Creationists - Explain this please

Originally posted by Lannock

Me: You remember I mentioned probability theory earlier?
Dave: Of course I remember. I'm smart. Obviously much smarter than you.
Me: Unfortunately I have to ask you a question which you cannot answer since you did not study Probability Theory. What is the probability of NOT finding ANY transitional fossils when there should be MUCH more transitional fossils than "fully formed" fossils?
Dave: Well. Um. I didn't study probability theory so the chance of there being no transitional fossils is 100%. It must be because there are no transitional fossils. Well there are a few. So that should be close to 100%. I know nothing about probability theory so it must be crap anyway.

[edit on 23-6-2008 by Lannock]

Lancock vs Dave

Daves famous last words:

Dave: I'm smart. Obviously much smarter than you.

To paraphrase one of Daves pre packaged cookie cutter copy pasted posts:

"Clearly" Dave needs to do his homework before he starts posting like he knows what he is talking about"

Now watch, Atheists will hijack probability theory and start calling it the mountain of Darwinian probability proof

- Con

Maybe I should have mentioned that the conversation is entirely hypothetical (I think that's the right word).

Originally posted by Lannock

Maybe I should have mentioned that the conversation is entirely hypothetical (I think that's the right word).

HA HA HA awe man That was clever Lancock, ya got me lol.

Ill stand by my quote of Dave though ha ha I am certain he thinks he is obviously smarter than the rest of us. Also those answers you gave for his explantion on the fossil record? Is that text book atheism or what! HA HA I mean I could have sworn I had seen that answer before!

Well,, I gotta say, your Dave impersonation really had me so Ill be a good sport about it

- Con

Originally posted by cruzion

I have a quick question for the creationists; if God made all the animals, why did he only create 2 blood types? I mean, look at the variety of species on out planet! You would have thought that he would have used more than just 2 types for their blood, surely? He could have used as many types as he wanted, so why just 2? Why not give every species it's own type? And what's up with all the creatures having 5 digits on one limb? Is he trying to mess with out heads or what?

I am assuming you mean "positive and negative" blood types as their are MORE than two or Rh factors. So the question is really why didn't he make a third like Positive, Negative and ??

We often see this duality among Gods creation ie: Good and Evil, Yin Yang, Day and Night, Right and wrong etc, The digits thing doesn't make a lick of sense even worse than the 2 blood types so I won't even try to answer that one unless you mean on "each limb" of one kind of mammal I'm not sure what you are saying.

- Con

Well, Con-job, you just keep living up to the name ...

You asked for predictions. I showed you numerous predictions made by evolution that were good as of 2001, and all you can do is notice that what was once called "Junk DNA," has since been updated?
I suppose that is proof enough for you that the scientific method is a myth. Was it a myth that updated genetic analysis, or just lucky wild ass guesses that could never be repeated by anyone else?
It must be doubly painful to see that scientists are finally beginning to overcome the residual misogyny of your Big Black Book and have now sequenced a human female!

www.sciencemag.org...

Yes, we may be on the verge of identifying the very genes that make retarded people like you who must deny reality and insist on believing in fairy tales at all costs.

You obviously can't afford to be taken seriously. Your psychotic posts make any intended difference between the serious and the facetious indistinguishable.
So, dharma-haven.org really is just a guy blogging in his underwear! That is the best you can do? Junk urls?
Finding examples of where the scientific method has been abused, does not make it a myth.

What method does ID use? What bloody predictions have creationists ever made?
You asked for evidence and repeatedly refuse to even deal with the simple FACT that the Wedge document was labeled "TOP SECRET, NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION."
It was always a conspiracy of LIES to defraud the public and corrupt science education in the public schools.
If they were really concerned about the culture of crass materialism, they are in entirely the wrong field. They should have infiltrated psychology and sociology, not biology. Some of the most materialistic people in the world are evangelical Christians!

All you have to do is appeal the Dover decision. What is so hard about that? You materialists certainly aren't lacking for any funding!

Originally posted by Eyemagistus
Well, Con-job, you just keep living up to the name ...

I sure hope so but it isn't the one you keep using to disparage me because you have nothing more intelligent to say eh

You asked for predictions. I showed you numerous predictions made by evolution that were good as of 2001, and all you can do is notice that what was once called "Junk DNA," has since been updated?

Oh much more than that eyemaggot,,

It's just that you aren't really worthy of the time this post was which pretty much answers this post and your biblebigotry as well.

You see you too seem rather, errm "underage" going by your caustic incoherant posts

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I suppose that is proof enough for you that the scientific method is a myth. Was it a myth that updated genetic analysis, or just lucky wild ass guesses that could never be repeated by anyone else?
It must be doubly painful to see that scientists are finally beginning to overcome the residual misogyny of your Big Black Book and have now sequenced a human female!


www.sciencemag.org...

Yes, we may be on the verge of identifying the very genes that make retarded people like you who must deny reality and insist on believing in fairy tales at all costs.

Old news been down that debate nothing but Stalin stuff re-hashed reheated and Christians defeated it.

Yeah I think they call that eugenics? not sure but you are sounding a lot like Hitler and your prejudice is making that black books mysogynous discontextualized BS you gave as the typical Atheist version of Bible Contradiction look like a cake walk and you called ME psychotic?

You are a funny little guy

Buh Bye kid

- Con
PS: this is the second time you have called me a retard. Now the con job thing is cutsey and all and that kind of thing is amusing to me.

However,,, I cautioned you not to go over the top with the personal insults. I hate using the alert key because it's the kind of petty stuff Atheists do all the time. So that is why I offered the warning. Now comes the consequence.












[edit on 23-6-2008 by Conspiriology]

Well, you certainly have converted me now Con-job.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I have worked as a scientist, doing research and development for an important corporation. I still do experiments using the scientific method and it still works just fine.

Since you refuse to answer any questions of substance about science and are obviously more of an expert on the Bible, as a good Christian, would you please tell me what "method" you use to "interpret" the Bible, and do you know or any errors in it?

[edit on 23-6-2008 by Eyemagistus]

Originally posted by Eyemagistus
Well, you certainly have converted me now Con-job.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I have worked as a scientist, doing research and development for an important corporation. I still do experiments using the scientific method and it still works just fine.



[edit on 23-6-2008 by Eyemagistus]

Since you refuse to answer any questions of substance about science and are obviously more of an expert on the Bible, as a good Christian, would you please tell me what "method" you use to "interpret" the Bible, and do you know or any errors in it?

Jeeziz troll, just look at the above post! Was that not enough evidence I have no problem answering questions. As for the strawman bible stuff and interpretation I use many methods but what would YOU care.

As for the bit about you being a Scientist Ill just call it like it is

You are a liar

- Con

I'm actually disappointed. I was hoping to get a reply from dave or one of the other evolutionists. The least they can do is blast me for talking crap

Maybe I can assume from the lack of response that I got them with a beaut

I think I will answer for them. "Impossible" does not exist in probability theory, but "not finding any transitional fossils when there should be mountains of them" comes pretty close.

I can only imagine the bizarre conclusions your personal "science" produces.
All I can say is that I have my own business now in an extremely competitive field. If I can't keep producing better results reliably, I lose my own money now, instead of the company's money. Solid science is the only thing that makes that possible. It still works, whether you believe it, or not.

Interesting that the decline in undergraduate academics coincides precisely with the faith-based movement, doesn't it? It doesn't mean squat in science, because if you can't cut it in the real world where results are all that matter, you just won't make it. Bad students don't get very far when other people's money and lives are at stake. Shame on you for considering the "New Age" science, to even be science at all. Even Behe equated ID to astrology.

How is contaminating education with ID crap going to do anything but make it irretrievably worse? If "God did it," is the acceptable answer for everything, there is no need to even ask any more questions is there? You already know the answer. Certainly no way to arrive at any more useful answers. Just roll back the clocks to ... wait, hell, no need for those damn clocks anyways since they require objective science!

Sure, we are all descended from only Adam and Eve. Who had two sons. Who somehow found wives (human?). Who produced a staggering variety of races in only 6,000 years. Suuuure.

You obviously will never acknowledge what constitutes evidence, so why don't we just stick to the evidence that a Christian judge has already accepted in a court of law.

Originally posted by Eyemagistus

What method does ID use? What bloody predictions have creationists ever made?
You asked for evidence and repeatedly refuse to even deal with the simple FACT that the Wedge document was labeled "TOP SECRET, NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION."
It was always a conspiracy of LIES to defraud the public and corrupt science education in the public schools.
If they were really concerned about the culture of crass materialism, they are in entirely the wrong field. They should have infiltrated psychology and sociology, not biology. Some of the most materialistic people in the world are evangelical Christians!

All you have to do is appeal the Dover decision. What is so hard about that? You materialists certainly aren't lacking for any funding!

But I repeat myself, yet again.
Funny, that is just how science works. You just have to keep on trying until you reach a dead end.

I grafted a rose onto my blackberry vines...

Am I not now a Creator - maybe not, but I certainly did Intelligently Design/modify a life-form that would not have occurred in nature, particularly in this form.

People who hate the very idea of intelligent design are a bane unto us all. They make assumptions that anyone who questions Darwin (even as he questioned his own theories) is a "Christer" who is always looking for converts.

The refusal to acknowledge that most of the food we eat could not have evolved - We Genetically Modified most of what we eat today. Selective breeding is a form of genetic modification. Genetic Modification, when done by Humans, is Intelligent Design.

Since it was done by us, it most certainly is not natural selection - and since we often use technology to do it (technology does not occur in nature; Gene Guns do not evolve) sometimes we even blend flora and fauna.

So whether or not god exists, we a can safely acknowledge that Intelligent Design does happen on a regular basis.

Intelligent Design is Real. It is a multi-billion dollar industry. Just ask Monsanto. They Use their intelligence and resources to design trans-species life-forms that Evolution would not have produced.

Intelligent Design=Monsanto.

Creationism=Nothing to do with Intelligent Design, but it is used to confuse the issue (as you have seen) and stifle serious debate. And you can see that it is extremely effective.




[edit on 24-6-2008 by doctormcauley]

I often wonder if Greys are from our future. That being they are indeed evolved from Humans and have developed a level of technology that allows them to travel back through time to ensure their own survival.

That would be where the Novelty comes in, and the Universe is a novelty-conserving engine. Therefore should we assume that intergalactic travels is possible, we must also then presuppose that time travel is also possible as both are ideas so far removed from Levels of Novelty currently allowed withing the limitations of our Space/Time.

We currently do not know whether or not Artificial intelligence is possible, but surely when it comes into existence a New period of novelty will have been entered. We could then rightly assume that both the problems of time and space travel will be solved with the aid of this new Entity.

The AI will then create advanced simulations of the Universe and Calculate that 'Human' Time travelers are indeed responsible for the inexplicable changes in the Humanoids on this planet over the past 500 000 years - changes pointing towards an unavoidable conclusion.... That Mankind is a Genetic Experiment perpetually conducting itself as a Direct Result of the Laws of the Inverse Square and the Conservation of novelty.

There is proof that I may be right.

The Proof of Genetic Engineering with our Genome is evident in the number of genetic flaws Humans have that no afflict no other species - including the Primates. The evidence for my theory is abundant. Just look at our chromosomes;

This is the most inexplicable difference of all. Primates have 48 chromosomes. Humans are considered vastly superior to them in a wide array of areas, yet somehow we have only 46 chromosomes! This begs the question of how could we lose two full chromosomes, which represents a lot of DNA, in the first place? And in the process, how could we become so much better? Nothing about it makes logical sense.

...and we're forgetting genetic Disorders. As with all wild animals (plants, too), primates have relatively few genetic disorders spread throughout their gene pools. Albinism is one that is common to many animal groups, as well as humans. But albinism does not stop an animal with it from growing up and passing the gene for it into the gene pool. Mostly, though, serious defects are quickly weeded out in the wild. Often parents or others in a group will do the job swiftly and surely. So wild gene pools stay relatively clear. In contrast, humans have over 4,000 genetic disorders, and several of those will absolutely kill every victim before reproduction is possible. This begs the question of how such defects could possibly get into the human gene pool in the first place, much less how do they remain widespread?

Quite often, the foods (especially plants) we eat are created using genetic modification BETWEEN species, often flora and fauna are combined;
This is Real Intelligent Design, not to be mistaken for the nonsense spewed forth by the creationists, and far more accommodating than the rigid doctrine of the Darwinists and some evolutionists.

...So Any animal or Plant who's genes have been rearranged by humans in a way that could not have occurred in nature (ie non-technologically) is without any doubt the product of intelligent design - can both sides at least agree on this particular definition of intelligent design?

Edit: If scientists were so sure that the theory of evolution could be shown to be a "Fact" they would have done it all ready thousands of times using the scientific method - It would then be called The Law of Evolution

Who ever heard of the Theory of Gravity, or the Theory of Thermo-Dynamics? They are termed as 'Laws' for a reason...

Originally posted by Eyemagistus
I can only imagine the bizarre conclusions your personal "science" produces.

Nothing a steady dose of lithium won't cure, some foam rubber padding over the windows covered with tinfoil helps silence the voices.

All I can say is that I have my own business now in an extremely competitive field.

Nobody asked and aren't they all.

If I can't keep producing better results reliably, I lose my own money now, instead of the company's money.

If ya can't do it for you then by all means, please don't NOT do it for anyone else, I always say.

Solid science is the only thing that makes that possible. It still works, whether you believe it, or not.

Look guy, you haven't been exactly the most pleasant poster here, in fact you have been a boorish arrogant mouthy liar.

1) You have mental issues like paranoid schizophrenia that runs in your family and you go around telling others they are retarded and psychotic while ranting and raving all your angst aggression at creationists.

2) You talk about ID'ists being bad science yet you have a passion for astronomy and have experienced what could very well have been ET phenomena in the desert of Arizona. I know the experience I live in the sonoran desert maricopa county. You have questions regarding adam and eve or sarcasm which ever but I find it rather interesting the Book of Genesis and enoch has already explained who these people are as the anunaki and niburu who had created a hybrid life form mentioned in the Bible and the Mayans as the Nephilm all that 2012 stuff but you critisize a book you obviously have never read or understood the compelling information predicted in it that would be thousands of years later we see it was right all along.

3) I will say this once. I have no problem with Science, in fact I love Science. I do not like Materialism and the Atheistic worldview Nor do I agree with the phoney Science guilty of everything you have accused creationism of and in spite of what Atheist websites say about recent findings by the house and senate for the unsavory unethical unscientific way Science of Darwinian evolution was found Guilty of, don't read the apologist Ateist websites rants, read it from the US Governments own website. Oh and by the way, last I checked, it isn't against the law to classify your documents "Top Secret" but I have to say after the dispicable way that dover was run with the Judges statements written by the ACLU with the Judge accepting it an entire month before the trials decision was made, doesn't surprise me.

The same kind of scamming scheming was done during scopes also using manufactured evidence. You keep asking me about appeals when the damn thing should be a mis trial but it doesn't matter anyway, I know evolutions days are very short and you will live to see the day it has finally been kicked to the curb along with its prima donnas Dawkins and Darwin.

How is contaminating education with ID crap going to do anything but make it irretrievably worse? If "God did it," is the acceptable answer for everything, there is no need to even ask any more questions is there?

The only people I ever see saying "God did it" are Atheists attempting to convey that is all Christians ever say.

No need to ask any more questions? Why Not?

You already know the answer. Certainly no way to arrive at any more useful answers. Just roll back the clocks to ... wait, hell, no need for those damn clocks anyways since they require objective science!

Is this all you got is your sarcastic ad-homs?

Grow up for Gods Sake You have done nothing but bitch and you call yourself a Scientist. The moment you said this "Some of the most materialistic people in the world are evangelical Christians!" You don't even know what materialsim is! It isn't the kind for how much "stuff" you can aquire. Tell ya what hot shot,, I live near the west Campus at Arizona State University, if you want you can meet me there in the statistics Faculty area and Ill show you exactly why I know you and your so called science is a MYTH including the Scientific Method.

- Con

Doctormcauley, you get the smartass of the day award for contributing more of the cancerous, sloppy language infecting this topic. ID's only purpose is to impose some mysteriously omni-absent designer as the only possible account for how life originated. Not what evolved intelligence did after the fact.

Does the obvious, simpler possibility for our many flawed genes not work for you? We have opposable thumbs that allow us to build stuff, and a bigger brain and sophisticated language to pass down vast knowledge to future generations. Knowledge that allowed those with defective genes to survive to puberty and keep passing them on, instead of dying out as they otherwise would have without the accumulated knowledge and ability of others to keep them alive.

Sort of blows the whole "intelligent designer" premise all to hell, doesn't it?

There are only two known "laws" in biology so far: the law of scale, (physics of architecture); and the law of metabolism (chemistry of energy). The reason is that every living cell could be obliterated and it would not affect anything above or below the thin skin habitable to life on this tiny speck of mud.
Change a law in mathematics, or the physical sciences, and the whole of the known universe ceases to function.

Con-job, I have to hand it to you. Your last post both impressed and disgusted me.
Impressed, at the desperate lengths you are willing to go to, even on to other threads on other topics, to try and find some dirt on me to misquote.
Disgusted, that you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even spell the topics closest to your heart. Did you perhaps mean, Anunnaki, Nibiru, and Nephilim? (Typos on all three? Whatever you say, dude.) Is your statistical analysis as sloppy as your etymology? Do you base your conclusions on Biblical numerology? Using your own secret code to decipher the "true" interpretation?

I love science too. I also love science fiction and science fantasy, but I understand there is a real difference. Planet X? Please! Even poor little Pluto had enough gravitational influence on Neptune to call attention to its tiny little self. There are thousands of amateur astronomers all over the world, scouring the skies for anything out of the ordinary to make their bones.
www.badastronomy.com...

Does it mean anything at all that every location where a race of giants was mentioned in antiquity, happens to coincide precisely with a major fossil deposit? Where is that genetic material from an alien race that can't be traced back to bacteria?

Do you want metaphysical proof that the God of the Bible did not create life? Amino acids come in both left and right-handed symmetries. All life forms use the left-handed structure, not the right-handed. The God of the Bible would never have created life on a foundation of left-handed architecture. The Devil is left-handed, so only the Devil could have created life. How's that for Bibleogical proof?

True. One person in my family suffers from schizophrenia. I, however, have been diagnosed by medical professionals who determined that I definitely do not have it. I'm sure that is far more than anyone else here can confirm about their own sanity.
I had the benefit of growing up around someone who has difficulty sorting reality from vivid hallucinations. The classic characteristic is an irrational need for vast conspiracies to explain their predicament! Sound familiar? No matter how I tried to explain things that were all in his imagination, he always had to add yet another layer to the conspiracy, rather than to admit that he might be mistaken.
I once approached someone right in front of him, whom he had assured me played a key part in a city-wide conspiracy to harm him. When that total stranger had no idea who he was, or what he was talking about, he collapsed in a fit of vomiting due to the stress he had built up over it. That is what it took for him to finally admit he needed help and get back on his meds.

Yes, I once had an undeniably profound supernatural experience, but that does not make it science. It involved four different people at different locations simultaneously, so it is not likely to have been any personal hallucination either. It was connected to the Hopi, not the Bible. I studied metaphysics for many years and have known scores of people obsessed with the Anunnaki, Nephilim, Planet X and a butt-load of other mythologies. There is still bubkus suitable for rigorous scientific study, outside of psychology and sociology, provided you could find any volunteers.

If you had been more diligent in searching my posts, you would have found that I also said there is still plenty of room in sub-atomic physics for the Great Mystery to be hiding. By the way, I am not an atheist.

I would take you up on your offer to meet if I still lived in AZ. Give my regards to Hayden library, if you ever get to the main campus. It was once my home away from home. I graduated from ASU and lived and worked in Tempe. That was before the religious conservatives hijacked our government and decided we should fight oil wars instead of adopting a rational energy policy.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by Eyemagistus]

reply to post by Eyemagistus


"Intelligent Design=Monsanto."

I don't see why you think that just because we have the ability to Genetically Modify food sources, that a God was somehow involved?

What does a scientist making corn grow faster with the aid of cockroach genes in any way have any thing to do with god?

Why do you assume that god must be involved in every aspect of science?...

Don't you know that god is a abstract concept? Don't you know that Genetically altering a life form IS intelligent design? Do you actually believe you cannot have one without the other? What is your logic?

reply to post by Conspiriology


I'm not more clever than anyone else on this board. I do, however, understand the need for objectivity. I know that's the only way to learn for sure. Objectivity has no bearing on intelligence, or vice versa. It does have a bearning on knowledge, though, as the only way to learn is through objective appraisal of all the evidence. You seem to want something to be true, then try to contort your reality to make your wants fit in.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

reply to post by dave420


Why must you use slander as a rebuttal?

Are you not intelligent enough to respond with facts and logic?

Why do you and you ilk continue to derail the thread ?your persistent imposition of assumptions does not make them true, you know that right?

Do you actually belief that our ability to Genetically modify plants is not intelligent design? You realize that a god deity does not have to be present for that to occur.

Highly evolved primates manipulating the genes of flora and fauna does not imply the presence of an "omnipotent creator," yet you insist that it does. You then post as though your newly made assumption is the truth - which is wrong.

So if I believe that Genetically modifying plants is a form of intelligent design - then by your own logic I must believe the geneticist doing the work is God... And I must also therefore be a Creationist who is trying to convert you...

You must get lost often

Originally posted by Eyemagistus


...my family suffers from schizophrenia. I, however, have been diagnosed by medical professionals ...
I had... difficulty sorting reality from vivid hallucinations....

[edit on 24-6-2008 by Eyemagistus]

Wow, you certainly don't have much credibility

Why should anyone listen to a person in your condition?

Do you think that you are better than us? You must be delusional

And you expect everyone to believe you are a scientist? I don't think we should enable you anymore than we already are.

First off, I am atheist, so what I will say on this topic is to tell you what the religion I grew up believes. The Mormon, or rather Latter Day Saint religion is a highly misunderstood one, so do not base your opinion on my reply on something you may dislike about it, many don't even know the true basics. Anyways, this religion believes god controls science, as in splitting of the red sea? Science. The only thing they believe did not evolve is humans, in which fossil records have no support showing a missing link between humans and what many think we have evolved from- primates. Although I no longer am part of this religion, it does support science and I do not believe it can be proven wrong, not from everything I have seen of it.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by doomdragonz]