UK and US diplomat "attacked" and Kidnapped in Zimbabwe

Well heck. Let's follow the old game book. Go in, take out leader in power, stick around for about a decade, and then leave the country in a worse situation than we found it, come back a few years later to take out the leader, stay for ten years, then leave the country in a worse state than we found it...
Huh. Yeah, it does sound familiar.

It's kind of analogous to the USA and lousy deadbeat parents. The government can't do much about it, and the kids are the ones who suffer.

As you said, there is no incentive to remove Mugabe.. Even if he's killed, how do we keep the void he leaves from being filled with another radical?
Personally I think the only fix is to combine many of those African countries into larger entities and put them under UN control. Pump them full of healthcare and education to see if we can close the gap existing between them and the 1st world.

completely agree from what I've read it seems there are too many small differences and too many "cheifs" causing several of the problems, and from what i seem think i know, im pretty sure africa does really have a incredible opportunity due to having such potential for resources, without all of the corruption and squablling between soo many countries and groups they could really use their money from mining/farming/etc to really become a incredible country, it seems they just need better education and communication which seems to only be possible through a UN, EU, etc style situation

Whether or not Zimbabwe should be invaded or whatever is, I suppose, a debate for another thread.

What we need to be clear upon is that detaining our diplomats is completely unacceptable and must not go unpunished, otherwise we risk setting a nasty precedent. No one should feel that they can push British diplomats around and get away with it (and I'm sure American members feel the same about their diplomats), and no one should think that they can punish someone for working at the British Embassy (as it appears has happened, with the veterans attacking the Zimbabwean drivers).

If South Africa blocks this issue being discussed at the UN (and I'm afraid the South African government has blood on its hands now, despite a large proportion of South Africans themselves wanting something to be done about Mugabe and his terrible regime) then it is clear they are simply in step with Zanu-PF.

Originally posted by BBTBE
Hope Britain does invade, gives the somewhere to use the new chinooks which everyone has been complaining about how its horrendous they aren't being used,

Off-Topic but...

A couple of them are up here in South Cumbria. I know because they just flew super-low across fields out to the back before landing on a hill opposite. A 4x4 turned up and they left - probably the farmer telling them to bugger off and stop scaring his cows. And if he can make the army leave that quick then maybe we should send him to Zimbabwe and see what happens

I'm glad my sound-sensitivity isn't bad today as you can hear certainly hear these beasts coming!

I know its not really the done thing with it being an entirely different topic, but here are a couple of snaps if anyone is interested. I just did a bit of cropping, but didn't adjust the brightness as I might do later. And I'm just terrible with distances but these are fully zoomed in on a 10xOptical Zoom Fujifilm S5500.

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[edit on 6/6/2008 by Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally posted by Lethil
Our colonies? We! have no colonies,Zimbabwe is a nation inside of Africa,its an African issue,nothing to do with britain,End of story.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by Lethil]

Typical closed minded thinking.

Those famous words of Chamberlain about Hitler come to mind;

"to a people who we owe nothing"

I was born in Zimbabwe (ex Rhodesia) and now am a South African citizen, so you can imagine I follow the events in Zim very closely. With the meltdown of their former model (up to 1990) economy, and the xenophobic attacks on foreigners (black-on-black violence), South Africans have become extremely concerned. All people I have spoken to, of all races, are very disillusioned with the SA governments handling of the situation - the policy of "silent diplomacy". Neville Chamberlain tried that with Hitler and looks what happened.

What most europeans fail to understand, however, is that most violence in Africa is caused by ethnic or tribal divisions and outside interference by Europe or the US is not tolerated. Some person earlier suggested UN takeover and control .... doesn't anyone remember the Americans and Somalia? Black Hawk Down anybody?

Originally posted by deltaalphanovember
What most europeans fail to understand, however, is that most violence in Africa is caused by ethnic or tribal divisions and outside interference by Europe or the US is not tolerated. Some person earlier suggested UN takeover and control .... doesn't anyone remember the Americans and Somalia? Black Hawk Down anybody?

I know,
I made a post about tribalism in Africa, I believe I used the recent voilence in Kenya as the example.

reply to post by budski


As it happens I do have a modest understanding of Zimbabwe's history, even back before it was Rhodesia, not that what happened back then is all that important.

However, I don't read and post on this website to debate. Some may, I however do not. My intention is not to tell you that you are wrong in any way. Only that you must think about your ideas in a worldly capacity. By that I mean that you must one, understand what it is you are saying/suggesting and two, conceptualize what it would take and what the repercussions would be.

So, when you say that all that needs to be done is remove Mugabe, it sounds as if you had a one minute thought and responded to a post... not said, well, if we did remove him, there would be two other political parties, the MDC and an independent group jostling for power. In addition, the left over members of Mugabes Zanu-PF party would also be thrown in the mix. This create a lot of what I like to call, "What if's?".

There is no way to plan the outcome without getting involved and staging that outcome (what the CIA specializes in, gotta love psych-warfare).

Anyway, just saying that its more comlicated than "bye bye Mugabe". That's all.

No debate to be had.

reply to post by intelligent life


I see - so you do not come here to debate, you come to preach and add nothing but a closed mind to a thread.

Yep, you're right - no debate to be had

reply to post by budski


By all means, feel free to expand upon your initial comment and further explain yourself.

I'm open to discussion, never said I wasn't. What I'm not open to is debating that you made a single line statement about how to cure the problems of a delicate situation with one action. That's a factual statement, non debatable.

So pray tell, what is your plan on removing Mugabe. How might that affect the country? What would be your solution to the aftermath of "removing" the President of Zimbabwe?

I'd be interested to see what your game plan would be.

We can have a discussion without arguing or debating. Oh, and thanks for blatantly challenging my knowledge on any topic. That is very civil of you.

* my research points to the NWO, the problems caused in Africa is because of this African Union (like the EU) (INHO) they are testing the steps necessary to bring in this one world government and they are doing this in Africa first. the blood you see on your TV, will be in our future - cuz, like them we will not support it either... how can you support your own extermination ... ? you fight and die, the wealthy sit in their protected estates and conduct this madness. I hope it doesnt spread -- wishful thinking I guess.... anyway -- pay attention to Africa... this is the work of the New World Order and we need to know what works and what doesnt.