US residents in military brigs? Govt says it's war

Originally posted by spines
What does the truth matter when all they need is a face to put across the news channels?

Ah, c'mon. You're being paranoid. Trust me, they won't do that to you or I.

If you are going to take peoples rights away, you are going to need something to keep them scared.

Well, that's up to us as a world to overcome. We have elected a government that takes measures to protect us from our own idiocy (as a world), in reciprocation the retributions are a loss of some freedoms for safety.

Might as well be you (or me) one day.

Not if you don't let it happen that way. I don't sit around and bask in fear, I make the future clear and well understood, and it takes a comprehension of the present to do so.

If you want things to change then educate yourself. Become a leader, a president, a mayor a governor and do something. Nonchalantly sitting around typing on message boards with paranoia and fear won't achieve anything but more of what you're doing.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
So it's illegal to study chemistry now? Don't they teach it in our schools? Can they now arrest lets say muslim or arabic looking students in highschool or college for studying or majoring in Chemistry?
This is horrible that this is allowed to happen. I think people are starting to realize this, but as a collective people we have no idea how to stop this.
It's going to take something drastic for the people to wake up and become outraged and take action. I just have a horrible feeling many will suffer before it happens.

I'm surprised I'm not in jail now since I used to actually build bombs for the air force for 6 years (KNOCK ON WOOD).

You look at dictatorships like Burma who had been initially rejecting foreign aid as people suffered and died in the aftermath of the cyclone and , yes, for most people the outrage was apparent.

The worldwide outrage that the story caused was pretty remarkable.

The thing people fail to realize is that our own government has made all those same decisions. Our government leaders refused to allow foreign aid after Katrina while people were suffering and dying and it was basically the exact same scenario only, if you remember, there wasn't such a global outrage about it. As if we are somehow holier than thou because we live in America..
Blackwater security contractors were there before FEMA profiting big-time off of the aftermath of Katrina.

-ChriS

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

...in reciprocation the retributions are a loss of some freedoms for safety.

Aw, come on. That's tyranny talking.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

-Benjamin Franklin

[edit on 5/25/0808 by jackinthebox]

It's a brave new world, welcome to the monkey house.


If I get picked up for anything I'm going to spill the beans on every GOP right wingnut conservative I know and tell the authorities that their conservative trappings are phoney and they are really just sleeper anarchists.

Turning the tables so to speak....

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Well, that's up to us as a world to overcome. We have elected a government that takes measures to protect us from our own idiocy (as a world), in reciprocation the retributions are a loss of some freedoms for safety.

I could have gone through point by point, but just this can do fine.

We, you and I, are on two seperate sides of the issue here. No matter what you tell me or I tell you...

I say its the dismantling of our constitution on the coattails of manufactured fear. You say it is a government doing its best to take care of stupid little us.

It is an argument that is better off not starting. I don't want to type the same arguments over and over again...and neither do you I am sure.

Oh what the hell, I suppose I should at least defend the personal attack.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
If you want things to change then educate yourself. Become a leader, a president, a mayor a governor and do something. Nonchalantly sitting around typing on message boards with paranoia and fear won't achieve anything but more of what you're doing.

First off, don't presume to know my education. Was I being paranoid? I would say I was extrapolating off an obvious (and often repeated) trend.

Sinclair Lewis writes it down as a relevant warning and he is touted for his vision. I articulate my observence of the very same trends and you call me paranoid.

Different strokes.

[edit on 5/25/0808 by spines]

reply to post by budski

Originally posted by budski
The really worrying thing forme, is that what happens in the US eventually comes to the UK - although we have the european human rights act, which may provide protection.

Government is now an insidious slide towards a state where people no longer have even the illusion of freedom - and you guys are on the cutting edge.

I have to disagree with you. The UK has lost far more liberties than the US. You have your own Terrorism Act 2000 plus subsequent "enhancements" to it.

There is no way I'd rather live in the UK than in the US.


reply to post by jackinthebox

Originally posted by jackinthebox
So let me get this straight, since everyone else seems to overlooked this point. Not only did the U.S. let an accused terrorist into the country in the first place, but this terrorist has been running loose for seven years before they bothered to catch with him?! And now they claim they need to steamroll due process to expedite our national security?!!! Come on, gimme a break. :shk:

[edit on 5/25/0808 by jackinthebox]

Bless us and save us.

Read the article ( ever hear that before?). He came into the country on 9/10/01, before the shtf.

He was picked up six years ago.

Back on topic...

Which begs the question: if he's been in custody for six years, why all of a sudden the outrage? Why not just wait till the court makes it's ruling?

My other question is, why didn't they just send him to Gitmo when they first picked him up? No fuss, no muss.

Originally posted by spines
We, you and I, are on two seperate sides of the issue here. No matter what you tell me or I tell you...

I believe we're on the same side of the same issue, simply dividing it in to two so that we can see them both clearly if we wish to do so and in such bring forth a better understanding of the situation and a more plausible future solution.

I say its the dismantling of our constitution on the coattails of manufactured fear.

I agree. I agreed in my previous post, too. How can I deny this? It's fact. I will only deal with fact. If you present it and it's there, I will happily concede and agree. I'll ask of you, what fear is not manufactured?

You say it is a government doing its best to take care of stupid little us.

That as well. Us being all of us, including other countries of the world. We all effect one another and we all effect ourselves.

It is an argument that is better off not starting. I don't want to type the same arguments over and over again...and neither do you I am sure.

We have nothing to argue about if we are truly agreeing, but to answer your presumed question; yes, I would stand up and fight for the truth until my death. An eternal centricity of banter just to prove fact over verisimilitude is the most august cause for any true patriot of planet Earth to undertake.

Oh what the hell, I suppose I should at least defend the personal attack.

My intentions were not to attack you, but rather to add a suggestion to help your cause. You want change, but what are you truly doing about it? Complaining?

First off, don't presume to know my education.

I didn't say that I did and the suggestions were not directed solely at you, but at any all. You're being quite defensive. I'm an neither on the offense nor the defense.

Was I being paranoid?

Not in a format of personal attack, rather objective percipience: Yes.

Sinclair Lewis writes it down as a relevant warning and he is touted for his vision. I articulate my observence of the very same trends and you call me paranoid.

If you're doing nothing about it, then yes, it's paranoia. If you act, then you are noble.

Different strokes.

From the same pen.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by jackinthebox


The Essential Liberties of your Homeland are infinitely limited. Your freedom is infinitely limited. You are governed by the good and not allowed to persue evil without lawful retribution.

You are not free from external or foreign rule as it is. You are always bowing your knees at the mercy of another country's imports.

Franklin quote needs an update or to be thrown out altogether, or at least understood for what it is instead of being taunted around and made a mockery out of by being used to fit the conveinence of argument as a say all end all.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by jsobecky

He was picked up six years ago.

My bad. You're right. (I did actually read it too. )



[edit on 5/25/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Franklin quote needs an update or to be thrown out altogether...

What?!!! You #in' Commie! I really hope you're not American, because if you are, I have some really choice words for you.

Maybe we should just throw out the Constitution at this point too. After all, it's already been "updated" enough to make it a useless piece of paper anyway. And while you're at it, let's go ahead and bow to the NAU, and then if we're lucky, the elites of the NWO might let us be one of the half-billion slaves they let live.

Hey I want to add my support on this thread, read my sig below..

This was talked about along long time ago, and the HR 1955 homegrown terrorism act link is there also.

[edit on 5/25/2008 by ThichHeaded]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Why do you assume (more then once) that I do nothing?

I do what I can on a very limited income and few free hours of the day (2 part time jobs and full time school). I try and at least show people how they are giving up their rights; I try and get conversation going on it at least.

I made it priority to try and make sure that my sisters and others around me know their rights --I try, if they don't care I can't change them.

I do what I can.

[edit on 5/25/0808 by spines]

Jackinthebox,

You are my new hero for the next 3 days.. You words are so cool...

Sucks some people dont understand them.

[edit on 5/25/2008 by ThichHeaded]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
What?!!! You #in' Commie! I really hope you're not American, because if you are, I have some really choice words for you.

Let's hear them then. Can you reply with some logic and cordial discourse rather than anger that someone has actually uprooted your patriotic brainwashing? I also don't think cursing is allowed on these boards, nor does it show much of an intellect or self restraint. You're seeming like a fanatical Americanist.

Maybe we should just throw out the Constitution at this point too.

That wouldn't be too bright. I love the constitution and its iron fist ready to slam down on and toward moral precipice.

After all, it's already been "updated" enough to make it a useless piece of paper anyway.

What do you think your money is? The constitution must be changed so that we can keep the world a somewhat peaceful place. As stated earlier. The Earth does not only consist of America. Don't be such a nationalistic egoist. Open your eyes to the whole picture and the betterment of the world and all of its citizens.

And while you're at it, let's go ahead and bow to the NAU, and then if we're lucky, the elites of the NWO might let us be one of the half-billion slaves they let live.

Well, acting like you are I wouldn't want to bring you into the new world either. All of your NWO speculations are nothing less than empty conjectures. I'd love to see the world united as one, it would rid it and us of the territorial dominance and ignorance accomponied and portrayed through the likes of the "patriotic" (insert country here) people such as yourself.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by spines
Why do you assume (more then once) that I do nothing?

I was asking what you did, not assuming. On the multitude of other statements that I made about your personality; they were simply staunch observances.

I do what I can on a very limited income and few free hours of the day (2 part time jobs and full time school). I try and at least show people how they are giving up their rights; I try and get conversation going on it at least.

Okay, that's all I was asking. Are those conversations based around what WE can do, or just complaining about THEM?

I do what I can.

Me too. Thank you.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

I love the constitution and its iron fist ready to slam down on and toward moral precipice.

Um, kwhat?

What do you think your money is?

Who was talking about money?

The constitution must be changed so that we can keep the world a somewhat peaceful place.

Wrong. The changes and circumvention of our Consitution are precisely why this government has been able to do everything from take away our liberties at home, to launching an overt war of agressive imperialism without an end in sight.

The Earth does not only consist of America.

Well it will soon enough with your attitude, and ignorance on the subject.

Open your eyes to the whole picture and the betterment of the world and all of its citizens.

Dirty Commie.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
Um, kwhat?

What didn't you understand? I'll answer.

Who was talking about money?

I was. You said that the constitution is nothing but a waste of meaningless paper, so in reply to that reference, I said, "what about money?"

Wrong. The changes and circumvention of our Consitution are precisely why this government has been able to do everything from take away our liberties at home,

Starting off sentences with wrong is a bit abrasive. What you are stating is true, what I am stating is true. And how has any of these "liberties" that have been taken away from you effected you? I'd just like to hear a first hand experience if you could share.

to launching an overt war of agressive imperialism without an end in sight.

Yes, we went to war under false pretenses. I don't stand for that. I don't stand for any war.

Well it will soon enough with your attitude, and ignorance on the subject.

I am well informed on the subject. You seem to be evidently suffering from a psychological dissorder as shown through the nature of your pompous "patriotic" replies.

Dirty Commie.

I take baths and/or shower everyday. If you're going to call me a "commie" at least call me clean.

If you call anyone that wants a better environment for the PEOPLE of the world a "commie", it goes to show again your capacity to construct replies to and understand any intelligent debates.

Little angry baby children call each other names. You can have fun in your diapies or supersede your infantile character and responses and interpolate with substance of higher veracity. I would personally appreciate that of the latterly mentioned.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Lets deduct what we are saying here very carefully my brothers and sisters

His computer contained files on industrial chemical suppliers, sermons of Bin Laden and how to guides for the creation of hydrogen cyanide

There were phone calls linked to Al Marri with senior Al Qaida members and he received aid from mustafa Ahmad al hawasi (believed financial supporter to the 9/11 bombing. and........

he actually had to be decalred an enemy combatant by the president

As a valid Visa holder he is afforded rights under US LAW, but being deemed an enemy combatant he now falls under the law of the Geneva Convention. So he is a Prisoner of War under the war on terrorism. Jason if your family had been killed by this guy, would you be one of the first people to say the government werent doing their job....Be truthful now, of course you would....AkashicScribe look at Tim Mcvay and the Oklahoma City Bombing..that was a case of Domestic Terrorism and he was afforded every right (and then some) of his due process. What we are talking about here is still in the works because there have been no previous case law on these types of situations.

As far as rounding up the civilian population, if the government wanted to do that there are plenty of laws supporting George Bush, or for that fact any future President and past president since at least Regan, to use any incident to invoke the powers of martial law as they see fit. So the discussion on the decisions are going to be focused specifically to this type of case law, which I will say again the US has never really faced and the judicial system is trying to balance the power of the issue and create a precedent which doesnt screw the powers or the population. I mean come on it is in the news..the President is not going to pick some random joe for nothing and categorize him as an enemy combatant.

Now on that note I am not saying that a public round up is not possible or that I am disagreeing with those assertions. In fact I am more than sure that that is on the table of the Continuity of Governments in place tasking but that is something different. With Martial Law and COG there is no need to create new laws to round up the population, those laws are already there. It is just a matter of will those laws be used during a time of need or will there be a created plot to use those laws.....Never the less we should always be watchful/ Remember, it is not whats in our face, it is whats outside the box and further up the chain.....Sincerely Birchtree

No true soldier would betray the people they are fighting for...Therefore- this little plan they have of imprisoning us will fail miserably. There will be riots and fighting here on our own turf and what soldier would listen to such hideous orders as to betray their own country's citizens?? This may be trying to happen but the fact is there are too many of us and too little of them. If they cant even stop some soldiers who are against the war to go out to iraq, how will they get soldiers to go for something like this?

Inevitably when this happens, the people will be after their blood. I'd love to see them try something like this.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


elections have been cancelled since the year 2000.

looks lie the '2K bug' was wearing a different hat than expected.