Antarctic waters worry climate experts

Are we looking at the start of the " Day After Tomorrow "au.news.yahoo.com... ?

This is a cause of concern with all the talk about climate change ther is now more evidence than before that all the pieces of the puzzle will fit together and we will see what the outcome will be. We are due for another ice age!

"long enough" as in a few thousand years. Even the IPCC recognizes that. But, we all know that any movie, if it's about global warming, has to be a realistic threat, so let the scaremongering begin...

And yes, of course we are headed into a new ice age... that's what happens after interglacial periods. The Holocene Epoch is famous for 'em.

You mean, Al Gore, the creator of the Internet and global warming is wrong?

Theres this uncertainty about the climate. Its like the weather, sure theres meteorologists and simulations and all that but when it comes right down to it the weatherman isnt always right because nature does something unexpected. Is it gonna cook us wth global warming or freeze us in an ice age who knows but I think its safe to say there is a trend of instability in our climate which is destroying the ecosystems of all life on earth. Humans are the most adaptable and least affected by this growing problem so we seem to be ignoring it. Not everyone of course, theres a percentage of us that give a damn, and theres a certain amount of cultural awareness like Al Gore with his little movie etc, but really in my day to day life if I bring up global warming or suggest changes people could make like solar power etc, they roll their eyes and tell me its a bad investment and all this other nonsense. They just don't face the facts. That or they are ignorant of the facts. Either way its simply unforgiveable for an organism to be so unaware of its environment that it fails to see the danger at hand. Look at your pets, they are so in tune, so in the moment that they know when something so totally imperceptible to us like a tornado or hurricane is coming, and they get worried.

I have this feeling in me that we should be doing something. We should be migrating to areas that will be safer, away from the coastline, away from volcanoes away from fault lines, we should be undertaking massive building projects like you used to see in the beginning of the last century, We need to build an infrastructure that can survive the dark times that are fast approaching. It seems fairly obvious the elite are already doing what is necessary to ensure their own survival however it is unforgiveable that the general population is kept mostly in the dark. Its a cold heartless move to prepare to survive knowing millions are doomed to die a horrible death, more horrible than Katrina because it will be a cannibal holocaust so nightmarish that it makes the Mad Max movies look optomistic.

If I had unlimited resources, I would hire every minimum wage slave currently doing trivial pointless thankless jobs and I would train them and I would use them as a workforce to build some kind of city in the mountains with a subteranean nuclear powered farm, nuclear power plant which powers the lights which shine on the crops. stuff like that could keep us alive when 99.9 percent of all the rest of life on earth dies in the next 100 years. People will be working at mcdonalds untill doomsday and wonder why there isnt any food or shelter, because they are brainwashed unmotivated zombies that never think outside the box. In ancient times if your society failed so completely you could just run away into the woods and find a way to survive living off the land which was rich and vibrant. Nowadays there isnt a forest or an abundance of wildlife for us to go to. Those Mcdonalds workers could have been building a solar powered bombshelter greenhouse and lived, instead they will end up cannibals and die violently.

Ohhhhhhhhh, God that was good!

I'm breathless ... do you do that all the time at home?



[edit on 20-4-2008 by AirWitch]

Once again my motives simply fly over my opponents' heads...

First... take it easy with the alarmism. The Permian-Triassic extinction event managed to wipe out nearly 95% of life, and this was with a meteor, extreme ocean acidification, and extreme ice ages/drying of the land. Global warming, per se, at the extent we claim to have observed it, will not manage the same; in fact, likely it will help, as biodiverse areas spread northwards/southwards.

Second... certainly environments and habitats are at risk, I never will dispute this fact. But AGW, if it exists at all, is a threat eclipsed by deforestation, bottom trawling, direct persecution, etcetera regarding its ability to cause harm. Global warming catastrophism distracts people from real problems happening right now; not to mention lining its leaders' pockets.

Thirdly... and again, global warming has happened in the past few thousand years, two periods that spring to mind are the Medieval Warm Period and the Holocene Maximum, that were both 1) warmer than now and 2) failed to extinguish any known forms of life.

Fourthly... it's so easy to talk about change when one lives in a developed country and hardly has to give up any of one's possessions or luxuries to "change". Try telling the same to, for instance, an African who is barely able to feed his family, let alone sit at a computer or buy an iPod.

So basically... alarmism doesn't help anyone. Except perhaps Al Gore and western governments, who make massive amounts of green.

Originally posted by SlyCM (work)
Once again my motives simply fly over my opponents' heads...

First... take it easy with the alarmism. The Permian-Triassic extinction event managed to wipe out nearly 95% of life, and this was with a meteor, extreme ocean acidification, and extreme ice ages/drying of the land. Global warming, per se, at the extent we claim to have observed it, will not manage the same; in fact, likely it will help, as biodiverse areas spread northwards/southwards.

Wow, you know SO little about natural systems. Your statement opened my eyes like a slap across the face. Yes, there will be a minute amount of poleward vegetation shifts, BUT, just because it is more hospitable N or S due to temperature, plants can't simple move on in.

You see plant communities are HIGHLY attuned to the places they live in, beyond the ambient temperature they are dependent on Soil Type, Exposure, Humidity, Nutrient Types, Altitude, on and on and on and on. Temperature is just ONE of MANY ingredients that make a plant or community of plants survive.

Second... certainly environments and habitats are at risk, I never will dispute this fact. But AGW, if it exists at all, is a threat eclipsed by deforestation, bottom trawling, direct persecution, etcetera regarding its ability to cause harm. Global warming catastrophism distracts people from real problems happening right now; not to mention lining its leaders' pockets.

Um, your right there are lots of other problems atm, but please notice you are trying to dim the lights on how humans may be impacting the atmosphere and there fore the climate. Who is making money off global warming? How are our leaders lining their pockets? I hear this all the time but I still have seen no examples.

Thirdly... and again, global warming has happened in the past few thousand years, two periods that spring to mind are the Medieval Warm Period and the Holocene Maximum, that were both 1) warmer than now and 2) failed to extinguish any known forms of life.

Well humans were also not around to so drastically change the face of the earth and the atmosphere it lives in.

Fourthly... it's so easy to talk about change when one lives in a developed country and hardly has to give up any of one's possessions or luxuries to "change".

Try telling the same to, for instance, an African who is barely able to feed his family, let alone sit at a computer or buy an iPod.

Thank god for that because it is the DEVELOPED countries that NEED to do the most changing.

So basically... alarmism doesn't help anyone. Except perhaps Al Gore and western governments, who make massive amounts of green.

Ok I can see Al Gore making lot s of money off AIT, but the government? I hear it all the time would you mind producing the evidence?

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Animal]

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Animal]

Wow, you know SO little about natural systems. Your statement opened my eyes like a slap across the face. Yes, there will be a minute amount of poleward vegetation shifts, BUT, just because it is more hospitable N or S due to temperature, plants can't simple move on in.

Ad hominem attacks do not help your point. As a matter of fact I was reffering not only to rainforests, which will expand, but also to coral reefs, which will expand. Also:

www.heartland.org...

www.stanford.edu...

www.cato.org...

www.spiegel.de...

www.nationalcenter.org...

www.wired.com...

You see plant communities are HIGHLY attuned to the places they live in, beyond the ambient temperature they are dependent on Soil Type, Exposure, Humidity, Nutrient Types, Altitude, on and on and on and on. Temperature is just ONE of MANY ingredients that make a plant or community of plants survive.

CO2 is as well, and increased CO2 will fuel increased plant growth.

Um, your right there are lots of other problems atm, but please notice you are trying to dim the lights on how humans may be impacting the atmosphere and there fore the climate. Who is making money off global warming? How are our leaders lining their pockets? I hear this all the time but I still have seen no examples.

Carbon taxes (huge profit to be made there), global warming insurance scams, investment in certain irresponsible "green" technologies...

Well humans were also not around to so drastically change the face of the earth and the atmosphere it lives in.

Most certainly. Which is why we need to forget about this global warming catastrophism and work on censervation and reducing real pollution (C02 is not real pollution).

Thank god for that because it is the DEVELOPED countries that NEED to do the most changing.

Fair enough, but it is the developing countries that are trying to change, and that is being prevented. I personally am not comfortable with seeing millions of peple starve for a marginally less impact on global temperatures.

Forgot to mention, if global warming is bad, global cooling is a nightmare. Holocene ice ages are associated with mass drying, disappearance of rainforests, and extreme desertification. Which would you prefer?

[edit on 20-4-2008 by SlyCM (work)]

ok man, first off i think we agree more than we disagree and for that you get a

let me say i am sorry for the ad hom attack, you dont deserve it.

still i must say, as a person who knows a LOT more about plants than most people, there will be no natural pole-ward migration of plant communities. it just is not possible.

i also must say that i do not buy the line that GW is all about $$

I personally view AGW as plausible, but yes, as alluded to before, I care much, much more of direct conservation.

By the way, I just got a job at a garden centre (!!!) so hopefully I can learn more, as I confess to being an ignorant, yet enthusiastic, botanist.

Breaking NEWS!!!

There is no such thing as Global warming.

I repeat....there is no such thing as global warming.

Now, back to your regular broadcasting.

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True, true... seeing as no warming has occurred since 1998...

And yet, the media ignores this. The media, much of which is government run, ignores this. To me, that just sets off alarm bells. Hence my mistrust, the stereotype of ATS'ers.

Though, I think small warmings caused by man are plausible, as I wrote above. But, I forgot to point out, it has yet to be demonstrated that they are. My general conclusion for now is that, it's probably natural, or perhaps slightly augmented by man.

More breaking news!!!!!!

www.edmontonsun.com...


"
Vendors and presenters from various eco-friendly groups, including Bullfrog Power, CO2 Reduction Edmonton and the local solar energy society, crammed into a lone tent in Hawrelak Park after a blizzard forced them to abandon their original locations.

Organizers crammed over 40 groups in a space that would normally be occupied by half that number. Presenters' booths were initially planned to have been spread out between at least five tents, with far larger displays. "

there is no "real" evidence that humans are causing a warming of any sort

and even if there is a warming were is it starting from? maybe its coming from a recent cooling

Global Warming Called off:

1. www.youtube.com...
2. www.youtube.com...
3. www.youtube.com...
4. www.youtube.com...
5. www.youtube.com...