Venezuela Claims US Military Plane Intruded Their Air Space

reply to post by xxpigxx


So, if I break into your house looking for something but then call you up and tell you I'm in there, it's a forgivable accident?

Private planes get off course from time to time, that's understandable. Not sophisticated military planes flown by highly trained pilots. Come on, it "accidentally" veered off course into the wrong country?

reply to post by SaviorComplex


I can't help but wonder if you've misidentified who those "useful idiots" are and who they're useful to.

Now, I'm NOT with the guy who said the plane should have been shot down. That guy needs to get a life, preferably not one in politics (although I'm sure the neocons would hire him.)

I'm just with the people who say that the U.S. owes Venezuela a better explanation than "Oops, our multimillion dollar state of the art navigational systems told us we were like two countries over! Our bad dude!"

And of course I think Chavez is ten times the piece of crap that Bush will ever be. But sovereignty is sovereignty and if we don't learn to respect it, then diplomacy is doomed to failure.

Just to correct some misinformation here. Most military aircraft are not "modern" aircraft. The average age of the US Navy air fleet is 13.5, mostly because they've been buying new F/A-18 Super Hornets. Most military aircraft also don't use GPS unless they have been upgraded, or the pilots carry one by hand in the cockpit. They still use the INS (Inertial Navigation System), which drifts over time. I've seen them land with one INS system showing off by 100 miles. If you ever watch a B-52, B-1, or B-2 launch, under normal conditions, they start engines an hour before the launch time, so that they can align their INS. It takes a good 45 minutes for it to figure out exactly where it's at. Then by the end of the flight it will be a good 50 miles off again.

Originally posted by brill
The Venezuelans should have blown that aircraft into little bitty pieces. It's their airspace and I don't think anyone buys the BS story that it was an accident given the fact that we are dealing with highly sophisticated aircraft/radar/gps, etc.

It happens all the time and hardly a reason to blow up something eh? GPS, INS etc are not foolproof. ANytime there is a human in the equation it happens. Im glad you were not manning the air defence stations that day.

I don't doubt for one minute that the U.S. is active in that region. I wonder how we would act if another country had "accidently" flown into our airspace? I came across the video "The revolution will not be televised" and it reeks of CIA involvement and demonstrates just how for the media will go to mislead the public. Like him or not I question everything, always have, but especially after watching how Ron Paul was treated by the entire press.

If you haven't seen this before I highly recommend it. It never hurts to get both sides of the story because you end up having to read between the lines which ever side you fall on. (personally believe this whole liberal vs conservative thing is a farce anyhow).

Here is the link to the video about the "coup" that was attempted on Chavez. Spend some free time watching it and decide for yourself if the CIA was knee-deep in it. The quality isn't great and the first few minutes a little slow but once the coup takes place it's interesting fast. you may also get a sense of Deja Vu.

video.google.com...

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


You mean like the Soviets used to do in Alaska all the time in the 80s? When they were peacefully escorted out of our airspace?

Originally posted by brill
The Venezuelans should have blown that aircraft into little bitty pieces. It's their airspace and I don't think anyone buys the BS story that it was an accident given the fact that we are dealing with highly sophisticated aircraft/radar/gps, etc.

Regardless of what people think of Chavez it is their airspace. I'm sure the US wouldn't take to kindly if foreigners made the same mistake in US airspace.

brill

[edit on 19-5-2008 by brill]

Lots of times Soviet aircraft stayed into US airspace, none were ever shot down. One time the the Soviet plane had a problem, landed at a US Air Force base, was given gas and they were allowed on their way

Even at times, Soviet planes overflew USAF Alaskan bases in the Aleutians islands.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Just to correct some misinformation here. Most military aircraft are not "modern" aircraft. The average age of the US Navy air fleet is 13.5, mostly because they've been buying new F/A-18 Super Hornets. Most military aircraft also don't use GPS unless they have been upgraded, or the pilots carry one by hand in the cockpit. They still use the INS (Inertial Navigation System), which drifts over time. I've seen them land with one INS system showing off by 100 miles. If you ever watch a B-52, B-1, or B-2 launch, under normal conditions, they start engines an hour before the launch time, so that they can align their INS. It takes a good 45 minutes for it to figure out exactly where it's at. Then by the end of the flight it will be a good 50 miles off again.

Thank you. Finially, someone understands that these "state of the art" military aircraft aren't the flawless mechanical masterpieces they're made out to be.

I have little doubt that the United States has intrests and involvement inside of Venezuela, but in all honesty, pilots are human and make mistakes and the aircraft they are flying are far from stellar (otherwise, these planes would never crash...).
It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that this plane was legitimatly off course. It isn't as uncommon as you would think, as evidenced by the multiple links and posts already available in this thread.
This wasn't a spy plane, this pilot didn't open fire, or, as far as we can tell, even go very far in-country.

My money is on good, old-fashioned human error.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

I wonder how we would act if another country had "accidently" flown into our airspace?

Exactly. Don't start criticizing Chavez for making this into a scene here because had this been a Venezuelan aircraft flying over America airspace it would been considered an "act of aggression", "a prelude to war", an "unprecedented escalation"; there's no shortage of the amount coverage such an incident would have gotten on the mainstream propaganda outlets.

The Republican hawks would exploit this to their greatest advantage, citing it as proof Venezuela is another unstable, openly hostile 3rd-world regime that is in need of some 'pre-emptive' action.

Chavez has every right to bring this to public knowledge.

I wouldn't be too warm and fuzzy knowing that a plane originating from the US, the same nation that claims him to be a "a tyrant, populist dictator and drug trafficker" and also the same nation who went into Iraq and Afghanistan without any justification is now flying planes overhead for reasons unknown.

How the hell is he supposed to know some pilot's GPS was malfunctioning, or some bozo up there got a bit sidetracked and lost course?
To him this reads very much like a provocation or deliberate attempt to elicit a response from Venezuela.

Not to mention Venezuela's Oil Reserves, and the Republican Party's affinity for and connection to the Oil Industry and all it's related profits, and that is not a happy corner to be in people.

I say good on him for bringing this to attention, the US could have flown a friggin' airshow over Venezuelan airspace and there'd be only a 10% chance you would hear a thing about it in the mainstream press.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Yes, Chavez has every right to make this a big deal, seeing as how if a Venezuelan pilot had flown into American airspace, it would have resulted in a political upheval and (in a post 9/11 world) a potentially fatal mistake for the pilot. I'm not saying it is right. Just in the same way I don't think it is right for Chavez to make a big deal about it without knowing the plane's true intentions. But it is, unfortunatly, a reality.

Those of us on the outside, looking in, can see errors like this -- have the power to recognize human error/ political error/ social errors for what they are, while Chavez and others can see planes veering off course only as acts of agression.
With that said, I believe that our technology, information gathering techniques and over-all social structure ensures that incidents like these remain on a small scale, and don't cause wars or political disasters.

I'm still voting human error, and that this isn't as big a deal as others would make it out to be.






[edit on 22-5-2008 by kholdstare]