William Cooper's take on the UFO cover-up...

reply to post by SaviorComplex

It is not speculation or hearsay. There is a reason Cooper was shunned by the majority of the UFO research community. He was paranoid even for someone in the game, and belligerant to match.

belligerant to match

First of all ---It's Belligerent Yawn.

2ndly Ok Mr. Tinman,

Mr. follow the yellow brick road do you have any evidence? Please provide a shred of evidence, you make great claims but can you please back it up?.

You are using the same excuse Cooper did when someone disagreed with him. He would accuse them of being a disinformation agent or worse; it shielded him from having to answer his critics. You are employing the same tactic. Cooper is right, everyone else is wrong, because they are disinformation agents.

Here goes the rambling again blah blah blah, are you sure you know about this, please enlighten us with evidence? Could it just be another fantasy dreamed up. If this is the case, please share with us who you know in the UFO community? I’m starting to wonder who you really are, name a few names but until then.

You do understand it is you and Cooper vs almost the entirity of the UFO research community, right?

Do you represent the entire UFO community? Show us the papers please. Thanks




[edit on 25-7-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]

Having known W.C. personally, I can tell you that I do not believe he was the first to shoot. NO.

Without saying too much here I will say I knew the caliber of P.O. he encountered in the final shootout at his ranch.

They were very tough and above the law.

I myself 'moved' when they warned me, the first time...

Having been interested in UFOs, not so much the coverup end, I too in the old days was not welcome in the area.

He could have moved and probably still been alive today.

reply to post by antar

Having known W.C. personally, I can tell you that I do not believe he was the first to shoot. NO.

I absolutely agree, I was never a close contact of W.C. personally but I did have the chance of meeting him one time in NV with John Lear and Todd Sophonia. I have followed everything he has written over the years and followed some of his radio broadcasts, I do not believe for a second that he opened fired on an officer. It doesn't make sense to me and clearly an investigation would not be happening unless something fishy took place.



[edit on 25-7-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]

First, Cooper was widely known in the UFO research community to be a plagiarist. He would even claim known hoaxes and jokes, admittedly created by UFO researchers themselves, were real.

This goes back to an old tv appearance where apparently Bill and John Lear got into it, after John was going to come clean on the Krill Papers being a hoax. After this incident, a lot of the UFO community like paranet, etc. pretty much dismissed Cooper. I can't recall the exact details, but I (or anyone) could likely research them...and if Lear is/was still posting, he could likely clear it up...

Cooper had the same problems as Schneider, basically how does one person, seemingly not in a position to know, have knowledge of so many different compartmentalized conspiracy issues? It simply doesn't fit...

I am about to say some things in which some people may have already stated earlier, I may get tore up by some of you but it doesn't matter.

I've been reading a lot of things from this site and have posted a few here and there but it seems as though we're all searching for truth and trying to make sense of all the info that is thrown our way. Some of you will bicker and rant about the mainstream media's ways but will quote from local newspapers as well as the more known paper resources. I can honestly say that if our government has a purpose for making our reality whatever they want it to be... they will. They have unlimited resources and ways at getting to people/news/coverups.
Now you're gonna say... it's all my own opinion and I'm just speculating and that I don't believe any "official word". Well I take what I want from what is said but tend to not stress anymore about what is reported. We all learn from history, so lets look at something I'm more familar with just so I can list an example.
In the history books and what we're led to believe is that Thomas Jefferson was a great figure for leadership. I am Native American, he wasn't so great to us. This so called great man passed a document to get as many natives as far across the Mississippi as he could. That way, you east coasters wouldn't need deal with us. What a great man, but you'll never be taught that, nor will the MSM ever touch it because it's been swept under the rug. Natives were slaughtered by the millions by our so called wonderful government. More natives were killed horribly than the jews in the holocaust but you'll never hear about that, that info is again swept under the rug. Tribes wiped out, they didn't give us Reservations to be nice, they marched us there and said to stay there, for containment.
Some of you may already know this, but this is just the tip of the iceberg for what was done but our media which is regulated by our government will never tell you exactly what happened to most of our tribes. They will make us look like the savages in order to create YOUR reality.
Sorry to make this so long, but the point I'm getting at is that from birth you're living in a world that this government/higher ups have created. You'll go as far as they let you go with knowledge so don't think you're a head of the curve because we all know what happen to people who see things they're not supposed to.


so let me have it.

Originally posted by Malevolent_Aliens
do you have any evidence whatsoever of this? Do you even have a shred of evidence, you make a statement but can you back it up? you don’t know really know what your talking about, do you have any evidence?

Actually, I did post links supporting my argument. I cannot help it if you have chosen to ignore them. Please read what people in the UFO community had to say about Cooper, such as Hopkins, Lear, Friedman, Keel, Vallee, or Ecker. Read about what lead to him being banned on the Conspiracy Theory Research List (CTRL) in the 1990s.

For some background on Cooper, here and here are a good start.

From your behavior, I can't help but to think Cooper isn't dead; he's alive and well, posting on ATS as malevolent_aliens. We can continue to discuss this like adults, or if you want to throw insults, we can just put each other on ignore. Your choice.

Originally posted by Gazrok
This goes back to an old tv appearance where apparently Bill and John Lear got into it, after John was going to come clean on the Krill Papers being a hoax. After this incident, a lot of the UFO community like paranet, etc. pretty much dismissed Cooper. I can't recall the exact details, but I (or anyone) could likely research them...and if Lear is/was still posting, he could likely clear it up...

The long and short of it is that Lear and John Grace created the OH KRILL papers as a hoax, basing the name on (I believe) the name of an extra-dimensional being named CRYLL channeled by a medium. They added the letters O.H. on a whim. Later, Lear and Cooper were doing a joint interview; Cooper mentioned the KRILL papers, saying he read them in 1970 and the letters O.H. stood for "Original Hostage." Lear pulled him aside and told him that wasn't possible, because he and Grace had made it up in the 80s. This is what lead to the falling out between the two, and Cooper's allegations that Lear was a CIA disinformation agent.

There was also the time when Lazar gave Cooper some papers relating to a Project Excaliber in the early 1990s; then Cooper turned around and would read the papers at conferences, claiming he found them in the 1990s.

And people claim I don't know my UFO history!

[edit on 25-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by SaviorComplex


Actually, I did post links supporting my argument. I cannot help it if you have chosen to ignore them. Please read what people in the UFO community had to say about Cooper, such as Hopkins, Lear, Friedman, Keel, Vallee, or Ecker. Read about what lead to him being banned on the Conspiracy Theory Research List (CTRL) in the 1990s.

So, he gets banned yet someone (Lear) who admits he's hoaxing doesn't, and his views on Cooper are credible.....

Originally posted by Shawn B.

So, he gets banned yet someone (Lear) who admits he's hoaxing doesn't, and his views on Cooper are credible...

I don't remember if Lear was on CTRL, but Cooper was banned for his behavior and attitude.

It's unclear if they intended for the whole of the KRILL Papers to be a hoax, or if it just applied to the name of the alien in the paper. Admittedly, Lear is not (in my view) a credible actor, due to shenanigans such as KRILL and his attitude towards critics, among other things. However, the incident between him and Cooper is indicative of what other people experienced with Cooper.

The long and short of it is that Lear and John Grace created the OH KRILL papers as a hoax, basing the name on (I believe) the name of an extra-dimensional being named CRYLL channeled by a medium. They added the letters O.H. on a whim. Later, Lear and Cooper were doing a joint interview; Cooper mentioned the KRILL papers, saying he read them in 1970 and the letters O.H. stood for "Original Hostage." Lear pulled him aside and told him that wasn't possible, because he and Grace had made it up in the 80s. This is what lead to the falling out between the two, and Cooper's allegations that Lear was a CIA disinformation agent.

Yep, right on the money...Original Hostage...that was right on the tip of my brain...!!!

reply to post by SaviorComplex

The long and short of it is that Lear and John Grace created the OH KRILL papers as a hoax, basing the name on (I believe) the name of an extra-dimensional being named CRYLL channeled by a medium. They added the letters O.H. on a whim. Later, Lear and Cooper were doing a joint interview; Cooper mentioned the KRILL papers, saying he read them in 1970 and the letters O.H. stood for "Original Hostage." Lear pulled him aside and told him that wasn't possible, because he and Grace had made it up in the 80s. This is what lead to the falling out between the two, and Cooper's allegations that Lear was a CIA disinformation agent.

It wasn't a secret that William Cooper lived on the edge of paranoia, though a few of his claims were left empty handed there was also a lot of great info he had to share, some of these things are being said again today. I’m not sure if you have watched David Ickes (Big Brother) video or not but he goes over many similar things that William Cooper once spoke about. Here is the link to that video.google.com...

There was also the time when Lazar gave Cooper some papers relating to a Project Excaliber in the early 1990s; then Cooper turned around and would read the papers at conferences, claiming he found them in the 1990s.

I'm not sure if that was a rumor or not Bob just moved, I will ask him about it.

It's unclear if they intended for the whole of the KRILL Papers to be a hoax, or if it just applied to the name of the alien in the paper. Admittedly, Lear is not (in my view) a credible actor, due to shenanigans such as KRILL and his attitude towards critics, among other things. However, the incident between him and Cooper is indicative of what other people experienced with Cooper.

On the contrary I think John Lear is a great actor.lol
You can learn all about that here www.youtube.com...

Please read what people in the UFO community had to say about Cooper, such as Hopkins, Lear, Friedman, Keel, Vallee, or Ecker

I have you can't always believe everything you read, there are still many in the UFO Community who appreciate and respect most of what he did.

From your behavior, I can't help but to think Cooper isn't dead; he's alive and well, posting on ATS as malevolent_aliens.

How did you guess? Was it that obvious.




[edit on 25-7-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]

reply to post by Gazrok

Cooper had the same problems as Schneider, basically how does one person, seemingly not in a position to know, have knowledge of so many different compartmentalized conspiracy issues? It simply doesn't fit…

True, it’s like an unfinished puzzle and you don’t actually know where the rest of the pieces fit together. William and Phil both could see a picture but took their best shot at filling in the blanks even though they didn’t have first hand knowledge or evidence to back it up.

From my standpoint, take Phil for instance most of his contacts leaked out information to him but could never actually provide him with hard evidence. He believed a lot of what he was told and added detail to his story making it that much more fantastic. Most of his information came from rumored stories outside of his little compartmentalized box. (Now it's possible some of the more fantastic stories could actually be true nobody has come forward to disprove them.)

Most of the info about the Denver airport and particularly Dulce was in fact speculation on his part. He took what little information he did know and made his best guess producing a bigger story only to place it on a great big platter for the UFO community to munch down on.

Did he really shoot 2 alien greys? I don’t think he made that part up nevertheless his knowledge about extraterrestrials was very limited. I believe everything he had to say about the construction of the underground tunneling systems and bases was real but I don’t believe he had first hand knowledge of what was really going on inside of them only speculation/rumored/hearsay.




[edit on 25-7-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]

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[edit on 27-7-2008 by Malevolent_Aliens]

Originally posted by Malevolent_Aliens
2ndly Ok Mr. Tinman,

Mr. follow the yellow brick road do you have any evidence?

By the way, judging by your previous insults, I'm guessing by calling me Mr. Tinman you're implying I don't have a brain. Which is great and all, but the Tinman didn't have a heart; it was Scarecrow that didn't have a brain.

Say what you want about Cooper, but I'll say this: In his book "Behold A Pale Horse", he stated very clearly who killed Kennedy, and that you could see it with your own eyes. He then told you what to look for. And I'll be danged, he was right. I've shown many people in the last couple of years, and they all go "WHOAH! I can't believe I've never seen that before!"

reply to post by SaviorComplex


I really have a hard time with justifying deadly force with ANY citizen that doesn't have a history of being aggressive.

The unmarked and marked police-car scenario you are talking about seems likely if they were taking down a pack of blood-thirsty bank robbers.

This guy was a taxpayer and a non-threat, and then he dies in a shootout with police. I believe in this country, we need a lot of police to go to training on how to non-violently deal with people. They can definitely back off and talk a person down -- there is NEVER a reason to chase after someone with a gun who has committed no serious crime. The police have all day to deal with it.

I don't know much about Cooper, or the details of this. But from YOUR evidence alone, it looks more like Murder by Mad Cops. Which happens all the time in this country, as police bust in doors on people who are NOT drug dealers.

I used to know a man who was a Sheriff in Georgia. He said they commonly had an extra gun, that was not traceably purchased, strapped to their ankles. If they accidentally killed someone, they'd drop a gun or a knife and reduce the headache of paperwork and internal investigations.

So the assumption that the cops were just doing their job is not so easy in America. Suburban white folk like me, believe this myth, because we rarely come across the other side of the equation.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
I really have a hard time with justifying deadly force with ANY citizen that doesn't have a history of being aggressive...

I would suggest you go back and re-read Cooper's own words, the experience of those around him, and the reasons the sheriff's department was serving a warrant. Then come back and tell us if he had a history of aggression.

Originally posted by sir_chancealot
Say what you want about Cooper, but I'll say this: In his book "Behold A Pale Horse", he stated very clearly who killed Kennedy, and that you could see it with your own eyes. He then told you what to look for. And I'll be danged, he was right. I've shown many people in the last couple of years, and they all go "WHOAH! I can't believe I've never seen that before!"

I saw a Japanese video of the assassination. And in that video, it clearly shows the driver pointing a gun back towards the people in the car. This is at the same time that Jackie freaks and starts climbing off the speeding car in the other direction -- which makes a lot of sense.

I'm not sure if it was a totally doctored video or what ... but it amazed me that it is quite possible, that we are so used to being told what to think, and told the fiction that we make up our own minds, that we don't SEE these things.

One question for the "single shooter" theory folks; Who has the power to make sure Kennedy's body goes missing, and to this day, they have not recovered his brain? That shlep that was killed by a guy in the mob, Jack Ruby, because he was so patriotic? Or the Cuban Mafia, because THEY somehow infiltrated Texas? Or how about the Secret Service, who wasn't on the damn car, making sure windows and sewer caps were secured and failed to raise their security level when there had been two prior attempts on Kennedy's life? I haven't read a Pale Horse, but that's what sticks out to me. Who had access. Finding out a year ago because a Government Document was accidentally declassified that showed that some Cuban Mafia tried to hit Kennedy three days before in Florida -- and that this isn't public knowledge, really gets me mad.

But the Cuban Mafia didn't have the ability to cover it up, or to make his brain disappear. That to me was the kicker.

>> And the Bush family is connected at the hip with the Cuban Mafia. Apparently the CIA was on the record saying that a George Bush left Texas after that incident to fly to meet Hoover the next day -- but they it was some other George Bush in the CIA but they can't actually say who that other guy was. No other family has been more behind the Cuban embargo. No other family is harboring a Cuban Terrorist in Florida who downed a commercial airline that I know of.

It just fits. The Bay of Pigs was code named: "Operation Zapata" The lead boat in the Op was "The Barbara" and was rented from Zapata Oil (sorry, no free rides). This operation came when Kennedy just took office -- he could not have been involved but probably copped to it to avoid it looking like the US was out of control. He did not, however, send air support. Take a look; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Corporation
www.democraticunderground.com...
answers.yahoo.com...

He also was the mastermind behind the Iran/Contra affair. Remember Ollie North drug running to pay for those weapons that made sure no hostages went home too early? Well the boat that shipped the weapons was the U.S.S. Poet. It sank later with all hands on board. I don't know if the Bushies are involved in everything, but why do they seem to have their fingers in everything? I'd be curious of any of this echoes Cooper's claims.


>> Like when I saw the WTC collapse. I'm looking at 10 or 20 stories of the North Tower disintegrate in mid-air. I'm looking at free-fall speed of collapse. The floors can't be separating from the core AND pulling the core down, can they? It was a demolition -- but people are TOLD that it wasn't. I can't understand why people cannot see this and it scares me.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
I really have a hard time with justifying deadly force with ANY citizen that doesn't have a history of being aggressive...

I would suggest you go back and re-read Cooper's own words, the experience of those around him, and the reasons the sheriff's department was serving a warrant. Then come back and tell us if he had a history of aggression.

Why were they serving the warrant? There are a lot of comments I could google but I'd have to weed through a lot to get there. I just want to know why a guy with a big mouth all of a sudden gets in a shoot out with police? Look, any number of Liberals I know on the radio could get shot by the police one day, and I fully expect that there will be a million NeoCons saying; "they were asking for it."

It's kind of EXTREMELY ironic to call someone paranoid who gets shot. I just say this as a total bystander with ZERO knowledge of cooper. I'm just looking at the patterns here, and it looks to me that there has to be more explanation by the police as to why they are treating this like a drug bust and drawing guns on citizens. But I feel this that police are out of control in general with all the tazings and shootings of people who aren't a threat. You can't just shoot someone because they are causing a disturbance or running away -- unless of course you want a fascist country.

reply to post by SaviorComplex

By the way, judging by your previous insults, I'm guessing by calling me Mr. Tinman you're implying I don't have a brain. Which is great and all, but the Tinman didn't have a heart; it was Scarecrow that didn't have a brain.

Oh come on relax and live a little.

Twas only a joke, I call alot of people Tinman.

Tinman, not because of the heart or the brain, just because!

(Because of the wonderful things he does.)

Follow The Yellow Brick Road.