Who is to blame for Britain's knife-crime epidemic?

I live in a real bad city, every 3 months or so theirs another dead body dumped off at the river, everyday another stabbing on the street 4 blocks from my house (By a subway station tho), armed robberies and everything, I actually got jumped at knifepoint 4 weeks ago by 5 guys for my ipod and my silver chains...

My citys bad, im sure banning knives and guns wouldn't make a difference, the cops can't even stop what goes on at night around here, I tell them why dont you get off your ass and walk the street instead of driving, maybe that'll stop some of the crime, I still see no action...

When I got stuck up for my cash and stuff, they used a box cutter, all I was worried about was getting the hell outta there, I couldn't fight back or they'd take my life, but I wonder how that would hold up in court as it isn't exactly a knife... I donno...

I just doubt places with consistent crime problems is ever gonna change... not unless someone pulls an arson on those buildings, the crazies arn't gonna go anywhere...

reply to post by dave420



I totally agree with you in every aspect.....

there is far far far more gun crime in America than the UK...
my goodness, just look at our recent news about the man in Chelsea who police shot dead because he had a gun.... it was big news to us because this kind of thing hardly ever happens in our country (UK) there wouldn't have been such a big issue in america. I think our country has definetly got that right....

I dont agree with the fact that you cant even punish your kids properly anymore... and as a result, kids, or youth's, have nothing to fear anymore because they dont really get punished for there crimes, curtainly not here in the UK.... its rediculas

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


I don't think its necessary here in the US. Look at the data I posted earlier. We've cut most of our violent crime rates roughly in half over the last 10-15 years. That includes the murder rate and while its still too high, its generally moving in the right direction.

Its also worth noting that around 40% of the 17,000 homicides in the US annually are NOT committed with firearms. That's a sizeable minority and should give one pause when discussing the possible effectiveness of a gun ban in the US. It seems likely to me that a good portion of that remaining 60% would just use whatever instrument were available to them. Indeed, the US non-firearm related homicide rate is actually 50% HIGHER than Australia's overall rate. In fact, if you look at the overall violent crime rate in the US, only about 35% of those involving any kind of weapon involved the use of a firearm.

www.ojp.usdoj.gov...

I'd also point out again that many areas of the US have a very high guns-to-people ratio, yet very few murders or violent crime. I live in one of those areas. This suggests that firearms aren't the problem and that people are. And what of nations such as Finland and Switzerland? These are nations with extremely high rates of firearm ownership, yet very low firearm related homicide rates. These countries would seem to be an excellent example that shows firearms themselves are NOT the problem and that people can certainly coexist with one another despite owning them.

Additionally, we also have a HUGE gang problem in virtually all of our cities these days (and its starting to filter into large towns all across the country) and banning firearms will have little effect on that.

No, an earlier poster identified the problem correctly and by doing so, indicated the solution. The only way to reduce US murder rates will be increasing the education levels and income levels of inner city residents in this country. That's where the problem is. Murder rates in our inner cities are often 5-10 times higher than the national background rate, a rate that's obviously being skewed upward by this fact.

And on a final note, there are at least 100 million rednecks living between the Appalachians and the Rockies, and most of them are quite literally die-hard gun owners. Trying to take their firearms forcefully would be... problematic....to say the least.

Who is to blame for Britain's knife-crime epidemic?

Well, I realize it's not fashionable, but the only people responsible are those doing the stabbing. It's called individual responsibility. You are responsible for what you do. I am responsible for what I do.

It's a simple concept. We seem to have lost it somewhere along the way though.

[edit on 5/27/08 by Sleuth]

The guys on the BTS MIX did a show on some of these topics.

Criminals fear an armed citizen.

BTS MIX Show 10

Guns up!

reply to post by vor78

And what of nations such as Finland and Switzerland? These are nations with extremely high rates of firearm ownership, yet very low firearm related homicide rates.

Just a slight correction here, the Switzerland example a lot of pro-gun people use I think somewhat of a bad analogy in this case, because while every Swiss citizen does have access to firearms, THEY CANNOT USE THEM.

They're government property only to be activated in times of war, until then no Swiss Citizen can legally use their state-mandated firearms, unless they want to pay fines and serve a possible jail sentence.

The actual number of Swiss people who own their OWN legally-purchased firearms is far, far less, so Switzerland essentially has a low gun-to-people ratio if government supplied firearms are ignored.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Yeah, but that's kind of the point: criminals couldn't care less about the law. The fact is, if a Swiss citizen wanted to go on a shooting rampage, he could. As far as I can ascertain, he is able to own both the weapon and ammunition at all times. Correct me if I'm wrong.

reply to post by Spock Shock

Originally posted by Spock Shock
When I got stuck up for my cash and stuff, they used a box cutter, all I was worried about was getting the hell outta there, I couldn't fight back or they'd take my life, but I wonder how that would hold up in court as it isn't exactly a knife... I donno...

I just doubt places with consistent crime problems is ever gonna change... not unless someone pulls an arson on those buildings, the crazies arn't gonna go anywhere...

How it would hold up in court? The crime was the assault, not carrying the weapon. It shouldn't matter if you were threatened with a Bowie knife or a baseball bat; you were threatened with a deadly weapon.

I wonder if that is a difference in the laws between there and here?

Knife crime has always been a problem, i believe no more today than it was when i was a teenager 15 years ago, we all had knives, everyone had a knife, i knew of 4 people who got stabbed when i was a kid and it never even made the news.

So who is to blame? The media of course, notice how every new generation is the 'worse yet'? If the media goes around saying how every kid has a knife, all that will happen is evry kid will want a knife.

I honestly do not believe the UK's knife culture as they call it is any different today than it was 15 years ago, the only difference is the media has its ear to the ground waiting and reporting on every single stabbing in the country. - like i said i knew of 4 people who were stabbed when i was 15 and it NEVER even made the local news, let alone the regional news.

We would go to Spain on our holidays and the markets along the beach front would be packed with stall selling knifes, butterfly knives and we would all speak one home, carry it around and carve things into wood with it, never used in violence but of course some kids do...but it not any worse now than when i was 15 and everyone was drinking them too...sad but true.

Making guns commonplace will NOT help this situation. For the most part, these kids kill other kids. So if innocent kids started carrying guns to protect themselves, the villains would happily do the same. This has nothing to do with laws, or lack thereof.

The reasons are all social:
- Bad parenting
- Bad role-models
- Severe breakdown of community and family ties
- Lack of respect for elders
- The lack of hope these kids have for a future. What's the point in applying yourself, getting a degree and a job (like me) when those things still don't give you a chance in hell of owning a house? There's no real incentive for hard work and good behaviour, particularly with all the benefits available.
- Multiculturalism. Now I realise how controversial this might be but it's my belief that when you throw a number of different ethnicities, languages, cultures, religions and values together into crowded urban areas, they'll either develop frictions through differences or jealousy... or the youth will find themselves so torn between the foreign cultures of their parents and native way of life that they'll become confused and frustrated with their place in the world.

Originally posted by Sleuth

It's a simple concept. We seem to have lost it somewhere along the way though.

[edit on 5/27/08 by Sleuth]

Like i said, we lost our grip on the concept when we started worrying about prision populations.

The authorities - the Establishment, has done nothing to deal with this, and it is their inability to accept the truth that has caused so much confusion.

The simple conclusion that can be reached from your concept is thus;

We need bigger prisions, because we have bigger populations.

No one seems to have factored in prision sizes when they look at over-population.

Really, the only problem at the minute is over-population.

And the various complacencies of an establishment gone mad.

well first off you can't say just because us has shootings every day brits are better we have a much bigger population which state is closer in size to england north carolina or california. some states with major cities have lots of shootings and murder others not so much. people will kill and assualt other people with what ever they can lay hands on be it guns knives clubs samuria swords or cars. the reason we have right to bear arms as second amendment is to protect ourselvesfrom all enemies foriegn and domestic. if our colonists had been banned from having firearms we would be part of england to nthis day

Another load of cobblers from the government who want us to believe this is an "epidemic" in order to focus our attention away from the fact that they have effectively handcuffed the police.

Let's be quite clear on this - there is NO epidemic, because this type of crime has ALWAYS happened.

I remember when I was growing up in manchester there used to be gangs roaming the Arndale Centre (shopping centre) who would carry stanley knives as a matter of routine - the expression "have you seen stanley" was very well known during the late 70's and early 80's, and it usually preceded someone being slashed by a craft knife (or a carper fitters knife, call it what you will)
stanley knife

The idea that knife crime or violent crime is something new is way off the mark.

It's gone on ever since the first large settlements came into being, and is a result of societies.

There will always be a criminal element unless we change the way our society perceives what is or is not an acceptable markof achievement.

In our society, the accumulation of wealth is the bench mark used - is it any wonder that people want wealth without working for it, when so much emphasis is placed on the accumulation of money and material goods?

Blame the parents, blame the police, blame the government, blame the schools, blame the jade goodys, but most of all, BLAME YOURSELVES for contributing to the status quo which has seen greed become a virtue, and real virtue become extinct.

reply to post by budski


So you don't think perhaps that our exponentially-increasing populations might be contributing to violent crime in a way?

Even if it's not happening now, it's going to.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


As populations get bigger, crime becomes more common, simply because there are more people.

If we were to view the figures (in the future) as a percentage of population, I don't think we'd see much of a rise - although the time may come when people are mugging for food (as used to happen) rather than for rolexes or big screen TV's in the case of burglaries.

I t all comes back to the same thing though - if you create a hieracrhy where the people at the top have everything, and the people at the bottom have nothing then crime will always exist - welcome to the modern world and the politics of greed and envy.

reply to post by budski


I agree, society plays the biggest role in the crap thats going on today, greed is good, material wealth is good and stepping on your neighbour to get that bit extra is goooood.

In school I literally got taught "well its a dog eat dog world and if you wanna survive you need to have the sharpest teeth" WTF kind of advice is this for schools kids? And then people are shocked about all of the things kids are doing.

sorry but I think if we wanna see things change we need to change our society

I live in England , and all here is reactionary stupidity with no idea of what is being done around us
I am more ashamed of the stupidity on a t s than ever before

This is just another example of the side effects of the mental disorder commonly known as LIBERALISM! It's also a direct result of the lefts war on the right to self protection when the gun rights were taken from law abiding citizens. Furthermore, I (and most men I know) have always carried a pocket knife on me...not for protection of course, but because it is a useful tool to have on hand. It totally amazes me when liberals are astounded by something the rest of us sane people have been telling their stupid useless carcasses for years.

reply to post by scarlett1125


People.

People are responsible for killing other people. The implement of their evil is irrelevant. The truth tree-hugger types can’t or won’t face is that some people just plain suck. They will rob you, steal from you, mug you and kill you without the slightest remorse. That is, until they are caught and then - like the true cons they are - blame you, the public at large for their ‘plight’.

How's that "gun control" working out for you across the pond?