The METI Controversy: Is Detection by Alien Life a Threat to the Human Species?

The METI Controversy: Is Detection by Alien Life a Threat to the Human Species?

Mankind has always been driven by contradictory drives. The relentless curiosity that pushes us forward and is directly responsible for our progress from caves to cities. The fear of change that tells us "hang on, these caves/cities are really nice, we don't want to risk losing them." There isn't any greater potential threat to the status quo than the discovery of extraterrestrial life, which is why some people would prefer we didn't try.

There has been some outrage recently over attempts to contact intelligent aliens, where instead of hiding in the corner and listening real hard some astronomers beamed intense directional messages up up and away. Critics decried these actions as dangerous, though their fears reveal more about us than any eventual ETs. They assume that they would be similar to humanity, so their first response to finding a more primitive culture would be to exploit the hell out of it. While such a fate might be pleasingly ironic (for anyone who isn't human, at least), others contend that any species that can make the journey here has advanced to a point where their goals are rather higher-minded than "Shoot us".

I believe they're already here. Apparently, they have a lot of plans for this planet too.

The UFO lecture by Philip Schneider that got him murdered

realufos.blogspot.com... This story is very shocking indeed. Philip Schneider was a engineer who worked for the US government and in the last few years of his life revealed many secrets about what has being covered up. As a result he was murdered for this in 1996. Here is the lecture that got him murdered, recorded 6 months before his death. very interesting:

Phil Schneider - May 1995 Lecture

Phil Schneider was a geologist, structural engineer, and underground tunneling expert who participated in the construction of many deep underground cities and bases in North America and abroad for the government. In May of 1995, suffering from terminal cancer, he began giving talks in Las Vegas describing in detail the underground cities, the government's secret deal with negative aliens, high alien technology being employed by the government-including "corbamite" (element 140), mining on the moon, FEMA and martial law, the coming New World Order takeover, the Alien/ NWO genocide agenda to reduce the earth's population by 85% before 2029, and a host of other stunning revelations. Phil Schneider was an extraordinarily brave man who knew that he was going to be killed because of the information he was revealing to the American public.

Google Video Link

IF aliens we're to attack us, with warfare, or alien biological disease, we would of been dead 50 years ago. Get ya facts straight. The aliens are both evil and peaceful but they have no means in temporing with our nuclear capabilities -- WE can destroy whole planets, our own 7 times over again. Aliens are here to help us, not destroy us.

reply to post by TheRealYoda7

So am I supposed to believe that you have more facts about aliens, than the sources I've presented (above)?

Get your facts straight.

Show me what needs straightening, beside your attitude toward opposing opinions, and facts that you are unwilling to accept?

haha How are aliens helping the world? I don't see them cleaning up the U.S. Government & employing honest patriots to lead this country, or any other nation under tyrannical governments such as the aforementioned.

reply to post by ChadAndrewATS


ignoring people who claim to be have worked with aliens or close to, lets have a look at the important question of "Is Detection by Alien Life a Threat to the Human Species?"

The answer is 'probably'

If aliens are anything like us, craving power etc, then they can see our planet as an exploitable resource.
I know we like the idea of friendly aliens, (ET, 3rd Rock from the Sun, Alf) but think about how we treat other third world countries. March in, take their resources, keep the population under control as we work, then when we leave its worse off than before. Just because they've built spacecraft, doesnt mean they're any better off morally. We build spacecraft and probes and I don't see humans behaving any nicer

Let's hope they're nothing like us

reply to post by ChadAndrewATS


I think they would be a threat only because they "could " destroy us. Clearly, to get here they would have advanced far beyond us technologically. The amount of time we have been on earth is a cosmic blink. Therefore I have no doubt that if they wanted to, they could cleanse the earth of all human life very easily as they have a huge headstart on us.

I believe in the basic tenents of evolution. There is no reason for those basic tenets not to be true to other planets. Imagine us in a million years...hopefully by then we would have evolved beyond the blood thirstiness which has plauged our species since we first stood on two legs.

If they can come here, that means they don't need our planet, it means they have advanced enough to cover vast distances in space, which would cost a massive amount of resources ( money ).

Naw..I reckon if they are or have been here it is merely because we are a curious little side trip on some intergalactic tour of backwards and primitve civilizations which is probably advertsed in some alien holiday brochure..

I am going to agree with you, if they were hostile we have no means to stop them by any force we have. They most definately would have technology far beyond our means if they travelled far distances to reach our planet. The could probably push a button and incinerate every living thing on the planet. So I believe they are acting as a "big brother" and standing back and watch us make our mistakes... and learn from them.

Originally posted by Merigold
If they can come here, that means they don't need our planet, it means they have advanced enough to cover vast distances in space, which would cost a massive amount of resources ( money ).

I would agree with this fully. In fact, our Planet is likely not high on the 'exploitable resources' list for an Alien Species. In my view, if they are coming to Earth, it's to observe the life here. That's the one thing that we know of (so far) in our Solar System that makes our Planet unique, the fact that there are beings walking around on the surface.

If we were the hypothetical Aliens, and we were entering the Solar System from the edge (out at the Oort Cloud), why come to Earth if not to observe life?

If we wanted water, Europa is closer and has less gravity, heck why not just open up the bay doors and bring in an ice body (a tiny Pluto)?

If we wanted methane, a quick dip through the upper atmosphere of Jupiter would collect much, not to mention a short 'away mission' to the surface of Titan.

If we wanted oxygen it can be gotten from the above mentioned water, as can hydrogen.

My point is that, you can get resources all over the Solar System. It's 'unclaimed', and it's out there.

If you are coming to Earth, to me that suggests you are coming here to see the one thing Earth has that these other worlds don't.

Creatures Animals. Plants. And, well, yes Humans.

Originally posted by Merigold
Naw..I reckon if they are or have been here it is merely because we are a curious little side trip on some intergalactic tour of backwards and primitve civilizations which is probably advertsed in some alien holiday brochure..

Also a possibility

But to answer the question of the OP, I don't think we have anything to fear from a species that can get here from there. When they talk of resources, their talking about things like Dyson Spheres and Matter-Antimatter Reactors. The resources they require will not likely be found on Earth at all, hence they would not travel here with the idea of conquest or exploitation.

Now as to their disposition towards our race, that's harder to determine. They might find Humans tasty, or they might respect our accomplishments and seek to 'guide us' as a species a la the Vulcans in the Star Trek Mythology.

But they're surely not coming here to exploit our resources, not in the primitive way that we mean resources. Nobody wants our dirty oil for their spaceships

I think they come here to observe and study life, just as we Humans do whenever we find life.

Great thread OP. Star and Flag.

-WFA

i dont believe we are being visited by E.T and i think its too late now to worry about sending messages. We have been leaking radio/tv signals for 70 years which can be detected by any ETI with sufficient technology.

Originally posted by yeti101
i dont believe we are being visited by E.T

Not exactly on topic, but I disagree. Considering that my response is equally off-topic as your statement, I find it worth mentioning that there is credible evidence in the BOLA thread that we have indeed been visited. No matter how long you choose to ingore that thread, the evidence is still sitting there defying explanation.

It is my opinion that the BOLA case in itself is further evidence that even when attacked, such a visitor would have no need to respond with violence.

Originally posted by yeti101
and i think its too late now to worry about sending messages. We have been leaking radio/tv signals for 70 years which can be detected by any ETI with sufficient technology.

While it's true that any species within 70 Light Years (approx) that is using radio/tv would detect our signals, that doesn't really speak for the rest of the Galaxy, let alone the Universe (or even the Multiverse if you are so inclined).

I find it hard to believe that any race travelling amongst the stars at faster than lights speeds would still be using the electromagnetic spectrum (which propagates at light speed) for communications purposes. In that scenario you could hand deliver a written note faster than you could beam the same information. It seems logical to me that a sufficiently advanced species (one capable of getting 'here' from 'there') would necessarily have advanced their communications capabilities as well.

So unless they were scanning our system using the electromagnetic spectrum for readings, and were within 70 light years from Earth, our System would not stand out especially from others. There is a lot more electromagnetic radiation emanating from both the Sun and Jupiter than our artificial signals can hope to compete with. They would have to be looking through a lot of noise to find our signals.

But back on topic, Yeti101, do you think the Earth should fear invasion from an aggressive species that detects Earth by detecting one of our 'Hello' signals? Or does your 'they haven't come here' opinion extend to 'they don't exist'?

-WFA

our hello signals only travel at the speed of light so they will come after our leaked signals anyway. If were talking type 2 or 3 civs they will have no problems detcting those. We also have near earth object experiments with aceribo dish sending big radar pulses. I dont think it matters how they communicate with each other any advanced ETI wishing to detect another would likely search the EM spectrum as they would be aware its one of the possible ways of communicating or detecting primitive civs . Just like we have radio & optical seti

on your question: i think a species would probably detect our planet and type of atmosphere long before they detect us. Earth has had a nice oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere for 500 million years. Anyone looking at our solar system with the right equipment must have spotted our planet has potential for life. If they have the means to come here and want to take over it would have already happened.

So no i dont think our hello signals are dangerous

i think other ETI probably do exist somehwere in the universe but are probably rare.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
on your question: i think a species would probably detect our planet and type of atmosphere long before they detect us. Earth has had a nice oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere for 500 million years. Anyone looking at our solar system with the right equipment must have spotted our planet has potential for life. If they have the means to come here and want to take over it would have already happened.

I would tend to agree, thanks for the clarification. I also agree that if they're targeting Earth for anything, it's as a world with a potential for life (as Humans know it).

Originally posted by yeti101
i think other ETI probably do exist somehwere in the universe but are probably rare.

So it seems that we agree to a point here. I'm of the opinion that life is pretty common, but since neither of us have empirical evidence to source on this point, I suppose either theory could well prove correct.

I had assumed that you were coming from the 'They don't exist therefore this conversation is irrelevent' standpoint, and I'm happy to see that I was mistaken.

I think that the Scientists who are alarmed at the prospects of broadcasting 'hello' signals should really sit down and have a conversation with one of us.

Nice to agree with you on a thread!

-WFA

I'm of the opinion that life is pretty common

me too microbial life probably very common, complex life (plants/animals) less common. Tech intelligence very rare i think.

Even if an alien culture had no desire to harm us, the mere presence of them, in our world, would probably be totally incompatible with our reality.

The idea that we would get lucky enough to run into a race that has the same values and ethics as we do is ridiculous!

And, now that I think about it, even IF they did have the same values and ethics as humans do, that very well might be even worse than some of the other scenarios.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by SumnerKagan]