Why the jump in thought?

well I just skimmed over these posts but one thing I've noticed that holds true for many types of situations, people want to take sides and adopt an "either, or" mentality....if it's this, then it can't be those other hypothesis.
Well, I think it's probably a mixture of most all the postulations concerning ufos and aliens. Some are angels, some are fallen angels, some are visitors from elsewhere in our physical universe, some are interdimensional beings (angels may be these), some are "us" from the future, and some are beings who have co-existed with us on this planet since the beginning and inhabit the nether parts of the earth.....the inside....the oceans; some of these are the fairies, gnomes and leprechauns of old. Some ufos are back engineered alien reproduction vehicles, some are piloted by beings from elsewhere in the physical universe, some are time machines, and some are the conveyances of angels, fallen and otherwise. So that's that.

Some aliens are the nephililm from the Bible who were in turn the ancient Greek, Roman and Norse gods as well the mighty men of old (the hybrids) such as Samson, Goliath, and Hercules. And of course the anunaki were the giant aliens from Nibiru. I don't think I've left anyone out. Oh and bigfoot and dolphins are aliens ....and whales. And chupacabra is an alien animal that escaped from its alien owners and now breeds in the southeastern US and Mexico. I think the Jersey Devil and Mothman were supposed the be former inhabitants of the inner earth but I don't remember.

[edit on 25-4-2008 by MsSmartypants]

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
1: Why can't our higher intelliegent scientists creat such things?

2: Why must they be from a distant galaxy and be here to observe us?

3: No doubt, there will be some dummy who will flame and spam all over it, it has to be assumed as well.

1: They can, but no one with private interest wants to give them any money.

2: You're suggesting they would ignore us, like an elephant would ignore a gnat?

Eloquent.

3: Ah, of course - anyone who disagrees with you is a dummy.

On to the reasons why they would ignore us.

Well, it wouldn't take much intelligence to realise that if there is a remarkably more advanced or at the least militarised species out there combing the stars, they probably realised a long time ago that humanity is not a threat.

We don't have anything to bargain for, perhaps that is why they ignore us.

Another reason, of course - could be that the universe is ruled by an inter-galactic race of beings who first conquered then liberated a large portion of their galaxy before exploring others, thereby providing them a somewhat neutral mindset towards other races.

You don't need to be a space alien with a brain the size of a basketball to realise that expanding ruthlessly will only lead to societal collapse.

So there we have it, one reason for why an imperialist species (type two) might ignore us - and - assuming they have better methods of hiding from our sensors than we are currently aware of, would consider it wise not to stir the hornet's nest (Once we're in the galactic perspective, we become competition for resources).

And on the other hand, a reason for why a more passive species (type three) would choose not to interrupt our struggles to at the very least exceed our very basic status as a sentient life-form by learning to set aside our differences and working for the benefit of the entire species.

Maybe then we might even attain a 'type one' civilisation in galactic perspective.

Maybe then we'll be in a position to negotiate and diplomatise from.

Well hmmm.....how to address you all??

I guess what we are really talking about here is a matter of perspective, right!?
Yes, i am ex-military and have been privy to a few pretty far out technologies, although nothing really Earth shattering once you have seen what our own Earthly physicists and the like can actually concoct. The jump in technology around the time of the German 262.....technology makes leaps, and has spikes just as everything else does. It's a trend pattern in thought processes, this has been proven over and over. But, I will concede that as I stated before, it's a matter of perspective, and statistics can be manipulated big time.

You see, although it may seem otherwise, I am not attempting to get others to go along with my thoughts here. In fact, I actually appreciate the challenge to think outside the box, no matter what the subject. So, for that I thank you all and kudos to the well thought out responses so far.

As for the 'dummy' responses, I am amazed that there aren't more yet. No, I am not self righteous or conceited either....you all know that I am talking about loud mouthed flamers and opinionated outbursts that have plagued ATS for a while now. It was and is only my intention to keep the thread on topic, non-personal, and educated (albeit personal opinions may differ).

As for my stance again, maybe there is another form of life out there??? Maybe not, and maybe just not yet that we know of??? It's my opinion, and it is professionally supported in my opinion as well, that the vast and I mean vast majority of sightings are very explainable or military in origin.

Please keep this ball rolling, I really appreciate and enjoy the opinions so far, either way the may be!

Peace, Mondo

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I can't agree about the mass production side of your thought proccess, I think it assumes that the elite are upfront and open, I think power over others is the goal, not monitary gain, at the highest levels, and keeping this stuff secret is way more power than any amount of money could ever bring, don't you think? Besides thinking the elite of the world need money is not taking into account, almost every human being, and certinly every country in the world is in debt to a very few people at the top who hold all the wealth. Nope, money they got, all of it infact, now they want the power.

Besides THAT grav drive is also known as time drive, and blackhole drive, what do you think something like that could do in the wrong hands (from thier point of view anyway) if they let the secret out everyone will want one, and every joe-shmoe taliban will be trying to swallow our solar system in the universe's newest quasar/black hole. Alternatly, imagine what you could do to history with a time drive, like makeing sure the elite never get born to desire the enslavement of all of humanity, no too dangerous for us peeons to have, we might climb off our tractors and learn something they don't like.

I do agree with you about WHY aliens might be here though, the borg might realize they aren't gathering enough data on art, love, and how fresh cookies make you feel, and think they can extract the proper data from us or Betty Crocker, or that elusive Doe Boy, thier sensors can't seem to locate.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


Not a threat? I wonder how many other species in the galaxy (much less the universe) went from barely making fire to nukes in such a short span?

What makes you assume they ignore us? Because they won't call YOU up and land by your house, or do interviews with Larry King, they are ignoreing US? If they are here at all it shows an intence intrest, considering all the other places they could be in, in the big bad galaxy. Empire expansion causeing collapse could be entirely a human condition, the borg might have no limitaions. Such small boxes you put them in.

You mis-understand Einstien to think "resources" would be a problem for a space fairing people. E=Mc2 MEANS energy equals mass, they are interchangeable. With even hot fusion comes enough energy to make any element you could ever need in almost limitless quanities. But maybe resourses refers to, like above, emotions, but then why would they need fresh suplies? Why would they need those more than once? Not like I have the answers, but I know those aren't the questions either. Not to be too harsh on you either, I have been there in my mental process as well.

reply to post by Mondogiwa


That you are not trying to desuade others is a relief, I can identify with the need for a good mental work out. Warning: mental gymnastics ahead!

When you look at how life clings to every possible crevise here on earth in a poisonus atmo (O2 is corrosive, nitro is hard on biology) and worse, on volcanic vents with zero sunlight, you begin to realize all life needs is an energy source. Mars is most likely crawling so thick they limit rover pics and up time to hide the critters walking by all day, and I can't imagine many other planets/moons in our own system that aren't crawling as well, even pluto and mercury. So compare THAT to the 300-400 billion stars in our own galaxy and the hundreds of billions of galaxies out in just THIS universe, then consider the multi-verse with infinite universes, and the thought of intelligent life NOT being here from other places begins to seem like a long shot, to me anyway, but I'm kinda wierd I geuss.

And the jump from scrapeing nukes together to grav-drive filling the skies is not on a natural curve by any stretch of the numbers. The nazis were working on grav drive instead of nukes (nazi bell experiments) so maybe not, but I think they had some help there, its just too bizare (even for methed-out nazis) to have messed with Newton so hard core all the way back then, and grav drive takes a total re-write of Newton's laws. Einstien (greatest German/Jewish mind of the time) couldn't even accept quantum physics, how could closed minded nazis think so far outside thier mental boxes? For Hitler's dence but loyal minions to have found the needle in Newton's giant hay stack is a bigger stretch for me than Aliens getting involved, considering what thier numbers must be. Also look at the huge loss of science brain power thier hatred of the Jews got them at the start, and yet they were nearly ahead of us in most technologies by war's end?

Nope, no sir, I don't like it. I might be nutz but its too far a stretch for my feeble mind. But with the disclaimer that of course anything is possible, its just not very probable. Can you eplain all UFOs and abductions and sightings and pictures, and 1st had testimonies as Earth bound tactical craft? Of course, its done here everyday, but is it probable? Well that takes a more complicated version of the Drake equation than we have time for.

Originally posted by HellHound63S
reply to post by Anti-Tyrant

 

Not a threat? I wonder how many other species in the galaxy (much less the universe) went from barely making fire to nukes in such a short span?

What makes you assume they ignore us? Because they won't call YOU up and land by your house, or do interviews with Larry King, they are ignoreing US? If they are here at all it shows an intence intrest, considering all the other places they could be in, in the big bad galaxy. Empire expansion causeing collapse could be entirely a human condition, the borg might have no limitaions. Such small boxes you put them in.

You mis-understand Einstien to think "resources" would be a problem for a space fairing people. E=Mc2 MEANS energy equals mass, they are interchangeable. With even hot fusion comes enough energy to make any element you could ever need in almost limitless quanities. But maybe resourses refers to, like above, emotions, but then why would they need fresh suplies? Why would they need those more than once? Not like I have the answers, but I know those aren't the questions either. Not to be too harsh on you either, I have been there in my mental process as well.

Then you'll excuse me if i go off in a completely different direction to you.

A sad fact of reality is that there are only so many different possibilities, and whilst it may seem like i am putting them in a box, i'm actually looking at the subject with the kind of open-mindedness one would expect of a 'sentient' specimen of any particular species.

If the alien race was sentient, in otherwords, it would most likely possess many of the same failings and dependancies that we do (with respect to Type-3 civilisations, where they have had the time to iron out their difficulties).

Anyway, The Borg did indeed have a limitation - After all, they would only be able to enslave so many different species before sooner or later they ran out of species to enslave.

The answers we currently have are too few, and in reference to your original point on human progress - Perhaps yes, we are relatively quick to develop new technologies, but that doesn't mean that there are other races out there who are not faster than us even, or that there are races out there who don't even need to be as quick as us.

There may, for example; be Races out there who have scavenged technology from the remnants of massive space-going battlefleets and reached a level of technological potency to be truly feared.

From what we've been able to see and detect from our own planet, i am under the assumption (and i acknowledge it's an assumption) that we have a small area to ourselves for the time being, and as such we should probably take advantage of this fact while we still can.

p.p.s; i didn't say we weren't a threat, i just said that they are probably ignoring us.

If their technology is so much better than ours, then their sensors are that much better too - hell, they can probably detect the how much uranium is left on this earth from another part of the bloody galaxy for all we know.

And of course, if they have experience of dealing with other space-faring civilisations, they'll have the means of evading advanced sensors.

Which ultimately could mean our rather crude methods of exploring space amount to nothing when it comes to detecting alien space craft.

Tis' certainly a thinker, that all those UFO's we see are undetectable to our sensors.

Would probably explain why the boffins sitting in their labs deny their existence - if they don't show up on the instruments, then they don't exist.



p.s; i happen to think you were being a little harsh, or at the very least ignorant of intellectual diversity.

[edit on 28-4-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

[edit on 28-4-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

Why would you attack an enemy that was unaware of your existence, after all?

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
I would like to ask a serious and pensive question to all who attend this particular forum on ATS.

Why the jump in thought to assume that any and all things that cannot be explained or put into known parameters, must be alien of a UFO (alien origin I mean)? Yes, the idea fascinates me as well, but to make the assumption that what cannot be described as alien....well, it's actually quite a fault in my opinion. Why can't our higher intelliegent scientists creat such things? Why must they be from a distant galaxy and be here to observe us?

I agree these are very good questions.

If they(the aliens) were, wouldn't we(the humans) be the proverbial ants trying to look towards the skies to understand the greater species...which in fact we probably could not even begin to understand their existence in the very first place!?

I never quite get why this is so immediately assumed we should be so different in capacity to comprehend things. If I could go back to see hunter-gatherers 60,000 years ago, I assume I'd be able to teach them (or at least some) things such as algebra and eventually calculus, to use a pc if there were one, and so on and so forth.

One way an advanced civilization would have massively advanced intelligence is that they cracked artificial intelligence (and life) and how to enhance it. It is by no means certain that being able to achive interstellar travel implies being able to achieve greater intelligence -- having greater accumulated knowledge could be enough.