question about evangelic christians....

here's the story:

i was born and grew up catholic but never really was serious about it because of the many questions i have about the belief. to make story short, i started going to a born-again christian church because my girlfriend is born-again and learned a lot of stuff about salvation. however, upon learning those, more questions came up to my mind especially the accuracy of the bible ( where the usual answer is because they are the inspired word of god). and in church last sunday, everybody was like speaking in tongues (what it is called) and murmuring some words that i don't understand. during that time, somebody was like acting berserk and was jumping around like she was possessed by something. i felt goose bumps upon looking at them. afterwards, the pastor ask somebody to interpret the words this lady who was jumping around said. somebody actually interpreted it. i was like what? what the hell happened here....

now my question:

i was wondering what really happens when a person speaks in tongue? why did the person acts like he/she is being possessed by something? is that really true? or are they just acting out? why do they actually believe in it?

please fill me with answers...


[Edited on 4-3-2004 by jedo]

[Edited on 4-3-2004 by jedo]

anybody wana feel me with information??? or am i in the right thread?

If you believe in something strongly enough your body will respond. Haven't you ever seen the matrix?

Seriously though. I don't think anyone can interpret what they are saying, they just believe so strongly in the same thing that it becomes easy to dismiss each other and play tricks on themselves. It's kind of hard to explain. Those who are speaking in tongues cannot be interpreted, they just are by each other because they believe strongly in the same thing. Make sense?

I know someone who speaks in tongues and have seen others do it. The person speaking does not know that he/she is speaking in tongues. It is suppose to be the Holy Spirit speaking through the person. At a church someone may interperet what was being said. You never know if the person "interpretting" is correct. Someone I am close to is a "born again". One time someone started to speak in tongues and the minister said it was the devil and the person was told to leave the church.

I attended a church like your girlfriends for a month or two. I can see how people are drawn to it. You know, it's nothing like a Catholic mass (been to those too). I know Catholics who were floored when they saw a BAND! I felt "comfort" for the first few visits but at the time I was in a dark place. After a few more times, I lost that feeling. I just don't feel that this is my path to the Almighty.

I was very envious of the people who could sing and dance and not care what anyone thought.

One other thought - the people I know that go to these churches tithe like the Bible says (10% for you Catholics) that you are suppose to. These churches seem to love to build new buildings and often ask for as much or more than you may be willing to give.

Hope this helps

Then again too, maybe it is only a universal translator gift as needed?
After reading about them speaking in various languages and all being able to understand, we can conceive of such a technology today. I doubt we would get much from that gibberish spoken in �tongues� in those �churches.�

Yours is a very good question Jedo. To be pretty blunt, it's most likely jibberish. Now I'm a christian, so I'm not here to try and bash my own religion, but I think it's a result of people getting carried away. Why do I say that it's just over-enthusiasm?
The concept of speaking in tongues IS biblical, but in a different way. Shortly after Jesus' death, his disciples and the apostles, especially Paul, carried on his message with the purpose of spreading the gospel to as many different people and places as possible. Well, this obviously requires knowing all kinds of languages if you want to communicate with ALL the different cultures and nations they were visiting to proclaim about Jesus. Well, the point is that there was no way for them to know all the different languages. Maybe some knew a few if they were super educated, but many had no idea how to speak all of these. So, the Holy Spirit spoke through them in the language of the people they were sharing the message with. They would speak to explain the gospel, but as they did, the Spirit manipulated and helped form their mouth and words so it actually came out in the needed language.
Why is this different from your experience? Because there is no need for people in the church, especially when everyone KNOWs the SAME language to have the Spirit help give a message. In the rare occasions that God speaks to us through the Spirit, He is direct and does not fool around with babbling. Why would the Spirit, if it needed to communicate, even bother with different languages? It would just speak through the person in their OWN language. So, even though these people's motives are probably genuine, I think it is hype and the tongue is a product of people working themselves up to a point where they just babble. It just simply isn't rooted in the bible of what they're doing. Tongues were only used out of necessity, not for fun or to just be mysterious or what have you. Hope that helps.

By the way, if you'd like to learn about some things about the bible that show it to be more than man-written, lemme know. You'll be surprised!

Is this like maybe a reversal of the Tower of Babel syndrome?

The church you are describing is considered a "charismatic" church. Most charismatic churchs believe that speaking in tongues is a REQUIRED gift if you are filled with the Holy Spirit. Because of this ERRONEOUS teaching, many followers of charismatic doctrines "fake" their gifts in order to not fall under the damning scrutiny of their fellow church-goers.

The New Testament lists several spiritual gifts, NONE of which are required (basically because a gift is not required, right?) It also is very explicit in the requirements surrounding a legitimate "speaking of tongues". For instance, there MUST be a some one present who can interpret...else (I paraphrase, but am very close) it is nothing more than blather detracting from the worship of God. Of all the spiritual gifts listed in the New Testament, speaking in tongues is pretty much at the bottom of the list.

I believe you are amongst "Holy-Rollers".

Pentacost? Holiness?

Ok here are the direct verses from which stem the "speaking in tongues" debate within the evangelical Churches:

NIV Acts 2:1-4
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost
"1. When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that seperated and came to rest on each of them. 4. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."

As I understand it there are two generally accepted explanations: A) Speaking in tongues occurs when the Holy Spirit enters one after first being saved, B) Speaking in tongues only happened to those in the upper room when the Holy Spirit first came on the original Pentecost. I don't claim to know the answer, personally I think it is a moot point unless it is directly interfering with worship and/or being used contradictory to what the Bible says (as a spirit medium, communication with the dead, etc.).

The bible tells you not to talk in tongues to other people, because you would sound like a drunken fool, yet people do it all the time. I have never understood talking in tongues and it makes no sense to me. people tell me it just overcomes them, my question is what overcomes you? Am I not a good enough Christian for god to not speak through me?
My only thought is he who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know.

but why do they act like they are being possessed by sumting? somewhat like the excocist (maybe this is too exaggerated)...is it just their enthusiasm that is working there not the holy spirit?

Originally posted by razorbackhater
The bible tells you not to talk in tongues to other people, because you would sound like a drunken fool, yet people do it all the time. I have never understood talking in tongues and it makes no sense to me. people tell me it just overcomes them, my question is what overcomes you? Am I not a good enough Christian for god to not speak through me?
My only thought is he who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know.

razorback...I echo your sentiments.

Just so everyone will know, if they don't, let's review the ORIGINAL speaking in tongues event and WHY they spoke in tongues. It was the "Pentecost" (that's what it is called now) and the Apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit. They were standing in a croud of various nationalities. The Holy Spirit so consumed them to witness that they all began telling the crowd the Gospel. They spoke in "the tongues" of the people around them - not ever knowing how to speak those languages before. They weren't blathering like they had teret syndrome, they were speaking other human languages so that every person there could hear what they were saying. It was a gift from God for the purpose of witnessing.

Speaking in tongues is used for a lot of things. There are no words to explain how good God is, speaking in tongues is using a different- sometmes a heavenly language to worship God.

Praying for people can be hard, sometimes people pray for people in tongues.

Why did the person you were talking about act like he was possesed? I dont know. I dont think thats right but I dont know. Speaking in tongues is not neccesary, it doesnt mean ur not a christian if you cant speak in tongues and speaking in tongues isnt extreamly imortant.

Being open to the holy spirit is hard, some people want the holy spirit there so much they will almost act strange. When the holy spirit is there in power its an amazing experience.

hope that helps a bit.

Yes Valhall, right on. We seem to be in agreement. The important thing to realize is their was a relevant purpose for the gift of speaking tongues. Since it happened when the church was in its infancy, it was like a needed boost to witness to all these nations, to get off to a good start and to spread effectively. But the fact that the Spirit spoke through them in this way has nothing to do with how good of a christian you are. Again, God is not wasteful or foolish. He doesn't beat around the bush. A message of importance would be shared by Him by direct means. Why would He want His christians to appear foolish, even if it WERE really the Spirit talking through them. No, there is no need for it.

Now, because christianity is widespread, there is little need for the Spirit to aid us in this way, because anywhere that needs to still hear the gospel, there are almost always people who already know the languages just because, again, there are many christians around the world from many cultures and languages already.

Really, this issue isn't really too important, because speaking in tongues is not the central part of the religion by any means, nor is it even crucial. I just think that christians who believe in it or do it are getting worked up and focus on this unnecessarily. They put too much emphasis on it, and distract from the important and crucial parts. In this way I think it's more negative.

As far as acting possessed, well.....honestly it COULD be that. However, only you have seen these people and I'm not gonna say for sure that they are. Just be aware that it's a possibility, but I warn you that you should be careful about coming to a conclusion like that. I don't want to say much just because I have no idea since I wasn't there. But yeah, demons and the forces of satan are capable of possessing people. They will demonstrate powers and miraculous things, but they can only because they have higher powers than humans, not because they are benevolent. They do so to confuse people into thinking that because these amazing things have happened, it must be from God. And in a way, they can gain influence and trust. They do this simply to confuse, mislead and decieve anyone they can.

Originally posted by Adrianay
Speaking in tongues is used for a lot of things. There are no words to explain how good God is, speaking in tongues is using a different- sometmes a heavenly language to worship God.

Praying for people can be hard, sometimes people pray for people in tongues.

Why did the person you were talking about act like he was possesed? I dont know. I dont think thats right but I dont know. Speaking in tongues is not neccesary, it doesnt mean ur not a christian if you cant speak in tongues and speaking in tongues isnt extreamly imortant.

Being open to the holy spirit is hard, some people want the holy spirit there so much they will almost act strange. When the holy spirit is there in power its an amazing experience.

hope that helps a bit.

Sorry, I should have added that I'm not saying that it's DEFINITELY them being over-enthusiastic every single time. I suppose in praying, for whatever reason, some people may genuinely speak in tongues. And also, about possession like the exorcist, I want to add that although possible, that should be the last conclusion to make out of all the reasons.

Adrianay, it seems you know some. What is the purpose or relevance of doing so though? I would think that prayer isn't made more powerful or effective in one language or another including speaking in tongues. I'm just skeptical because, in the bible there was a very good reason for it, but now there really isn't that need.

. What is the purpose or relevance of doing so though? I would think that prayer isn't made more powerful or effective in one language or another including speaking in tongues.

We cant worship God sometimes wiyth the right words. Sometimes when we are truly worshiping God theres a point where its obvious that no words can praise God the amount hes due. Tongues are really powerfull in occasions but arnt imensly important. It is a gift though. It is a good gift

In the bible it talks a tongues as a gift. At soul survivor or other big worship evenyts sometimes worship leaders will begin to worship in tongues. Tongues can be a heavenly language or God can use it to bless people. Also speaking in tngues can be used to cast out demons. It is really kinda cool. It is though also used by the devil. Iv heard storys of speakikng in tongues impacting people but iv never been there when its really done something.

it can be possitive: There was this person who found it hard t believe God really loved her, she had a passin for helping people in russia. She asked someone to pray for her because she was feeling down. The person prayed in tongues. She began to cry and the person who was praying asked why. The person who was praying for her had never been t russia. SDhe was praying russian in tongues. She kept repeating saying "My precious precious child" in russian. This touched the person who wanted prayer. God know how to impact someone and sometimes using spiritual gifts like tongues is the best way.

It can be bad: Iv heard of a story of a woman who on many meetings would stand up say something in tongues and then sit down. When a guest speaker came he felt there was something wrong. They recorded her speach and it was interpereted. The woman unknowingly was cursing Jesus in tongues. The devil uses it to grick people and curse God. God also uses tongues for his Glory.

Miracles, tongues e.t.c should still be a part of life as it was in the new testiment. Not once does it say that the gifts were just for that generation.

Be carefull though and pray for deserniment which is also a gift.