Autistic boy banned from Minnesota Church

I know they can be very unruly,I have a newphew who is autistic,at age 12 he was about 6'2 240,he flipped out once beat up my 80 yr old mom and my sister,my mom weighed about 100 my sister 120,it took 5 adult policeman to subdue him,sometimes you can dress someone up but you can't take them out

Originally posted by dhardeman


You can thank the media for whatever misconceptions the general public has about this illness.

I thank the media for entertainment mostly. I take accountability for my actions, and I am hopefully that others do as well.

Originally posted by dhardemanThis is either an attempt to expose blasphemy in the church, or a desperate grasp at anything autism related to go along with the reported escalating autism cases.

This is very much possible.

Originally posted by dhardemanAwareness is KEY here people- at least when autism is concerned. But what I see here is something I see in my own experience with autism spectrum disorders- denial.

This family is DENYING that their child has a problem.

Rather than learning to work with and control their offspring, they turn to everyone else and expect them to conform.

It says in the article that the family takes action in calming Adam. That does not look like denial to me.

She says that she and her husband sit on Adam because their weight calms him down, which is why he pulled the girl onto him.

She also said they do use soft straps to bind Adam's hands and feet on occasion because it calms him, as does the revving sound of engines, which is why he started the cars.

The article link is in the OP

Originally posted by dhardemanRather than learning to work with and control their offspring, they turn to everyone else and expect them to conform.

Have you ever heard of the saying "It takes a village"? It appears to me that this family and specifically this young man has been outcasted, because they do not fit into the status quo of that congregation. It also appears to me that the priest, and possibly many of the congregation are unwilling to live by Jesus's original teachings.

My theory on this was that Adam was a threat to the income of that church, because we was chasing away big donators who were after a good guy badge.

reply to post by eye open doors



Your assumption on the motives of the priest don't hold water other than to say he should knuckle under because the young man is autistic. He has the duty to protect the other parishoners as well as provide solace to those parents. From what I've read here, the parents refused any and all attempts to rectify this problem. Should that large, out of controll young man, do some real damage to others, the parish would surely be at risk for suit for damages.The priest has no choice if the parents refuse to find common ground! It might take a village..but to simply ignore the problems is to be the village idiot!

Zindo


[edit on 5/19/2008 by ZindoDoone]

Is that what they refer to as retard strong? I'm sure this kid has caretakers and therapy. I also think that ministers/priests often travel to minister to those who can't attend service. I'd bet that the Catholic Church has a representative that visits nursing homes who could make a once a month trip to give communion and hear their sins.

From a spiritual point of view. I'm sure Jesus/God would be able to overlook the fact that they werent able to attend services regularly'

From a literal point of view it sounds like mom and dad are trying to garner extra sympathy for their plight by pushing the issue.

And from a purely polite point of view...who would repeatedly let their kid whiz on the floor at church? I mean my daughter accidentaly peed in the ball pit at chuck e cheese and do you think we've ever been back to that place?

The parents are not doing their job controlling this out of control person inpublic. I am sure this priest wouold do a private mass if asked.

Your assumption on the motives of the priest don't hold water other than to say he should knuckle under because the young man is autistic.

Thank you for holding me to a high standard, it is an assumption.

He has the duty to protect the other parishoners as well as provide solace to those parents.

Protect the parishoners from what, a meditation in compassion, patience, and understanding?

Should that large, out of controll young man, do some real damage to others, the parish would surely be at risk for suit for damages.

I wonder whatever happened to "turn the other cheek"?

The priest has no choice if the parents refuse to find common ground! It might take a village..but to simply ignore the problems is to be the village idiot!

Is the problem (I prefer to use the term challenge) the family, or the ways of the organisation? I lean towards the latter.

reply to post by spacedoubt


I don't know how you could possibly agree with this. This family is trying to work with the gifts that God gave them and all of our gifts are not the same! This is a perfect opportunity for that church to step up to the plate and witness to one of God's own children. If you truly believe that God made the "normal" people, who do you think made the ones that don't fit the mold? Raising a special needs child is not an easy task and there are very, very few places that you can go and feel like a "normal" and accepted family, church should be one of them. Is it really that hard to see past some noise in church? Is that what we think is important go God, how quiet we are during the sermon or is it how we accept all of His children, not just the ones we are comfortable with? I grew up in a very family orientated Baptist church, when I had a child born with cerebral palsy the church was there for me. I knew from the start that God had granted me a gift and who was I to say that gift wasn't the right one? My daughter did not always behave in church and she sometimes wet her pants and she was sometimes disruptive. We love and support her anyway. We all have crosses to bear, some of them are just more obvious. This family and this child need support, not punishment.

One last thing, this is NOTHING like the mainstreaming of a child in school, a right which is protected by the IDEA 2004 law and the American's with Disabilities Act. If this was a school there would be an uproar because of the child's rights being violated. As it is, his moral rights were violated by someone that should know better, someone that should be looking out for that right, not trampling on it!

Kathleen

reply to post by eye open doors


You haven't been exposed to the type of autism this child seems to have. These are large, strong, mainly male kids that we are talking about. They are large for their age as well. My friend who works with an Autism program is a strong man and he has trouble controlling these kids. He wears glasses, not because of his eyesight but so he doesn't get spit in his eyes. I visited him once at his school and one of the boys rushed at one of the other boys and it took 3 large men to get him off of the other student. The teachers just chalked it up as a normal day.

One of his fellow teachers suffered a broken arm and tore up their knee as they were suddenly attacked by one of the kids out of nowhere. Don't get me wrong, the kids aren't mean and violent, they just don't know any better. Still the teachers are trained to always be in eyeshot of eachother as they go about their daily routines. There are different levels of autism and it sounds like Adam's is the type my friend deals with. The kids have become too strong for the parents to control, the parents try, but just physically can't match them. That's why there is an Autism program like the one my friend teaches at; those kids can't really be controlled by normal means all the time.

Autism is really hard problem to deal with.

Originally posted by pavil
While I can understand your viewpoint, I would think that putting this 13 year old with a bunch of babies is just asking for something bad to happen.

No, that was not my meaning at all. There are mass time, well at our church, where babies do not attend. I did not mean to put that kid with the babies LOL but there must be a mass, IF there is a baby room, where babies do not attend either because it is too early or too late in the day.

However, there should some sort of arrangement that can be made, perhaps not in his case particularly, but in general for kids that have this disorder and cannot
control themselves.

reply to post by pavil


The restraining order is what irks me about this whole situation. I thank you for sharing your experience with the autism.

Originally posted by eye open doors
The restraining order is what irks me about this whole situation. I thank you for sharing your experience with the autism.

Before you judge the priest, you should try to understand how many churches, especially catholic churches operate.

Church services are scheduled events, people who go to service take their time out of their day to attend. A pastor not only has to preach but has to deal with the administration of the parish itself. Many of these churches have a very small staff to deal with day-to-day functions of running the place. It is impossible to deal with an unruly mentally retarded and physically strong person and at the same time have a working service.

A family with an autistic kid, and since the family is catholic, can easily opt for an at home service, especially since communion is the main part and all it takes is someone to deliver it. There are millions of non-ambulatory catholics that "attend" mass by just watching it on TV and having someone deliver the Eucharist.

Why should this family think they are special when there are several ways to workaround the situation without it being disruptive and possibly dangerous to the other church goers?

The restraining order is not directed at the autistic kid. The restraining order is meant for an uncooperative family that insists that they have a right to disrupt the religious celebration of other people.

reply to post by Spoontoad


the kid is probably better off not going to church anyway. He should take the names of the people who banned him so that he can thank them in a few years.

In all honesty this is nobodys fault but the parents. Did they honestly think bringing their son who makes noises and can be disruptful would be a good idea in church? Its common sense and any good parent of a disruptive child(Disabled or not) wouldnt put their son or the congregation through such a fiasco. Bottom line, no person should feel endangered in their house of worship, these parents need to get a clue.

Rasobasi420 said...
"I'd think that the priest would want to do as much as he could to be a spiritual leader for the child.... I find it hard to accept that someone who's dedicated their life to forgiveness would make a final decision to take legal action against people for wanting to worship."

The church has tried to accommodate, but the behavior has become more physically dangerous, and a court agrees. It’s not the boy’s fault, but his own parents cannot always control him.

I doubt that even Jesus would condone the enabling of dangerous and disruptive behavior -- posing great risks to others and self -- in the name of “acceptance”. This is sloppy agape.

Someone can be seriously injured. The pastor has definite moral and legal responsibilities to protect everyone from harm. If the pastor failed to do so, and some child or elderly person were injured, there would be a major lawsuit. "I was practicing inclusion" would not be a defense for reckless endangerment.

In a perfect world, everyone would be welcomed everywhere. But if I had a highly communicable disease, say TB, I’d have no right to mingle in large crowds where I posed a serious threat. And I think Jesus would agree, notwithstanding that he loved everyone.

I can easily see both sides. I have a special needs child myself. She at times can be inappropriate by making noises at the wrong time etc. However, she hasn't ever been a danger to anyone else. She is in a self-contained classroom where there are kids who are dangerous. She has been knocked over in her wheelchair, bitten, hit and knocked down to the floor. She has been taken to the ER on three different occasions.

Some kids are very difficult to control and are very dangerous. However I do feel for them and the parents. I think it is a situation that doesn't really have a perfect or "right" answer.

When I was in high school my chemistry teacher would often bring her autistic daughter to class on test days for some reason. The girl was a massive distraction, of you couldn't say anything though. I can see how a similar person would interfere with worship. It may sound cruel, but the liberty of one should not be allowed if it unavoidably disturbs the goals of many, whether it be striving for that A or seeking Christ in worship. It's unfortunate but true.

Originally posted by wutone

Originally posted by eye open doors
The restraining order is what irks me about this whole situation. I thank you for sharing your experience with the autism.

I imagine that the restraining order was a last resort after, probably, many calm, cogent pleas to do something about their child.

UHM excuse me but Jesus loves ALL children and we are all suposed to worship God and keep the sabath Holy if every church put a restraining order on autistic children how could they learn about God and what he has done for us ITS NOT FAIR God gave him this disorder for a reason maybe the reason was to let people know how rejected these children are i mean in school thats not surprising kids tease and can be mean but church is supposed to be a warm welcoming place for all types of people why would you change that because of some disruptions ? God wants us to love everyone even our enemies even the people who are "different" even strangers Putting a restraining order on this child from church is almost like telling him he is not good enough for god and will never be good enough to be in heaven poor thing doesnt deserve that because God loves him and no one should put him down like this

Melanie Dale
ONLY 14 yrs
(sorry for any short hand text)

reply to post by Zealott

To Zealott,
Your an idiot! Get some education on Autism. In fact, hope God "blesses" you with one, so you'll understand what us as parents have to face in the "normal" world. Your choice of words and opinion were very rude and hurtful