tesseract, but rather than a cube within a cube, but many. I'll say 12 for now for my own sanity, we would be in the 3rd cube from the middle (3rd density), we would 'experience' everything within this 'frequency' (or cube) aswell as the other 2 we encompass. Time is not a dimension but a measurement of the expansion of these dimensions and once critical mass is reached, the birth of a new frequency. We would be 'displaced' upwards, were we would then experience 4th Density, aswell as all we encompass."

As I said, it is based on my current perception and will change with time and study but for now, it is how I visualize it.

Add: 'Energy distribution' can be seen in everything, from galaxy formations to atomic clusters, the patterns are reflected in nature from what I can see, although, this may be just my perception of the world, from the golden spiral to harmonic ratios.

Thanks. EMM

Add: Found this to be quite cool, hecatonicosachoron.


[edit on 29-6-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 29-6-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 29-6-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


"She holds matter, he powers it"

Very interesting quote, I have recently been contemplating the role of acoustics in the 'universe' aswell as light and have come to the conclusion, that the universe is created by both acoustic and photonic interaction. The universe was started by the WORD of GOD...

"Before the WORD of GOD, was the THOUGHT of GOD"

LOGOS: Thought and word.

I have been trying to picture these interactions, to get an idea of how this may work, although not a fact, I found it very interesting. I've considered THOUGHT of God being an electric field and the WORD of God, to be acoustics, or vibrations, that caused and control everything we are and see, these 2 forces working together shape everything from the quantum interactions to the formation of galaxies.

[edit on 29-6-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 29-6-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

such a good thread
I've got "metatron" as one of the tags I subscribe to on youtube but it never produces any good videos, on that fishhook
I've often wondered what the rules or algorithms are for generating yantras, what makes a particular one keyed into a particular state/chakra/homeslice

reply to post by Vanitas


I'll have to check those books out. Sufism is a very interesting esoteric path.

They seem to have many of the same archetypal concepts that are shared by many esoteric paths.

Sufism is a very interesting esoteric path.

They seem to have many of the same archetypal concepts that are shared by many esoteric paths.

It is.
And they do. (Among other things, you'll find Platonist ideas galore.)

Eight to six years ago, I was very much into Sufism.
It was possibly the happiest and most fulfilling period in my entire life.







[edit on 29-6-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


I think the book mentioned above ("Words Made Flesh") might be of great interest to you. It contains all of the things you mentioned.
(And it's available free of charge.)

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers



This is something I have started to look at, not so much as acoustics and light, but something else along the same idea.

Light is an electromagnetic radiation which is a wave that as far as we know needs no medium for transmission. Sound is a mechanical wave that needs a transmission medium which can be any of the four states of matter: plasma, gas, liquid, and solid. Sound unlike Light cannot propagate in a Vacuum. Light can not only propagate in a vacuum, it can propagate through any phase of matter.

Now both of these are waves and are a type of oscillation(sometimes referred to as vibration). With sound you have mechanical oscillation and with light you have an oscillation between an electrical and magnetic field.
As waves they both transfer energy. Energy is the important factor here, without it there isn't any oscillation. No oscillation equals no waves.

What this basically means is Energy is the key factor. Energy can exist in many forms. It can be transformed. According to physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only transform.

Now the same thing can be said about Mass or Matter. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be rearranged.

Albert Einstein around 100 years ago first came up with his now famous formula of mass-energy equilvalence. That formula has enabled us calculate energy release in nuclear reactions, making nuclear weapons and nuclear power plants possible.

The ancient Greeks seemed to have figured at least the idea of mass-energy equivalence out and not the formula (maybe) for this long ago. This goes back to the idea of the Platonic solids and the Five Elements and to later Alchemists. The idea is that the Elements are archetypal patterns, meaning they are like the phases of matter: Earth is Solid, Water is Liquid, Air is Gas, and Fire is Plasma. All of these originate from the mysterious Fifth Element known as Aether or Quintessence. In my mind, if the first four are the States of Matter then the Fifth has to be Energy.

The ancient philosophers also saw a connection between Idea and Aether. This would lead me to think that Information and Energy have a fundamental connection. One would have to break down the word Information to really see where this could lead. In-Form-ation. In-Form means to give Form to. This is the same as the ancient Greek Eidos, or Platonic Form, which is associated with the concept of Thought.

The Platonic Form is an archetypal idea. In Plato's philosophy we do not see the Forms, we can only sense types or mimics of archetypes. This brings me back to Energy. In the same sense we only see types of Energy: electromagnetic, kinetic, gravitational, sound, and even mass/matter itself. These types can be rearranged or transformed, but they are only types of Energy.

I'll summarize the concept so far to make this more understandable: The Four Elements: Earth, Air, Water, and Fire, represented by Platonic Solids, are the archetypal patterns of the Four Phases of matter. The Fifth Element: Aether, represented by the Dodecahedron, is the origin of the the Four Elements, is the same as Energy, and associated with Information.

Now we arrive at the concept of the Logos and Nous. The Nous and Logos are the same. Logos to the Stoics was Cosmic Reason. It was considered the same as Nous, the Cosmic Mind or Intellect. It gave Form to the Cosmos by first forming the Elements from Chaos. It was also considered the first emanation from the Monad, which to Philo of Alexandria, represented the Divine.

Now here's my take on it: The Monad would be comparable to what I call The Singularity. It is the Primum Movens or Prime Mover. From It the Logos is emanated, which "Informs" the Cosmos. The Cosmos is "Informed" through Energy, which is the archetype for all types of energy and matter.

Its pretty similar to your idea but tries to get to the essence of waves and oscillation, which is Energy.

I'm still trying to figure out how the Platonic Solids and geometry(including hyperspacial and non euclidean figures) all fit into the overall form of things though.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post [by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

 

This is something I have started to look at, not so much as acoustics and light, but something else along the same idea.

Light is an electromagnetic radiation which is a wave that as far as we know needs no medium for transmission. Sound is a mechanical wave that needs a transmission medium which can be any of the four states of matter: plasma, gas, liquid, and solid. Sound unlike Light cannot propagate in a Vacuum. Light can not only propagate in a vacuum, it can propagate through any phase of matter.

Very true, but I believe that space is no vacuum, could the 'sound' have rode the light wave? They are after all one in the same.

Now both of these are waves and are a type of oscillation(sometimes referred to as vibration). With sound you have mechanical oscillation and with light you have an oscillation between an electrical and magnetic field.
As waves they both transfer energy. Energy is the important factor here, without it there isn't any oscillation. No oscillation equals no waves.

What this basically means is Energy is the key factor. Energy can exist in many forms. It can be transformed. According to physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only transform.

Agreed, I believe energy and therefore matter, is a prodct of the interaction of these 2 forces, the how is what interests me.

SNIP

The ancient Greeks seemed to have figured at least the idea of mass-energy equivalence out and not the formula (maybe) for this long ago. This goes back to the idea of the Platonic solids and the Five Elements and to later Alchemists. The idea is that the Elements are archetypal patterns, meaning they are like the phases of matter: Earth is Solid, Water is Liquid, Air is Gas, and Fire is Plasma. All of these originate from the mysterious Fifth Element known as Aether or Quintessence. In my mind, if the first four are the States of Matter then the Fifth has to be Energy.

You seem to know alot more about this than me and IMO, you seem to be thinking a similar thing to me, although, you have articulated it alot better than me

Aether, Ether (tesla), Zero Point Field, same thing keeps cropping up through history, a pervading field of energy that encompass' and infuences everything we have come to call 'reality'.

The ancient philosophers also saw a connection between Idea and Aether. This would lead me to think that Information and Energy have a fundamental connection. One would have to break down the word Information to really see where this could lead. In-Form-ation. In-Form means to give Form to. This is the same as the ancient Greek Eidos, or Platonic Form, which is associated with the concept of Thought.

From my perspective, we live in an Electric universe (slightly misleading, but the best of a bad bunch), everything is electromagnetically charged, including us, our Auric field (or Meissner field) is a product of this (or are we a product of the Auric field? ), this contains everything about us, from emotions, what were thinking or our belief system, to our past lives. We are linked through energy to everything else in the infinite number of universe, a cosmic consciousness.

SNIP

Now we arrive at the concept of the Logos and Nous. The Nous and Logos are the same. Logos to the Stoics was Cosmic Reason. It was considered the same as Nous, the Cosmic Mind or Intellect. It gave Form to the Cosmos by first forming the Elements from Chaos. It was also considered the first emanation from the Monad, which to Philo of Alexandria, represented the Divine.

I believe the LOGOS, is another explanation for the Ether or ZPF or the principle behind these universal law, the interaction of THOUGHT and WORD

Now here's my take on it: The Monad would be comparable to what I call The Singularity. It is the Primum Movens or Prime Mover. From It the Logos is emanated, which "Informs" the Cosmos. The Cosmos is "Informed" through Energy, which is the archetype for all types of energy and matter.

So this would be the 'centre' of the universe, form where all energy is coming from, the point from which all frequencies and dimensions are controlled? I am unfamiliar with the concept of 'Primum Movens', I would be interested to hear more about it, if it is on topic ofc.

Its pretty similar to your idea but tries to get to the essence of waves and oscillation, which is Energy.

I'm still trying to figure out how the Platonic Solids and geometry(including hyperspacial and non euclidean figures) all fit into the overall form of things though.

Still trying to figure out all this myself, interesting thread, thanks for the reply,

EMM

[edit on 30-6-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


i just came here from another thread. but without doubt you are touching on fundamental truths here, keep it up. brilliant, fascinating work..

23